For people who aren't familiar with my situation, I am the FWW and Mr Zonie and I have been in recovery for about seven months now. I have recognized that I need to set up boundries when it comes to men, and I avoid situations that could potentially get me into trouble. I don't go to bars alone or with girlfriends, I don't have friendships with men, I keep my conversations with men very neutral so that I don't give them opportunities to to fill my EN for converstation. I've written my plan down and Zonie and I are on the same page.

Mr Z got a call from an old buddy and he invited him to go to Vegas in December for their annual "get together" weekend. So, he asked me if it was ok.

Now I know I can trust him, but what do you think of this? Do you think this is right? I asked him how he would feel if a GF of mine asked me to go to Vegas for the weekend. He just laughed and said "no way!"

I told him it was ok with me if he went, but a part of me kind of resents the double standard. On the other hand, I am totally the one who screwed up.

What are your thoughts?

-MrsZ

Knowing the kind of resentment that I often feel, I'm not so sure that I would be completely affair-proof as a BS.

I think it would be a very bad idea to send me to Las Vegas alone.

In fact, it WOULD be a very bad idea, if I were to be triggered while I was there, and if I were to be angry at my H at the same time.

A very bad combination would be to add a little alcohol.


So I could see a calamity in Las Vegas for myself, with a trigger, a little anger, a drink, and a man showing me too much attention at just the right moment.

Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad idea.


JMHO.

SB

I'm sure few MBers will agree with me, but you are correct when you say that you are the one that screwed up. I am a BS. Not an WS. Not even a FWS or a FFWS. I am not only trustworthy, I have earned it and maintained it. There is no need for any restrictions on me because my personal boundaries are strong enough - I simply don't do stuff I'm not supposed to. Really, why should I have restrictions? My vows meant something and I adhered to them.

You, on the other hand, are a WS. You couldn't even keep your vows. You have proven this. Though it is admirable that you are working to improve your boundaries and committing yourself to your marriage, you have shown that you are capable of breaking those vows. So yes, a double standard does apply.

Now, all that said I don't think I would personally feel comfortable going to Vegas with a bunch of friends - certainly not of they were single. It is likely a trip I would turn down, based on my own personal boundaries. That's not to say I wouldn't turn down a different trip - say for example, the Kentucky Derby. But this one just doesn't appeal to me as much. But your BS may actually love Vegas and be thrilled for the opportunity to go.

Disclaimer: As a BS who aborted recovery attempts early on, my view may be a little off what is normally seen here. I must say posts like this confirm that decision - I'm not sure I could live in a police-state type of marriage whether I'm the one doing the policing or being policed. When I think back to the golden days of my M, it was the lack of policing that made it so grand - it unfortunately never occured to me that he was lying when he took those vows.

It is not a double standard until he breaks his vows. He has proven he is trustworthy.

IMO there isn't really a double-standard at work here. You "know" you can trust him (translation: he hasn't broken your trust before to the point where you cannot trust his judgment in that situation), so you are "ok" with him going. He apparently has not reached a point where he can trust your judgment in the same situation, so he is NOT "ok" with you doing the same.

But here's the thing - if there IS a part of you that resents the situation, then that's something you should have discussed with him, BEFORE committing to your "ok" for him to go. That's what POJA is all about - respectfully negotiating a solution to a situation that you both are enthusiastic about. I might be wrong, but it doesn't sound like much negotiation happened here, as you weren't open and honest about what was really on your mind.

Finally, IMO M'd people shouldn't go jaunting off to places like Las Vegas on "buddy trips" and leaving their spouses behind, period. I'd be uncomfortable with my FWW doing that, and I know she'd feel the same way about me doing it as well. We're supposed to be choosing to enjoy our recreation time together, not with other people.

Although I am the BS, while Flick was writing out his EP's I thought then I should have something similar.
While it is true I did not have the A, the way our marriage was at the time there was no real reason why it was him that had the A.
It depends on what you personally think of yourself. i wouldnt go especially if as SB said I was angry. RA's happen.
Mostly I wouldnt go because of the early stage of recovery and the fact that at this stage nearly all our RC is with each other to prevent outside love deposists.

Lil

Generally speaking, and in the context that seems to have been presented here, I agree with you. However, a trustworthy spouse should be able to go anywhere they want. Do they want to should be the real question. I mentioned the KY Derby in my post because I actually did go there with friends. I'm a big horse racing fan, Wstbx was/is not. He didn't care to go but for me it was an opportunity of a lifetime so I went. Again, I am solid in my boundaries and there is/was no reason not to trust me. If it had been some sort of major computer gizmo event thingy that he wanted to go to (at the time before I knew he was a WS), I would have wished him a great time. For all we know, MrZonie is a crack blackjack player or something - maybe this his his thing. Chances are it's not, and it's just a buddy trip. But if it is and this would be the ultimate experience of his life - he's done nothing to prohibit himself from going and MrsZonie should be happy for him. I don't think that's the case but we really don't know.

MiM,
Actually, I did tell him my feelings about my resentment, so he does know I'm not enthusiastically agreeing to it. He hasn't committed to the trip either and we probably need to talk about it more.

I'm uncomfortable about it for a number of reasons, one is, in the past these trips involved strip clubs. He told me about it though, so he didn't lie about anything. At least that's how he justified it. Of course, if he goes this year, some restrictions will have to apply.

The other reason I'm uncomfortable about it is don't want him to be gone all weekend, spending time with his buddy instead of me!

MrsZ.

Strip clubs are for guys who can't get blanked under normal circumstance, so I've always found them to be quite sad, theres
no chance of emotional attachment.

Besides he has quite a bit of mileage to catch up with you. It's a weekend vs 2.5 years, oy.

God Bless
NJ

He shouldn't go, unless you are both happy with him going. Hey, why don't you plan to go to Las Vegas together?



Then he definitely should not go. I can foresee a situation where he agrees to "restrictions" with you, only to be convinced later by his "buddy" to relax those restrictions a bit. Don't underestimate the power of peer pressure.



Did you share this thought with him? He might actually prefer to spend the time with you.

You're right, we really need to discuss this further and negotiate something. I just went along with it because I thought my feelings were unjustified.

His buddy, by the way, has been married a short time and just celebrated the birth of his baby girl. I think if he and Mr Z do go to Vegas, they will be playing Blackjack and talking about being dads.

There is something about the crazy city of Las Vegas that makes the most level headed tourist do crazy things that they would never do at home. I personally think it's a bad idea for someone who is recovering from infidelity to come to Las Vegas on a guys weekend. Hell I think it's bad for anyone in any type of recovery to come to Las Vegas for a weekend of fun. There are way to many temptations here. Las Vegas has it all.

If you had posted that he was going to say Dallas TX for a football game I would have thought go for it but Las Vegas is just not good.

He should not be going for all the reasons you gave, MrsZonie. You do not enthusiastically agree and it is not good for your marriage. Spending time apart like this is an invitation to an affair. Your H is not a single man, but a married man; he should act like it.

It doesn't matter if you trust him now, you shouldn't trust him if he observes SLOPPY boundaries like this.

Ignoring your feelings like this is what leads to RESENTMENT, MsZonie. If he is doing something or proposing doing something that is a lovebuster, it is up to you to tell him. It is up to you to protect your lovebank.

Sacrifice like this leads to RESENTMENT and a feeling of entitlement. When you engage in extreme giving, your taker will come out with a VENGENCE.

Doesn't Dr. Harley recommend that married couples NEVER spend a night apart? His reasoning is that we ALL are hard-wired for an affair.

I don't think there is ANY problem with you not wanting him to go.

Seems to me like you are interested in protecting your marriage and THAT sounds like recovery to me.

WH2LE

IMO, choosing to keep feelings like that from your H, no matter how "unjustified" you think them to be, is not something that should be done if you want to encourage intimacy in an M, particularly post-recovery, as that's likely something your H really *wants* you to do. The trick is to find a way to share those feelings with your spouse in a caring and respectful manner, so you don't end up in one of those emotionally-draining discussions (you know what I'm talking about, right? ).

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other-- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.



Radical honesty is a necessary ingredient in a marriage that's recovering. Radical honesty is not a punishment because of the affair. It is the way a healthy marriage should operate. You need to tell your husband the truth about how you feel.

When my wife and I counseled with the Harley's, it was stressed that BOTH of us carried the responsibility to protect the other. Your husband needs to protect the marriage in the same way that you do. Going to strip bars does not protect your marriage. Going to Vegas with a buddy does not protect your marriage.

Since husband's buddy is married, why not make it a couples weekend. Is there something they can't do in the presence of their wives???

Dr. Harley goes as far as to say that married couples should
not even travel without each other. Married people should act like married people, not taking separate vacations. This is the way healthy marriages operate.

Your husband's double standard (no way could YOU go to Vegas with a GF), is punishment. In recovery, he needs to be willing to live by the same rules of protection he expects you to live by.

My question is how often do you and hubby go somewhere like Las Vegas for a weekend of fun?

If you are not comfortable then BH should not go. The same goes for you.

Even more important, Vegas is not a place to without a spouse. Unless your single.

You shouldn't be taking trips away from each other, especially post recovery...and what is good enough for you is good enough for your husband.

Reach a solution with POJA. I bet you your DH would prefer to spend time with you anyway. If I were he, I would be very paranoid about what you're up to in my absence

best

GH31