She doesn't look much like June to me!!

I know..lots more FABULOUS!!

lots more!

mimi-

wow- your words hit me like a ton of bricks! i know i need to control this LB of angry outbursts- but i am having a really hard time. i feel so wounded by my husband's rejection of me for other women; his rejection of me for his ultimate mistress- his job; and his total rejection of me for our whole marriage- that i am having a really hard time seeing him in a different light.

now- when he acts even in the slightest bit similar to his old self- i over-react. what can i do to change this behavior??

my brain keeps telling me that my H is a creep who has lied and cheated on me for 12 years, and that i was so stupid for so long to not know it- so i dont want to be stupid again.

i dont know what to do- i want to believe that he can change and my life with him could actually work- but if i let myself believe it- then i could feel the most tremendous hurt again of my life- when he told me about his 12 affairs for the last 12 yearss.

so - i guess the anger is really a cover for hurt. under the anger is always hurt- and i dont know how to feel loved from him . so...

what do i tell myself when i am about to have an angry outubrst? how do i stop it - it happens so fast.

like tonight- we decided to go out on a date at 8:30. at 8:35 he was still getting dressed.

he doesnt make our date night feel special for me- he doesnt make it seem like he wants to date me again- and create a new marriage- i got mad again. i yelled and acted crazy.

HELP!

mimi- how do you control it???
sf

melody-

you are so right- i want to not LB on him- i want to change-but all i am is afraid of being hurt again- afraid of getting my hopes up and having him be the same.

i know that we should go on a MB weekend. the next one that we could make, isnt until the middle of march. we/i cant make it that long.

i want to purchase the home study course to use until march. and then go on the weekend too.

is my angry outbursts and LB just a bad habit? is it serving some purpose? am i testing him to see how committed he really is?

i want to make it better between us- but i think i want it to be hard for him .... for him to prove how much he wants me.

i think you are right- i need to unleash here.

is there any way to work out these feelings and come out the other side to a great marriage?

SF

fiori-

i agree that it doesnt make sense to expect a human being to not explode with emotion when confronted with the ultimate betrayal a person can experience- an affair.

i guess as you said- after the initial shock- we need to be super calm. i can be that way EXCEPT when he does anything inconsiderate, unsensitive or anything like his old self.

i know in my head what is right- but i am having a really hard time changing my actions.

sf

The KEY is to make this ONLY about YOU...I wish I could SHOUT this at YOU. It has to be YOUR WORK...not about CHANGING HIM..not at all about HIM.

It's about CHANGHING YOUR MINDSET..telling YOURSELF that YOU will be NO ONE'S VICTIM. YOU can make the CHOICE to no longer be a VICTIM. YOU can make the CHOICE to become a SURVIVOR..a STRONG WOMAN who comes out of this VICTORIOUS with YOURSELF..IN CHARGE..of YOUR LIFE...

Don't give HIM the POWER of WOUNDING YOU any longer..

Tell yourself a zillion times a day how you did not deserve this..it's about WORKING ON YOUR OWN SELF-ESTEEM...

FOCUS ON YOURSELF...FOCUS ON YOURSELF..

Do YOU want to be a PERSON who exhibits such ANGRY OUTBURSTS and LOSES CONTROL? I made a decision that I NO LONGER WANTED TO BE SUCH A PERSON..with ANYONE..my HUSBAND or ANYONE..even my children..I used to YELL AND SCREAM at them..like a CRAZY WOMAN..NO LONGER...

A SURVIVOR says..I WILL PREVAIL even it is "HARD"..this is what I hear you saying. Give me an out because it is "HARD". That is what I had to come to grips with. LIFE is HARD. I have to learn to SURVIVE the TRIALS and TRIBULATIONS that will come my way.

You think this is ALL? You have more in store. Thankfully, you, like me, had the STUFF to hit you later in life.

There are others today struggling with MUCH WORSE, SF.

BE THANKFUL for YOUR BLESSINGS..FOCUS ON YOUR BLESSINGS despite your TRIALS and TRIBULATIONS.

What you may be noticing about this post is that I believe it is ALL ABOUT..CHANGING YOUR MINDSET...CONTROL OVER YOUR MIND...When you have thoughts about YOUR HUSBAND with one of his women..SHAKE THAT THOUGHT OUT OF YOUR HEAD and FOCUS ON YOURSELF and how YOU are working towards CHANGING to be the person that YOU WANT TO BE!!

If HE does not join YOUR BANDWAGON, it will be HIS LOSS!!


You see here? You have focused on HIM and whether or not HE will CHANGE. FOCUS ON YOUR OWN CHANGE!! NOT HIM!! If you focus on HIM, you will continually feel POWERLESS, frustrated and ANGRY.


A couple of things here...Most importantly, THE FIRST STEP is to learn to LOVE YOURSELF. This is YOUR WORK...NOT HIS..your self-esteem is understandably wounded from this but the IMPORTANT LEARNING is that you are WORTHY despite HIS CHOICES to HURT YOU LIKE THIS. Work on ways that YOU may want to CHANGE YOURSELF to be the PERSON that YOU want to be...Don't rely on HIM for your sense of LOVE for YOURSELF. Make sense?

The other part is the HURT behind the ANGER. I'm EXACTLY like that, too. I was just recently speaking to my husband about that. When I am HURT, it comes across as ANGER. Others don't read it as DESPAIR. I don't evidence what looks like DESPAIR.

I still need work on learning to SPEAK TO MY HURT. It's like I don't want to ADMIT to it. My husband even suggested that I learn to SPEAK SOFTLY and then he will notice and HEAR. WOW!!


So given what I've said above...it is UP to YOU to have a SPECIAL DATE NIGHT..not HIM..what can YOU do to make the night SPECIAL??? YOUR WORK would have been on YOUR OUTFIT, for example..what YOU can CONTROL..He can't be what YOU want him to be. You will FEEL FRUSTRATED and ANGRY because YOU ARE OUT OF CONTROL..and, of course, then ACTED OUT OF CONTROL...

YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF!!

And once you CHANGE into this person who has developed PERSONAL POWER..which was the work I did right here on this FORUM some years ago...YOU WILL BE SOOOOO ATTRACTIVE TO YOUR HUSBAND..I guarantee you..and if HE is NOT ATTRACTED to YOU and IF he does not fall madly in love with you again..it will be HIS LOSS!!

Join with me in FABULOSITY....Become a GODDESS SUNFLOWER!!

sunflower, did you know about any other affairs before this?

Oh, Mel reminded me by her post....

SF:

12 different women? 12 different affairs? That's A LOT of HURT. You must be MORTALLY WOUNDED and shouldn't expect yourself to personally recover from this easily if at all. I could understand this being very, very difficult for YOU, taking a lot of PERSONAL WORK, lasting a long, long time.

I ADMIRE your WILLINGNESS to take this on...I'm not sure I could do it.

As far as I know, my H has had only one affair.

oh mimi-

you definitley hit the nail on the head with me and when you pointed it out over and over again in my post- it became obvious to me.

i knom my whole life that i have had no sense of self and relied on my H's approval to give me my self esteem. since d-day - and much inner work- i have learned how wrong this is .

i KNOW everything you say is true and i agree totally. and i have come a long, long way.

BEFORE - i never thought i was deserving of anything- thought his flirting with other women in front of me was ok- that i was insecure and should stop being jealous; thought i couldnt get through a day if he wasnt nice to me; on and on and on.

NOW-i am learning to love myself and see how deserving i am.

I have improved so much- if you only knew- BUT i know obviously that still have a way to go.

i KNOW that i can do it! i know that i can stop and take a deep breath when i want to yell , and learn to express my feelings in a positive way.

i know i can focus entirely on ME- instead of focusing so much on my marriage- but i also know that i am taking small steps, but moving in the right direction.

so tell me specifics- i did have the nice outfit and did my hair and makeup real nice. YET- when he wasnt ready on time - i told him i didnt want to go out with him.

then when he tried to blame me for his not being ready - "he was giving me my space to get ready"....THATS when i lost it and started yelling.

i will no longer accept his blaming me for his own shortocmings.

i then told him that i was going out by myself and he said - "i'm ready now".

i started to go to the car,and he said he was totally responsible and he should have started getting ready earlier and that it wouldnt happen again.

mimi- HOW would YOU have handled this situation? should i have ignored his lateness? his uneagerness?

SF

mimi-

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS LAST POST- IT MADE ME HAVE A HUGE SMILE. i remember reading your signature line for the first time and loving the word fabulosity.

PLEASE - you said that you made this journey yourself many years ago on this board...so now ...can you help me along this same journed?????????????

i really DO want to join you in fabulosity!! just tell me more of the practical HOWS.

i know all the whys and i agree totally. just give me more of the HOWS.

I WILL BECOME THAT GODDESS AND JOIN YOU IN FABLULOSITY!!!

SF THE GODDESS

melody-

we had been married for 31 years. for the last 5 of them i suspected him of affairs. i had 2 clear things that i found but he denied them and swore on our children's lives that he was telling the truth.

i called several private investigators- but then chickened out. i knew that if i found out he was cheating - that i would give him an ultimatum and i was afraid that he would not choose me.

i was PERTIFIED of being alone, divorced, and without him. so - i just threw myself into raising and loving my 3 kids- and walked around in a cloud for many years.

all this time we were in therapy and he lied there too.

i just didnt feel happy and didnt know how to get happy. i had very low self esteem and didnt know how to love myself.

then about 15 months ago- he lost his job- and then he lost WHO he was. he had no identity outside his job.

then he over 2 weeks- confessed all of his affairs.

the extent of his affairs are HUGE- and as our therapist says now - it is a mountain of chaos.

just a quick summary - he had 7 different affairs with work colleagues - mostly with women who worked for him. he had 5 affairs with women in our community and 2 were with my close friends. the longest affair he had was with my "so called best freind". they had sex in our bed, in our car; she and her family were in my house many times for meals, and family parties. it si difficult to understand how this went on for 8 years.

of course- this made me doubt my ability to judge people's character and to trust life.

so - my h had really no reason to lie now that he has told me so much.

i do see that i have worked so much on myself since d-day. an for the first time - i can see myself beginning to love myself. this is totally new for me.

anyway- was this what you were asking ??

SF- The Goddess

mimi-
please dont say "if i recover at all". i totally determined to not let this define me- to NOT let this destroy me- but to make this my wake up call to learn to love me and to change my life and make myself so much happier.

i DO agree that when i hear of women whose husbands had one affair, or only internet porn, or only a ONS- i say - i wish i only had that to get over.

ist kind of like when a person has alot of kids and thinks that people with one or two kids- dont have a clue of how to raise many kids.

thats how i feel about people with one affair- although it has been explained to me that the number of affairs my H had, and that many were overlapping , shows that he was not really atached to any of them.

this does give me comfort.

everytime a woman stopped being a 24/7 admiration societ and ego booster, he moved on to another woman. every time they wanted something back from him- he ran to another one.

so maybe many affairs are better in a way.

idk, SF the G

WHY was yor response that you didn't want to go?? I don't get it.


MAYBE..he didn't GET IT either...

THEN..it's not CLEAR why this led to YELLING...

I REALLY am not GETTING this, SF...

I'm missing something...

You see, I've learned to encourage people, including MY HUSBAND to be CLEAR with me and I'm CLEAR with him and others...

If it bothered me if he was late, I WOULD TELL HIM..still go..but TELL HIM...if he "BLAMED" me as you say your husband did (BUT he didn't say "It's your fault"..which would have been CLEAR)... THEN I would have TOLD HIM that it BOTHERED ME to be "blamed"...I would not have YELLED. I would have TOLD him..

It SEEMS that YOU two are not COMMUNICATING CLEARLY, IMO...

And I hope that I have communicated THIS clearly...LOL...


THEN, what did you say?


How do you KNOW that his LATENESS was due to his UNEAGERNESS? Are you SURE that this was not a DJ? I go by what my H TELLS ME. I would have asked him: "Why are you LATE?", expecting him to tell me THE TRUTH. I buy what he says NOW when I ask him such questions. If I don't believe him, I tell him so. I then would say: "For some reason (or whatever reason if I have one), I don't believe you because..."...NO DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS...

Learned this the hard way right HERE... from my MB friend LA...

Passing this on to YOU....

WONDERFUL!!


I see what you are saying. I didn't think of it that way.


I don't know if I'd say that...DIFFERENT but not BETTER...it's ALL HORRENDOUS...

Yep, my H WAS definitely "IN LOVE" with the other woman..
BUT..she was a ONE-WOMAN EGO-BOOSTING MACHINE...

Wierd..I can ALMOST laugh about it NOW...

mimi-
you are right again. i over-reacted.

when he isnt ready, i interpret that as a rejection of me.

i finally sat down calmly with him and explained how important dating is now to me. i feel like i need him to pursue me, as he did to other women for so many years, to show me that he is really committed. he seems to understand now.

i realize that when i speak calmly to him, then he is able to "get" what i mean. when i scream and go crazy- he just tunes out- as i do too.

i also know that i understandably, do not trust anything he says. i expect that what he is telling me is a lie.

how did you change that?

i personaly think that it will just take time. i will need to see over and over that he is truthful.

i know i blame myself for being so trusting before when he was lying daily to me and i DONT want to be in that same position again.

SF

mimi-
about the many affairs - i agree

my H admitted that the reason he had so many, was because as soon as one woman wanted to really get to know him or expect things of him, (like in a real relationship), he would drop her, or not see her for awhile- and go to a different woman.

it seems they were interchangeable.

he admitted to me that he was afraid to be emotionally close with me during our marriage for many reasons, mostly- he didnt know how and he was afraid that if i knew the real him, i would reject him.

so he distanced himself from me- got over-involved in work, body-building, friends, and finally - other women.

all the while - i was chasing him to be close to me.

now i know that only I can LOVE me first- not look to him to feel good about myself.

my H was definitely not "in love" with any of them. one of them was a 65 year old grandma!!

SF

S-55,

Checking in to find you doing better!

Good!!

You are in such good hands with Mimi. She's been giving you good advice, to find what you have inside yourself, to love yourself, to have strength of self.

You do have all these things.

There is one certain thing in this world, that you control yourself.


You asked a question that brings up this story I posted about ... wow... two years ago? Is it that long? I can't find it. So I will post it again, and try again to tell it. I can never tell it the same way twice, so if you find it and I didn't say it the same way, then perhaps in the telling for you it was meant to be THIS way for YOU. Oh well. Your question is, "How do I let him back into my heart?", which is sort of "How do I begin to start over" or "How do I move from this place to the new place, with what I have, with this burden I carry?"

It isn't easy. Nope. But if you choose to do this, then maybe you have to have a way to put some of the burden down. There is an old story that talks to this problem, of putting burdens down, especially the burdens of others.


There were three monks walking on a very long journey. They were all very tired, and the trail was rocky and troublesome. The weather had been very bad, with rainstorms along the way. The three monks came to a river which was swollen with the runoff from the rain, and they had to cross the river.

As the three monks began to wade into the treacherous waters, they realized that there was a woman and her young son trapped in the rapidly moving river. Now, the monks had taken many vows in their religion, one of them being that they would never touch a woman. They were not sure of what they should do, but they knew that to touch the woman would be to dishonor their vows. So two of the monks went about rescuing the young boy and getting him to shore.

When the two of them looked around, they saw the other monk right behind them, carrying the woman!

He put the woman down, waded back into the water, and proceeded on his journey. The other two monks quickly followed behind him, astounded that he had broken his vows. The whispered as they crossed the river, and then talked quietly to one another along the path as they climbed up the other side on the trail.

About one mile farther up the path, the monk who had touched the woman looked back at the other two, who looked away from him. The two were ashamed of him because he had broken his vows. Two miles up the path, they were still talking about his touching the woman. Three miles up, the first monk stopped and turned around to talk to them.

He asked them what was wrong. "You broke your vows!" they declared. "You touched that woman," they told him.

"Brothers," the first monk said calmly, "I put that woman down three miles ago. But brothers, it is YOU who still carry her."



You see, at some point, we begin to carry the wrongs that others put upon us. Either we don't forgive them, or we focus on them, or we just do not form a plan for dealing with them. I'm not saying here that we need to "move on". What I am saying is that we need to draw a line for ourselves and know when the time is done for talking about what happened (past tense), and when the time is for what we need to DO for ourselves, how to do it, when we are going to do it, and exactly how we are going to do it.

And that we are not going to carry the burden of the other person in the process. We need to recognize that focusing on the perpetrator is not going to get us there.


When I was raped, I spent more than 15 years focusing on the perpetrators. It got me nowhere. I turned it inward, made myself believe I did something wrong. I made myself angry, hateful, spiteful, and gained


not one step toward recovery.


As soon as I focused on what I could control - me - I moved forward at the speed of light.


The speed of light took me onward and upward.

I put that woman down three miles back. It was so easy....once I could SEE THAT.


SB

OH MY GOODNESS!!