Where does that leave the BS?

What if life and the sanctity of a faithful M was the only thing you ever had to hold onto, and it was wisked away in the blink of an eye.

Should R even be a goal? What about the restoration of your own heart? Do you even care anymore about what your WS even thinks, when there has been zero effort to even consider your broken heart?

I think I'm quite done with all of this. It's been over 6 years since DDay and I feel like I'd rather surrender my life to God, than ever surrender to another person again.

I refuse to make myself vunerable to another person again. That includes my FWW.

I can"t take that anymore. I will not allow this to happen again

I don't care anymore. My FWW and I are very good friends, but we have not had SF more then twice in the last year. There is a major wall between us. It's called incomplete and unrealistic recovery.

I DON'T WANT TO LOVE HER ANYMORE!!!!!!

But, I am hopelessly in love with her and I hate it!!!

I think of Bob Pure and feel like we are in the same boat.

If this is to discouraging to newbies, I will delete.

So sorry for the pessimism.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Shinethrough, I'm so sorry you are having a hard time of things today. I have alwys loved reading your insightful posts and know that you are a strong person.

I totally get not having SF and how that can drive you crazy. One thing that caught my eye.

I would ask you to consider that this is what G-d has wanted all along from us, to surrender to him and let him lead us to his plans.

He doesn't want us surrendering to a person. They are only human.

I don't know if that helps or not, but I feel this pain inside of you.

Thanks Queenie,

Yeah, the thing about surrendering, is that it was always misplaced.

Took me a whole lifetime to figure that out.

Think I get it now!!

All blesiings,
Jerry

You are welcome Shine,

I struggle with surrender and last nights' topic at my AA meeting was how G-d is working in my life.

I believe it was Mark who told me a long time ago during one of my struggling moments, that the reason we are here is because G-d wants to have a personaly relationship with US.

And today I believe that to be true, he will keep putting obstacles and pain into our lives until we truly surrender ourselves to him and seek him for the answers in our life.

One painful lesson for sure, but the alternative is painful anyways.

Jerry,

From reading your posts over the past 15 months or so, I get the impression that you are a quality and very intelligent man, who certainly doesn't deserve to be in this quandry 6 years out.

We all have to look ourselves in the mirror and judge OURSELVES, and I believe that you have the qualities within yourself to make an honest self-evaluation.

One thing that comes through loud and clear here at MB on a daily basis is that not all M's are worth saving and not all WW's are worth keeping, but we each have to make that evaluation for ourselves and live with the consequences of that decision.

Keep in mind that I have previously experienced divorce and came out of it MUCH better on this side, even considering the events that brought me here, which may color my perspective. I also view my life opportunities as finite, and I view it as tragic to "waste" any of those opportunities on a situation that has proven itself to be less than fulfilling over the long term.

Obviously, we all have our own unique situations and circumstances, and any M will have normal peaks and valleys, but you seem to have put in the effort, weathered those normal highs and lows, and still find yourself unsatisfied with your lot.

I'm sure you know inside what direction is in your best interests. I hope you find the strength and confidence to seek the "peace" that comes from acting on whatever your "gut" is telling you.

Good Luck!!!

Jerry my friend...I am sorry you are in this place yet again.

I am not one to try and put polish on a turd. Not all marriages...not all BS's can recover from this terror.

You remind me a bit of my dad. He endured and stayed...and I really never figured out why. One day he came to me and said he wished he had left years earlier and that he now felt too old to go.

Don't let that happen to you Jerry. Allow yourself to grasp happiness again. You deserve a woman that allows you to be the happy man that you want to be. Some wounds are fatal and the fact that you are still suffering from this old wound speaks volumes to me.

Jerry, what will it take for you to be happy? Can you imagine being happy without her? Yes, surrender your life to God....but do NOT use that as a reason to stay in a bad and loveless marriage.

I wish you peace and happiness. YOU deserve it. Now.

Queenie, Myrev, and MEDC,

Thank you for your replies.

In light of what this forum is and stands for, I feel I should probably delete this thread, as it serves no good purpose for those who are desperaterly trying to save their M's.

I am not some young chick who has a whole lot of life left in front of them. I will retire in the coming year and at that time, I will have been M'd for over 40 years.

I do appreciate your honest and thoughtful answer to a Q I probably should have never posed in the first place. I don't know what I was thinking.

Myrev:

Aptly put and truthful. Thank you for not blowing smoke up my posterior. You have never been one to do that. Thank you.

Medc:

Thank you as well, but i'm approaching 40 years of M and I don't know how to live otherwise. Perhaps I'm like your father .
I will find a way to be happy, I'm sure it lies outside of myself, and sure it will probably happen in retirement, next year.

I hope to voluntare as much as as I can to the truly needy and helplless folks who have fallen through the cracks of life.

If you think I should delete this post, please let me know!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Personally I don't agree with deleting this thread.

You have been here for people and helped them walk through the hardest time in their life. You are struggling with what is going on in your life. One way to learn to love myself is to help someone who is hurting, so you are helping me to recover.

Yes, there are so many of us desparate, desiring to recover our M, but your insight, your experiences, your struggles help us understand what we might be facing or walking through.

You have every right to do what you are going to do, but we respect you, we know that whatever decisions you come to are not taken or done lightly.

For myself, please keep posting.

Thanks Queenie,

but this need to be somewhere other than GQII.

I don't know what I was thinking. This serves no good purpose.

I will ask the mods to move or remove this. ugh...

All Blessings,
Jerry

Ok, I understand....

Jerry--I don't know a lot of details about your story. I only know that you give good and respected advice on MB. My husband and I have been married 37 years, 15 whole minutes of it (maybe) happy! OK, that was an exaggeration, but not a whole lot. I'm not going anywhere at this point. If I were going to, I should've done it a long time ago. I've come to the conclusion that happiness, contentment, and the ability to survive on something even remotely resembling an even keel, is entirely up to me. And how well I handle everything being up to me depends entirely on how fully surrendered I am to God. I've looked at life--in my 60 years--not from both sides, but from every which way to Sunday, and the only thing that works for me is surrender.

If you're going to stay, somewhere you're going to have to find a sense of loving detachment from your spouse's roller coaster...at least if your circumstances have ANY resemblance to mine. I don't care if I bought the ticket. I still don't have to take the ride!

God bless you as you try to find the best way to live out your "golden years." :RollieEyes: All that means to me is that they just don't make gold like they used to!

Jerry, I agree with the others that you shouldn't delete this thread. We have many folks who are experiencing the same thing as you.

Would your wife go to a Marriage Builders weekend? Maybe if Dr Harley could get ahold of you two, he could turn this around.

MelodyLane and thndrnltng,

Thanks for your replies, I do truly appreciate what both of you have to say.

thndrnltng, I appreciate that you and I are probalbly about the same age. I will be 59 in another couple of months, and don't feel like I'm on the same sitch as a lot of other folks here.

Things change and there is a different prospective when you get older. Life is no longer about beggining again. It's about living with what you have.

I will do the honorable thing to the end. I can't envision doing otherwise!!!

God Bless the both of you,

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi Mel,

Thanks for your imput.


I've got a much better chance of winning the power ball lottery than this ever happening.

So it will be as it will be.

That's my lot in the rest of my life.

Every day, I learn not to care so much anymore.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

With no disrespect intended, I recall you had challenges with severe depression a few months ago and I think you said your meds were needing to be re-evaluated. Not sure if anyone else has suggested it but could that be the case now?

At any rate, thank you for not asking the mods to delete your thread. For as many as it might discourage, there are probably twice as many who will benefit from hearing your challenges and then seeing potential answers.

I don't have any answers, but I will tell you that I know the feeling that you're wasting your life but it's better than starting over again.

When I chose to start over again (at 53), my WH knew I was serious ~~~ because I was.

Why?

The answer might be in your post:

Envision....I envisioned myself reinventing my life after God's purpose and design.

I read verses like I am more than a conqueror,and I can do all things through Christ, Greater is He that is in me, Write the vision, make it plain so that when the herald reads it he can run with it.....and My people perish because of a lack of knowledge....call things which be not as though they were...and many more.

It was the enemy that tried to hold me down.

The miraculous part is that my WH decided he wanted to change his life, too. His choice. But it only came after I made my decision and let him know I meant business.

Hang in there, Jerry. You're such a blessing to so many, so when you've overcome this temporary setback you'll be even stronger than you were before.

Praying for you,
Ace

hmmm.... Jeryy, then I guess I'd say that you have your "sight" fixed on the "wrong" thing and might want to reevaluate everything in the context of who we do have to "hold onto," and it's not our spouse or marriage.

But given your current thoughts, I don't suppose you'd care to explore that area right now.




"R," as in Recovery; "R" as in Recovered; "R" as in Relationship?

What GOAL?

And does the achievement of a "goal" result in no new goals, and end to "trying" and "doing" and "growing" and "changing" and "becoming more and more conformed to the likeness of Christ?"

Jerry, where is your wife's "relationship" with Christ at this time?

Understand, Jerry, that Christ "gave us" (BS's) the right to divorce due our spouse's adultery. God is VERY familiar with adultery and the impact it has. It COST God the life of Jesus just to be able to OFFER forgiveness and reconciliation with Him, the ability to HAVE and BUILD a relationship with HIM.

But God also knows that WE are NOT God. He knows our "limitations" and the need for a marriage centered in God, not in ourselves. "Centered" does NOT mean that OUR needs are not important; it relates to the Purpose of Marriage, the Roles of Spouses; the Image of a "triune" relationship between God, Husband, and Wife.




Surrendering to God is a "good thing," Jerry.

But using that to "justify" disobedience to God in other areas is not a "good thing."

As a Christian, Jerry, surrendering your life to God MEANS surrendering YOUR will to GOD's will, especially when you "don't feel like it."

And you are NOT asked to "surrender" to another person, you are commanded to "love your neighbor as yourself." That is the second "Greatest Commandment." It is not a "suggestion," it is a command to all of us, but especially to those who have chosen to surrender their life and their will TO God, to place themselves "in submission to the LORD."




Jerry, THAT is what "Boundaries" are for. You DO NOT allow someone to trample on your boundaries without consequences. If you maintain biblically based boundaries, and not "selfish only" oriented boundaries, you will NOT have to "worry about" this idea (a false idea if I am understanding your concept of being "vulnerable") "making yourself vulnerable to another person again.

The ONLY way to avoid such "vulnerability," and the attendant possibility of being hurt, is to NOT love. But that is a direct violation of God's commands to us and is NOT having a "surrendered life to God."




Well, it MIGHT be called that. But it sure sounds more like selfishness, maybe guilt, maybe lack of surrender to God, maybe disobedience to God's commands.

But I don't want to speculate further as I am "not up to speed" on what your wife has, or has not, being doing in recovery and in her own relationship with God.




Possibly. It certainly sounds as though there IS a "relationship with God" issue in both of your marriages, to say nothing of an issue with "following God" in humble surrender to Him. That is the "struggle" that most, if not all, of us have at one point or another. When you "couple" all of that with the REALITY that recovery timelines are different for a WS and a BS and that the "issues" each struggles with are different, THIS FEELING that you are expressing is NORMAL, and unfortunately, not uncommon to all BS's who want to recover their marriages. It is one of the major reasons WHY I think recovery without God is almost impossible.

But WITH God, ALL things are possible. The question most often is "are WE willing to trust God to DO the 'impossible,' and how long are we willing to trust God to be faithful to Romans 8:28."




Jerry, having had several times during my own recovery where I was "pessimistic" and ready to "toss in the towel," there is no need to apologize for feeling pessimistic.

Recovery IS hard. It is NOT "smooth." It is NOT "constantly improving." It IS a roller coaster. It is Patience. It is Endurance. It is a GOAL of "recovered" that may be a "marathon journey," not a quick sprint.

And it's good for "newbies" to know that it takes COMMITMENT to the LONG HAUL because there WILL BE times when you feel as though you just want to "chuck it all" and divorce.

It is obvious that your wife is NOT where you think she should be in her recovery or in recovering her relationship with you, and perhaps with God too.

What IS IT, besides the sex part (not to minimize its importance to a marriage), that you see "not enough progress in?"

God bless.

Jerry this is a very interesting thread and please do not delete it. Sorry this is going to be long and maybe some of you will not even read it but it helps me if nothing else just to type it out.

I am not nearly as far along in my recovery as you or Bob Pure, but I still feel the same as you and he.

Here are my thoughts on my M anyway, be they “wrong or right” this is how I see things.

My H and I had a “great” M for a really long time (approx 20 years). We BOTH let life get in the way and we BOTH forgot to meet each others EN for a while (approx 2 years). My H had an A because he has “weak boundaries” coupled with his ENs not being met in the same way they had been for a long time, and then add an OW who was in “pursuit” of him and BAM, recipe for A.

So I Plan A’d and Plan B’d him (not nearly as long as a lot I have seen on here, from D-Day to when he came home was Jan 19, 2007-Feb 5, 2007) and he knew he had made a mistake and wanted to recover our M.

Now since then I feel like I have made a lot of changes in myself (changes that needed to be made), my H has been very remorseful for his actions, he has been transparent with his time and phone, he shows me that he loves me, all and all things are like they were when we had a “great” M, so why do I still feel like I am “so done”.

For me, I think it is because my H has not really changed at all. Like I said before he has tried to make amends for his A, but his “actions” for lack of a better word have not changed at all.

He still has “weak boundaries” and does not feel he needs to change them. He says “I have been friendly since we have been together and nothing happened until then” and when I say that it makes me feel like “how will I know it will not happen again?’ he will say “because I know me and I know I won’t let it happen again”.

Well guess what that is what he said when talking about the A after D-day. “I still can not believe I did that, it was so unlike me”. He feels there is no need for EP’s or basically to change himself at all because we had such a “great” M for so long that as long as we continue to meet each others ENs then all is “fine” in the world.

Well for me that just is not enough. I feel that he more or less “got away scott free” with his A. He has not changed anything about himself and does not feel the need to. Does this mean he just does not “get it”? Or maybe I am expecting to much? I dunno, but that is where I am right now and have been for quite a while now.

This sounds like the wrong kind of surrendering.

If you wait around hoping someone else will make you happy you will have a very long wait.

Resignation is a poor life choice. I hope you can change that.

Hi Jerry

I've watched so many marriages overtake mine in recovery to a genuinely happy place - it used to be motivating, but now I just feel envious.

I have tried to ascertain what the differences are between THEIR marriages and mine. I've made a few notes.

1) The FWS really earns their "F".
I see wayward spouses voluntarily crawl back to the marriage on their bellies such is the extent of their repentance and genuineness of their intention to recover.

No SHRED of entitlement remains, no concentration on the less wonderful parts of their marriage or BS hitherto.

Couples with a willing BS that there is powerful pixie dust to recover from this. I never had this.

2) Sexual histories of marriages very different
Squid and I were lifelong monogamous until her A. I struggle to think of another marriage like that which achieved an enviable recovery from an entangled PA. Loss of lifelong monogamy is still an absolutely huge issue for me, despite many folks telling me it should not be. I see that as an additional complicating factor in successful recovery also.

3)Introspective FWS
Where FWS really undergo a journey of self discovery , but not self-indulgently. They want to find out what was broken in them and fix it.

See already, Jerry I'm three strikes-and-out by that criteria.

My answer to you r question is - I really dunno. I think despite them being "shibboleths" on these boards and in pop-psychology circles we really DO have to manage the tension between acceptance and settling.

As we cannot have the M we want, can we settle for the marriage we HAVE to avoid the many ramifications of a divorce ?

Thats where I wrestle every day.

Where I really empathise mate is where you say


Me too...me too.

All blessings

Shinethrough
I would like to thank you for posting this. Your post caused me to reflect that life is not a fairy tale, and not every story ends with "and they all lived happily ever after"

This post has helped me. I hear the discouraged voice, of someone who has tried to "make it better". You have helped me realize there is no magic formula. We are left to struggle on this earth dealing with the imperfections of humanity. And at times those imperfections are wrought with pain and sorrow.

In my own struggle, with my broken relationship with my wife, I wonder what the future will hold. This post has helped me more than you may realize. First off we band together to try and offer comfort and support to each other, drawing from the painful experiences that drove us here. Secondly (and thank you all for lovingly pointing out the direction in which I need to look even though you were posting to Shinethrough). It confirms I need to focus on Christ, because if I place my hope in humans to do the right thing I am almost guaranteed to be disappointed.

This is my first post in response to you, but my heart goes out to you, as I do understand the pain and the roller coaster you ride. Your post has touched me deeply, it is so real. There are no guarantees. Relationships are risky. You have me looking into myself, asking if I am up for the challenge. I am asking myself what do I do if my relationship is not restored? What do I do if it is restored and it is fraught with anguish? Oh Lord what do I do?

Should your post be deleted? For what purpose? For sharing your heart? For expressing your humanity, your doubts? You just had the courage to share. You provoked me to prayer, for you, for me, for those that remain silent yet suffer like you expressed.

I am encouraged by those that love you and respond that you should not give up, but change your focus. To look to the One who can heal our pain and remove our sorrow. This is the truth of what happened on the cross. I am forced to examine if I have truly received it. All because you had the courage to post.

Perhaps God is not done with us yet.

Blessings to you.