Greetings MB'ers:

I posted originally on the Plan A/B forum but it was suggested I move over here - and things have changed a bit so starting over.

I'm 51, married for 6 1/2 years, second marriage. Husband is 49, 2nd marriage. He waited 12 years between first and second one to me, I waited 5 years. He had an affair at the end of his first marriage. My first one ended after 10 years with an affair that began while H was relapsing into prescription drug abuse. This time, this H did the same thing but relapsing into alcohol (not that it matters).

I travel all the time (2 1/2 weeks/month) for work, he said he "wasn't strong enough" to withstand the separations (mind you, this is the same guy who voluntarily went to Qatar for 10 months at the beginning of current war), and started drinking again. I had confronted him about the drinking last year and asked (more than once) that he seek treatment or enter a 12 step program - his excuse was that it would jepoardize his top secret clearance upon which his current job depends. That's only sorta true; he works for a large company and could have easily found another "white" job there if he wanted treatment.

Long story short, he started spending alot of time with a co-worker, entered into an EA in November, went PA in January, I found out in July when her H called me. Unfortunately it took me 8 weeks to stop crying and start sleeping again, which happened when I headed to Al-Anon (had been there before - I think I just needed to be reminded - helped me stabilize within first 3 meetings.) I confronted him on the very first day; he admitted some of it. I told him I wanted to work on marriage. He initially said he wanted to move past the affair and asked "how much of a beating I am gonna take about this" - I don't do revenge so was surprised until I realized that was guilt talking - but then changed his mind about moving forward because (he said) he realized how much I was in pain and didn't want to make promises he couldn't keep (!!).

He agreed to counseling "to see if he wanted to work on the marriage". Agreed to the MC's condition that he terminate all contact with the OW - managed that for about 7 days. I had bonded with the OW's H and he started feeding me info. I confronted him in treatment, he denied it, denied it again the next week, finally admitted it in a separate session with the MC and the next week asked me for a divorce.

Unfortunately it took me 8 weeks from the first time I heard about it to stop crying and start sleeping again, which happened when I headed to Al-Anon (had been there before - I think I just needed to be reminded - helped me stabilize within first 3 meetings.) But I didn't get my feet under me for long enough that I did the whole "I love you" a million times thing, promised to change, etc. - i.e., took responsibility for the damn affair. A counselor who was in Al-Anon with me recommended MB. I got SAA, read it, read the boards, started Plan A around the first of September. Have done pretty well; lost my temper once when being baited, and on another occasion set very strong limits about his involving our 22-month old granddaughter in his affair (taking her and the OW to the zoo), which really ticked him off. Asked him also to consider alchohol treatment since at this time he is addicted to both the affair and relapsing on the alcohol - they're inversely related, the more he sees her the less he drinks but the bottom line is that he's "under the influence" the whole time - and sometimes from both "substances".

Lessee. I was tested for STDs and turns out I have one (non-fatal); the affair has been outed by him to his four children when he decided to ask for a divorce and I told him I would not play nice; he had to tell them himself and accept responsibility, or I would - so he did. They are between 20 and 26 years of age now, but they went through this with him when they were little - I've worked (with him) for 8 years to rebuild this family and now they're in even worse shape). He also told his parents - they rolled in on him and now he's cut them off entirely. His 21 year old daughter has stopped speaking to him, his 25 year old daughter is speaking to him but extremely alientated, his 20 year old son (who still lives with us) is looking for a way to move out, and the 26 year old is barely in touch (plus has his hands full with our granddaughter now).

I exposed the affair to his boss (nothing will happen) and to her boss (nothing will happen)- they both work for the same company which does not do anything in these cases. Her H exposed it to their pastor and their kids. I exposed it to his former CO (Navy Reserve) who I know well and he talked to the current CO - but nothing will happen as he is on his way out anyway.

I've talked twice with Steve Harvey - most recently last week because the situation here is really deteriorating with increasing degree of emotional abuse. We have no children of our own and because of that Steve said he usually recommends a longer Plan A - but in this case agreed I need to get out. So I'm going on Nov. 9, have written a Plan B letter, have the intermediaries in place, and am relocating to the city where I do most of my business. I am also filing for divorce effective Monday next. I don't want to do this AT ALL, but from a legal point of view have no choice. I own the company that I work for, he has rights to it and plans to go after it, and I can't let him control the divorce process under those conditions.

I want to save the marriage, and have been crystal clear with him that my filing is a legal procedure only - however, it's clear he's going to take the ball and run with it.

Steve recommended I use the forums for support - so here I am. H is playing all kinds of games - today told me he's planning to make improvements to the house without telling me while in the process of the divorce (house is jointly owned) and planning to move separate property (my personal antiques, crystal, china, etc.) to facilitate that work - without my permission, without telling me - I just happened to stumble into it. All the rest of the emotional s--t is here too - accusing me of undermining his relationship with his children (9 months of adultery and lying didn't do that, I have, in three conversations no less!) - accusing me of playing games, accusing me of whatever. He is extremely volatile emotionally, unpredictable, by turns nasty and neutral. He has withdrawn, won't really let me meet any ENs at this point, and is adamant that he wants a divorce.

So, I'm thinking about all this in terms of years, not months or weeks, and planning to institute Plan B (if I don't have to delay a week or so to move my furniture out) - very possibly for the rest of my life.

I appreciate you reading this. Its long. I also appreciate any comments, questions, input, 2 X 4's - whatever. That can only help me think about this without being stuck inside my own head and I know I'm going to need the support over the next weeks/months. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum, you'll find plenty of sympathetic support.

You've counselled with the Harley's and you have a plan. Now protect yourself, and your business. You initiate the D process, you call the shots. Do not be talked down.

-JKT

Thanks. Being talked down is not likely to be a problem; it's keeping myself from spinning up and going all out on the divorce thing that's the problem. I asked him about the effect of doing home improvements while the house is in play during a divorce - his comment was that he considers that _his_ equity and expects to get it back. I can't decide which is weirder - his arrogant assumption that he (and OW) will end up in the house at the end, his assumption that he can expend funds on the house during the divorce that he has already denied me (to help me move), claiming that "he couldn't afford it", or his belief that he can make improvements to the house before the divorce is final that somehow wouldn't be a part of the divorce process because of course I would agree to his point of view.

All part of FOG babble, I guess. But it spun me up - I called the attorney today and asked if we could change the filing to claim adultery right now (went into it as a no-fault divorce but have the option to change in this state.) Of course, that amounts to quitting the marriage - he'll be enraged and (based on his first marriage/divorce) will never forgive me - but I don't know right now if I want this one back.

I think I'm going to tell the attorney to get the very best deal he can for me, stop worrying about being "fair" to H, and go dark. If the adultery claim route is the best way, then so be it. If we can stop short of that (possibly by threatening to drop the bomb if he doesn't cooperate), then that's fine too. But in any case I have no intention of walking out of this with less than I had when I came in if I can possibly help it.

This isn't about trying to "break" him. It's about trying to protect me.

Does anyone have any thoughts about playing the adultery card in the divorce process? Have others out there done it? What effect(s) did it have on trying to recover the marriage?

Thanks.

Have you looked into legal separation as opposed to divorce precedings for the present time? That would give you a little bit of breathing room to make sure that everything is safe, while not doing something that you are completely against.

I did look into it, and proposed it. He rejected it. The bottom line here is that he is looking for a "get out of jail free" - and I do mean free - card, to conduct his affair in the open.

It is a great idea, though. Thanks. I wish we could have worked it.

I went ahead and filed Friday ...and decided that I was just going to move the furniture no matter what it took - but have also decided to wait until I'm assured that a contract we're after has been awarded (this is a small contract but would pay the moving bill).

I'm also afraid I blew my "Plan A" right at the end - he came in this morning and asked if I wanted breakfast. He hasn't done anything like that in two months (has been emotionally abusive off and on) and after I said yes and thanked him, he left and I started bawling. (Silently) It's funny how kindnesses can set you off when you've built up your emotional defenses to deal with anger and accusations. Anyway, I stopped crying just as he came back through the door with a plate of scrambled eggs and he saw me. So much for being upbeat!!

But tonight he made me dinner, too - and was halfway civil even though he saw his adultery partner today. I think it's dawning on him that Tuesday morning may be the last time we see each other (I'm on a business trip, come back Friday after he's left for the weekend, and pack up my car and leave before he gets back.) I made it a point to thank him for making dinner, but then walked out of the room quick before I started crying again.

I think I'm definitely ready for Plan B.

I think that he didn't think you had the guts to actually leave him. Now he's scared. He doesn't want divorced; then he'd lose him monetary gravy train and possibly his house. So now that he sees you're serious, he's doing what so many guys do when they finally face facts, and doing the stuff he should have been doing all along.

If he continues, you can always make some changes in your relationship that he has to accept and DO. Such as IC, AA, NC letter...IMO this will be the one time you hold the cards and he may be willing to negotiate. If you still want him.

I upped the ante today and told him I'd decided to move everything I own (separate property) out this weekend. It's a wee bit of an inconvenience for him -he's got to move some books and take some stuff out a file cabinet. Not a big deal. Is very upset that I'm moving when he's not here. Demanded to know when he's going to be served - I'm "leaving town and there's no proof we're even going to get divorced" (I shoulda thought of that one BEFORE I signed!!) - wants to see the papers before I leave, I'm sure, and will have a fit when he sees I've asked for maintenance and lawyers' fees. The maintenance isn't alimony - it's for health insurance in case I get caught in transition between contracts and a full-time job - and lawyers' fees aren't for my initial retainer - I'll invoke that condition only if H really tries to screw around with terms - but he'll see the papers and think the worst, of course.

Anyway I went to the store tonight and while gone H ran out to see OW. He's still there as I type. I hope you're right, CatPerson - but in any case the MB method is working well enough for me right now that I'm sticking to my guns and will cry later. I'm planning to leave the PBL on Sunday for him on my way out the door - going to leave it on his bed along with a "I love you" Teddy Bear I gave him a few years ago and a lovely shadow box we got as a wedding present that has the following from 1 Corinthians 13:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

As for whether I still want him - depends. I want him if he's willing to work at it; ain't interested if not.

I do have a question for the seasoned vets out there.

My PBL has two conditions - (1) the usual, stop the affair and take stringent measures never to see her again, and (2) commit to alcohol recovery work, long-term. H claims he entered the affair because my travel left him lonely and he began drinking alot more - started up with OW to avoid completely falling off the wagon (was in inpatient treatment for alcoholism in 1996). I've expressed my very real regret for not recognizing how much the travel was hurting him but draw the line at accepting responsibility either for the affair or for his refusal to do real recovery work. H is too high-risk as a partner if he doesn't agree to do both, IMHO.

So, here's the question. Last we talked about it (2 months ago) OW didn't know his alcohol history. I'm thinking about sending her a copy of the letter so she knows I'm still out there and still commited to him - but am a little concerned because I'm "outing" his alcohol issues if she doesn't know about them. Don't get me wrong - I'm not protecting either of them...my question is whether doing so will just increase the likelihood that I'll never see him again because he will be even more angry. Also is there any kind of ethical issue involved in "outing" his alcoholism?

I'm too close to this to see it clearly - help would be appreciated.

Is there anyone else you can expose to? Does he have parents left? Brothers and sisters? Best friends? They can probably have the most effect on him. You exposed, but apparently the people you exposed to were not strong enough deterrents for him or her. Ask the OWH who else he can expose to, also.

An update - moved out on Nov. 9 and started Plan B. Wrote the PBL and left it for him. He ignored me for most of the move but then came out to the driveway to see me as I was getting into the car to leave, to inquire as to whether I was taking the suitcase we usually hand back and forth for business trips (yes) and telling me he wanted the file cabinent of his that I use for a nightstand in Houston sent back to him. I mumbled something about figuring out a way to get it back to him.

The strangest look crossed his face then - pity, maybe - regret - I don't know. When I saw it I was really afraid that I was going to burst into tears so I said "good luck" but couldn't look at him. He said "you too" with definite tenderness in his voice and I turned and got into my car and drove away. The only contact since was through one of my intermediaries - I sent him a message that she and I rewrote to appear that she had written it, advising him of the status of the divorce filing (there was a snafu he needed to clear up on his end or else I wouldn't have sent even this message.) It was very "just the facts" in tone. He has since remedied the snafu so the divorce papers were served last week.

I'm sorry now that I said good luck - I planned just to turn and walk away.

I did spend some time thinking about who else to reveal to - but one of the consequences of being with someone who is emotionally isolated is that there just aren't that many folks who can really affect him, other than family. There really aren't any close friends - his best friend was killed in 2003 and he has not ever really recovered. The OWexH did expose to both of their kids but there wasn't apparently much of an impact. I have intentionally not followed up since I left.

I was OK for the first two weeks after the move but started falling apart again a few days ago. I cry every day. My business' finance is a disaster because of the divorce; I can't get a loan necessary to manage payroll for a huge (1.2M) contract we just got, because the divorce prevents me from listing any assets. I had warned him of this and asked that we hold off on the divorce until this was settled but it was clear he was going to proceed, and I couldn't let him control the process, so filed myself. The company may shut down unless I can get 10 friends to put 10K each into an escrow account as a guarantee on a line of credit. It's very frustrating - and depressing. I busted my [censored] for 5 years - and apparently lost my marriage - to build the company to this point (for _us_) and now may lose it all because of the worst credit crunch since the Great Depression. I feel like everything is slipping away from me - job, career, family, marriage, home. I'm just so SAD.

The up side is that I'm staying busy as possible, and I have friends who are supportive. I'm in the States and have a place to go for Thanksgiving and one of my stepdaughters is coming to see me a couple of days afterward, staying for a long weekend.

Anyway, I'm trying not to listen to popular music (although "My Immortal" just surfaced in a Dr. Who video someone sent me a link to, and that set me off for an hour this morning). Trying to focus on classical and on work - eating better now and planning to start working out again this afternoon. (We'll see if I make it.)

I've been through a lot in my life - alcoholic father, psychotic mother, first marriage that ended this same way (but I wasn't fully engaged by the time it did), no children and lost a baby at 5 1/2 months the last time I tried - but this feels like something's really broken inside. I can only relate it to losing the baby - don't think it hurts quite like that but really do wonder if I'm going to be able to heal this time...when does it get to be so much that a person can't quite get back - just fakes it for the rest of their life?

I don't mind faking it for now - we all do that - and I see the value in it. I could just really use some feedback telling me that it does get better, that we do heal...because I don't ever expect him to come back - this Plan B truly is about me and moving forward. Right now it's just about treading water, and sometimes just barely.

Should have added - one other "good" thing - none of his kids would come to see him for Thanksgiving, although he invited them. The one who lives with him is going to see his mother elsewhere. They're pretty upset with him; oldest daughter (25; the one coming here) is having fights with him over all this, youngest (21) won't return any calls or texts, youngest son (20)is probably the closest to him right now because he lives there and is trying to get along, and oldest son (26)is working on his own train wreck of a relationship so is preoccupied.

The OW will probably end up spending a good part of Thanksgiving weekend with him under these circumstances - none of his kids would have tolerated her, had they been at the house - but don't really know and won't be asking about it. I have to admit that my hope is that he is lonely enough on Thanksgiving Day itself to think about all of it - but my expectation is that he won't.