hey there, I have lurked for some time but have never posted before. I have been thoroughly Plan Aing my WW for 6 months now and have gone to Plan B. All intermediaries are in place and there is no need for WW and I to have any contact.

One poster on another thread mentioned that Plan B has a 5% success rate. Is this true? Would love to hear from any vets about this.

I know it's for me but how often does a dark Plan B bring the WS back? - curious more than anything.

I don't really care about the M any more but needed to get away from the drama, chaos and lying in the whole sitch.
thanks,
TK

I think Plan A is about 15% and Plan B is less - 5% sounds right.

You sound good. Stay strong. T have any hope you have to remain pitch DARK.

so there's a 95% chance that I'll get divorced and a 95% chance that her affair will end.

OK...I might proceed straight to Plan D as I am kinda ambivalent about the M anyways

Kurgan,

As far as plan b goes Big is right you have to stay totally dark.

Myself I was a bad plan b'er and it just made things worse for me I broke it myself numerous times by that time I was pretty much done with it all and breaking plan b just brought all the drama back.

so for your own sanity stick to it. I wish you the best and just know life is so much better out of the drama.

you will recover with or without her. I promise you that..

Happyinokla

Seriously! 5% Are you guys sure?

It hardly seems worth the effort-- I seriously think it has to be a better return that that!

Well- T-K - At least the drama is gone.

I have never read in the Harley's articles on percentages being given for the success for plan's A or B.

I only heard low percentages being given for affairs lasting more than two years, and that affairriages, where affair partners marry, usually do not last.

To bad you never posted here for some venting of your plan A tactics, or plan b.

Following the Harley's does not guarantee sucess. It only greatly improves your chances for success. Without knowing how to gather evidence, to use exposure, plan A & B, etc... only pretty much means a BS will most likely not be able to save their marriage.

If finding and using MB saves only five out of ten marriages. That means a lot of marriage are still lost. Which sounds bad until you realize that many more marriges will fail when MB is not used.

If not finding and using MB means that only one or two out of ten marriages are saved.

Every one wants to here they have nine out of ten shot at success. Every thing you can do to improve has to be worth the effort.

THE NATURE OF AFFAIRS
I have done a lot of research on this topic by reading Dr. Harley, Dr. Frank Pittman, Dr. Shirley Glass, Dr. Gary Chapman, Michele Wiener-Davis (divorcebusting.com) and others. I have come to the conclusion that, while there are things the BS can do/not do that improve the chance of the WS seeking reconciliation, by and large it is up to the WS and is in their hands and the odds are not very good.

One exception is the case of "accidental infidelity" (Dr. Pittman's term) in which the WS has a one-nighter or short-term whirlwind weekend/business trip romance with someone they have little to no contact with (past and future) with in their lives. These A's seem to be more about pure lust, sexual excitement, and temporary spontaneous self-satisfaction than they do about chronic behavior or emotional attachment. [The classic illustration of this is the affair Michael Douglas had with Glenn Close in the movie "Fatal Attraction". They had an opportunistic "weekender" and he immediately confessed and (tried) to break it off.] In these situations, the WS has little/no emotional connection to the OP and is otherwise committed to his/her marriage--they are VERY salvageable.

In the case of the "Philandering Affairee", the WS (usually the man) chronically cheats, has likely done so before, will likely do so again, and simply is not someone who respects marriage as anything more than a temporary social/financial arrangement. Not only are these marriages likely doomed (unless 2 philanderers marry each other in an 'open' arrangement), the BS probably doesn't even want to recover the M even if the WS were willing.

The most common affair situation presented here on MB.com (and easily the most vexing, damaging, and unsuccessful) is the "Romantic Affair". In this situation the WS has "fallen out of love" with the BS and "fallen in love" with the OP. The WS is usually an otherwise loyal, committed, and upright person who has never strayed before. To the BS (and often many other "innocent observers"), the WS has "fallen off the deep end" and changed in profound and inexplicable ways. It feels/seems as though the WS has been abducted by aliens and a new personna has taken over their body and mind. The Romantic Infidel has romantic characteristics ranging from mild (a mystical belief and pull that "feelings" are all that matter, everything else is secondary) to 'hopeless' (people who are just "in love with being in love"). The RI (most WS on MB.com) is consumed by their feelings for the OP and will therefore sacrifice everything they once held dear, ignore all logic and "red flags" in viewing the OP, and do virtually anything, no matter how dangerous and degrading to their values & standards, to maintain the A with the OP. In this euphoric "in love" state, the A is virtually impossible to break--the feelings are too strong and sensible arguements are ignored or dismissed. The only way it can end at this stage is if the OP breaks it off completely (moves away, cuts off all contact, etc.)

The romantic WS must avoid or minimize the guilt they feel for having the A and causing so much pain so they LIE, DENY, CONCEAL, DECEIVE, and WHITEWASH. They rationalize and justify the A (in their own mind and to others) by SCAPEGOATING the BS--re-writing the marital history to make it seem abysmal, accentuating the BS's shortcomings (while ignoring those of the OP), and blaming the BS for "forcing" them into a situation of their choice. They seek to assauge their guilt and gain the validation of others.

"I love you, but I'm not in love with you"
"God wants me to be happy"
"I have been unhappy in our M for many years"
"I can't help how I feel"
"I can't get my feelings back (for the BS)"
"Me and (OP) are soulmates and BFF" .... etc.

The irony is that romantics who betray their spouses (i.e. their REAL LOVE) are in an emotionally vulnerable state--needy, desperate for attention/affirmation/affection, depressed, lonely inside, and highly illogical. They don't have their normal personal boundaries up and lack the discernment that helped them recognize what what is/was so special and attractive about their S in the first place. Because they are in this "easy pickins" state, they are easy prey for affair-partners they would NEVER show interets in under healthy circumstances (users, gold-diggers, derelicts, "bad catches", etc.) They ALMOST ALWAYS affair with someone vastly different and incompatible with themselves and someone way beneath them and their BS. So, you see these WS taking up with OP who are vastly older/younger, major steps down on the socio-economic/academic/intellectual scale, married themselves (often more than once), little in common socially, vastly different moral values, etc. In short, they cheat with the LOSERS, HOMEWRECKERS, BETRAYERS, PARENTAL MISFITS, DRUGGIES, DEAD-ENDERS, UGGLIES, etc.

The point is that these A's are based on fantasy not reality, the emotional high of "being in love" rather than the stability of shared experiences, backgrounds, goals, values, interests, and respect.

Next: why affairs almost almost always "fail to go the distance"

So once a romantic affair is underway, the chances of the marriage recovering are remote...ok i might just go to Plan D then...why wait. Not too convinced i want to be married to her now after everything she has put me through...

Whether you want to Plan D or not is up to you.

If you are open to reconciliation, I would figure it is going to be long haul (unless OM dumps her) before she may be open to the possibility.

The ironic thing is, when the fantasy dies out and the affair ends, the WS will usually approach the BS for a recncilliation. Unfortunately much damage has been done by then and the BS has likely moved on OR the WS is unwilling to do the work to recover OR they move on to another new OP in search of that "feeling" once again.

The 2 years mark is usually as long as most romantic affairs last - after that the affair chemicals have worn off. This is one reason Dr Harley says to go into a dark plan B for 2 years because by then the affair will have ended and the BS will have preserved maybe enough love for the WS so that reconcilliation may be possible.

SDCWman, thank you so much for that posting. It's been almost 2 1/2 years that WH and crack ho have been at it, and they still seem to be going strong. I should know this stuff intuitively, but reading what you wrote, just helps me so much more to keep moving on.

Let go and Let G-d work on him.

thank you again

One of the best summaries of what usually happens( my guess 90-95%)of the M's seen on these pages!

BTW: Plan B works 100% of the time. Read and understand the principles and purpose of Plan B. Again from my time here, I would estimate that only about 1-5% of BS's that "claim" to be in Plan B are truly in Plan B.

This definitely true. After the fantasy uphoria wears off (all caused by measureable changes in brain chemistry esp. phenylethylamine), the WS almost always approaches/re-contacts the BS in some way. They may overtly request reconciliation or may "test the waters" indirectly to see if the BS is willing. Whether or nor reconciliation occurs depends on the BS's emotional availability (they may have moved on or become seriously involved with someone new by then), the WS's willingness to see things clearly, and whether the WS is indeed a "hopeless romantic"--who just seeks a new "in love" experience with someone brand new.

WHY AFFAIRS USUALLY FAIL

A's are entered into as a flight of escape from neediness, difficulties, depression, and lonliness. They often begin during periods of stress or change in one's life (on the job, moving, at home, with kids, changes in health status, death of a loved one, etc.) They are fantasies masquerading as reality. "Falling in love" serves to alleviate pain and substitute for healthier, more challenging responses to the difficulties the WS is facing. The A becomes an addiction--a "high" that is very difficult for the WS to resist indulging in. Ironically, the more manifestly incompatible and "different" (usually different in very bad ways) the OP is, the greater the addictive pull--it serves to make the OP all the more "new and exciting" ... and dangerous. These red flags are ignored or glossed over ("opposites attract!"--one of the great fallacies of the romantic affairee) in the euphoric mental state engulfing the WS. They feel that those feelings will carry them through and will aways be there.

Of course, the illogical fantasy (the OP can "do no wrong" and "is so perfect for me") inevitably evaporates. Research on the in-love state (called "limerance" by psychologists) shows that it lasts an average of 2 years, though tends to be a little longer in a clandestine scenario. When it does dissipate, it is an enormous shock to the affair-couple (and probably especially to the WS). The "honeymoon" is over and the euphoria that covered a multitude of obvious problems has vanished. Now they have to contend with REALITY which is a big step down from fantasy. The couple quickly discovers that they make little sense together--they are incompatible, have vastly different backgrounds, values, life goals, standards, interests, and even levels of commitment to each other.

They break up (or are at least clearly heading there) and that is the time the WS often re-approaches the BS...