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Jeremiah 19

The Broken Flask

1Thus says the LORD, “Go, buy a potter’s earthenware flask, and take some of the elders of the people and some of the elders of the priests, 2and go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom at the entry of the Potsherd Gate, and proclaim there the words that I tell you.

3You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing such disaster upon this place that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle.

4Because the people have forsaken me and have profaned this place by making offerings in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5and have built the high places of Baal [Abortion Clinics] to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal [Freedom of Choice to Willfully Kill Innocent Children], which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind— 6therefore, behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

7And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth.

8And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at. Everyone who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its wounds.

9And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and everyone shall eat the flesh of his neighbor in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’

10“Then you shall break the flask in the sight of the men who go with you, 11and shall say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts: So will I break this people and this city, as one breaks a potter’s vessel, so that it can never be mended. Men shall bury in Topheth because there will be no place else to bury. 12Thus will I do to this place, declares the LORD, and to its inhabitants, making this city like Topheth. 13The houses of Jerusalem and the houses of the kings of Judah—all the houses on whose roofs offerings have been offered to all the host of heaven, and drink offerings have been poured out to other gods—shall be defiled like the place of Topheth.’”

14Then Jeremiah came from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and he stood in the court of the LORD’s house and said to all the people: 15“Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, behold, I am bringing upon this city and upon all its towns all the disaster that I have pronounced against it, because they have stiffened their neck, refusing to hear my words.”


Your VOTE is your choice. Take heed America. Choose wisely.

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On second thoughts folks, please remember NO PERSONAL ATTACKS will be tolerated on this thread. Please keep it respectful.

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Dufresne, Thank you for unlocking this thread. You locked it JUST as I was posting before.

I'll try to say again what I had written before.

FH, I am right there with you. Thank you again for having the courage to post this.

This has been exactly my fear. That God will remove his hand of blessing from our country BECAUSE we continue to allow the atrocity that is abortion-on-demand.

Many years ago(25?) the church I was attending had a ministerial exchange with a church in Germany. The German minister was a man who was fearless and totally unafraid to preach the Word of God. He said, from our pulpit, that he could not believe that a country as WONDERFUL as the USA would continue to allow abortion-on-demand to be the law. He walked us through a history of modern Germany and showed us clearly that the precursor to the Holocaust was legalized abortion-on-demand. It was chilling.

God be with us.

Blessings,
WH2LE


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That's the weirdest way I've ever seen anyone Godwin a thread.

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Originally Posted by Wknghrd2LoveEasy
He walked us through a history of modern Germany and showed us clearly that the precursor to the Holocaust was legalized abortion-on-demand. It was chilling.

From what I've read, when the Nazis came to power, they outlawed abortions for German women.

They did allow (and encourage) abortion for Jewish women, to reduce their numbers and to yield more "efficient" (read - w/o children) slaves. But that was the result of the Holocaust process, not a precursor to it.

I don't see any evidence that "legalized abortion on demand" (which in fact did not exist in Germany for Germans) led to the rise of the Nazis and the Holocaust. I would be curious to hear how the speaker tried to make that case without taking some liberties with history.

AGG


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This has been exactly my fear. That God will remove his hand of blessing from our country BECAUSE we continue to allow the atrocity that is abortion-on-demand.

It's my fear as well. I pray daily that God will show our nation His mercy. I don't feel right about asking for His blessings.

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Originally Posted by NMDreams
That's the weirdest way I've ever seen anyone Godwin a thread.

NMD, please NOTE the bolded part of "Godwin's law."

All your brief statement seems to do is attempt to marginalize what someone else said without actually examining the merits, or lack of merits, of the argument, perhaps simply because you don't agree with it or perhaps simply because you want "abortion on demand" for whatever reasons you like.

Regardless, this "Godwin's law" is an opinion by Mike Godwin that has been misused many times in an effort to shut down legitimate discussion of "difficult" issues.

Godwin's law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Godwins law)
Jump to: navigation, search
Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3]
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the reductio ad Hitlerum form.
The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.


Originally Posted by AgoodGuy
From what I've read, when the Nazis came to power, they outlawed abortions for German women.

They did allow (and encourage) abortion for Jewish women, to reduce their numbers and to yield more "efficient" (read - w/o children) slaves. But that was the result of the Holocaust process, not a precursor to it.

I don't see any evidence that "legalized abortion on demand" (which in fact did not exist in Germany for Germans) led to the rise of the Nazis and the Holocaust. I would be curious to hear how the speaker tried to make that case without taking some liberties with history.

AGG - perhaps this article might provide some of the answers to your curiosity on this issue.

The Abortion and Eugenics Policies of Nazi Germany

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/air/air_vol16no1_2001.html


There DOES seem to be a marked connection to German abortion issues, both preceding and during the period of Nazi Germany.

Of particular note in the article, also, is the information regarding Margaret Sanger and the "arguments" for abortion used by proponents in America today.



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Originally Posted by ForeverHers
AGG - perhaps this article might provide some of the answers to your curiosity on this issue.

There DOES seem to be a marked connection to German abortion issues, both preceding and during the period of Nazi Germany.

Sure, there is a connection. The article you cited says that the connection is that the Nazis forbade abortion for German women. And they allowed it for Jewish women and Eastern European women:

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Hence, in 1933, in their first year of power, the [color:#FF0000]Nazis passed a law forbidding abortion to Germans[/color]... In 1938 the government announced that Jews could have abortions at any time, since this could only benefit the German people... This meant that the [color:#FF0000]Nazis saw abortion as a very useful weapon against undesirables[/color]; e.g. as an act of elimination....The specific aim was to keep eastern females available for slave labor while at the same time weakening eastern nations by hampering the reproduction of Slavic peoples.(... [color:#FF0000]Nazis forbade abortion [/color]in order to preserve German unborn but allowed, even encouraged, the destruction of non-German unborn

So, this was in fact part of the "final solution". But in no way does it support the implication that "abortion on demand" was a precursor to the Holocaust, as was claimed above.

Your article specifically said that abortion was more accessible before the Nazis than during Nazis. So the article completely contradicts the case that was made by the poster above, that abortion on demand somehow was a "precursor" to the Holocaust. In fact, the opposite is true.

AGG


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AGG, you might want to go back an reread that article. If I have the time I might go back and quote from some of the more relevant points that you seem to be ignoring.

And while you are it, any comments about the Margaret Sanger information?


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In spite of human historians, there is a LOUDER voice that deliniates the real cost of this Apostacy:

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the signs are there all around you, but few see or notice them; innocent blood is shed of My sons' and daughters' for Satan; this innocent blood is offered like a holocaust to the Evil one; Satan's plan is to strip this world from its creation, annihilate you all and engulf you all in flames; he wants one big holocaust out of all of you; I shout, I cry out, I shed Tears of Blood, but few pay attention; God will be coming to you but you do not know in which way;


http://www.tlig.org/print/en/messages/679/


All Blessings,
Jerry

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This has been exactly my fear. That God will remove his hand of blessing from our country BECAUSE we continue to allow the atrocity that is abortion-on-demand.

I'm not asking this to be smart alecky, but because I'm curious about this statement. What would be different in the US if God did "remove his hand of blessing from our country"?

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I'm not asking this to be smart alecky, but because I'm curious about this statement. What would be different in the US if God did "remove his hand of blessing from our country"?
Actually, you don't have to wonder, as God has already done so.

So glance around you, how blessed are we now?

War, our young men and women coming home to Dover in body bags, our economy in the toilet, our esteem among other nations at an all time low, milions of innocent unborns being murdered at will, people losing their homes and livelyhood at the hands of greedy corparations who have no concience, ..... does any of this seem Godlike?

The difference is becoming more and more apparent every day. It is our folly and will be undoing is we do not reverse this trend.
Hate to irk some of the non believers, but without God we are as hapless and hopeles as any other nation inthe world.

All Blessings,
Jerry

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AGG - Remarkable similarities between Sanger, Planned Parenthood, and Pro-Abortion supports with what went on in Germany preceeding and during Nazi Germany.

From the preceding cited link:

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First, let us briefly look at the United States. It was in this country that the eugenics movement really became established. In 1910, the first major eugenic research institution, the Eugenics Records Office, was founded and in 1923, the American Eugenics Society was formed, with branches in 29 states by the end of the decade. By 1928 there were 376 college courses on eugenics, and the subject found its way into high school texts by the mid-1930's.(4) While the movement was international, by far the most work surrounding it occurred in the United States.(5)

Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, did not draw a distinction between "fit" and "unfit" along racial lines, as Nazi Germany would later do. She still believed there were "tinfit" (the poor, epileptics, alcoholics, criminals, those physically and mentally disabled) who should be prevented from reproducing, by force if necessary.(6) In her Birth Control Review (October 1921, p. 5) she said, "[b]Possibly drastic and Spartan methods may be forced upon society if it continues complacently to encourage the chance and chaotic breeding that has resulted from our stupidly cruel sentimentalism."(7)


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Sanger thus believed not only in birth control but in the use of it along with sterilization to promote eugenics. She did not advocate abortion, and Planned Parenthood held this position until her death in 1966. Her disavowal of abortion, however, while approving of birth control, sterilization (including forced sterilization) and eugenics, was a tactical move. It was the result of the advice given her by her lover, Havelock Ellis, who convinced her that industrial society was not quite ready for it.

Previous to this she had spoken about "the right to destroy [the unborn]."(8) Sanger and like-minded American eugenicists had contacts with sex reformers in Germany, and it would be in the United States and Germany that eugenics would receive the most interest.(9) As an historian of genetic issues has put it, "when all is said and done, it is the LOGIC of eugenics far more than its racism that proved to be the most unfortunate legacy of the German race hygiene movement for the Third Reich."(10)

It would seem evident that "associations" DO count and ARE important, despite "present day" claims of denial.




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Eugenics is a discredited science today.(34) There is also shock felt and experienced today about tricked and forced sterilizations of the past. Abortion, however, is now legal in most democracies, with the boast from those who believe in its legality that there is "choice" in the matter, that what the Nazis did was wrong because things were forced.

We must ask constantly: Choice? Freedom? To do what? Sterilization (forced or voluntary, for eugenic reasons or not) prevents a life from happening. Abortion, on the other hand, takes a life that has already happened because an unborn is the other patient in any pregnancy(35) and is no longer considered by science a mere maternal appendage.(36) The Nazis, experts in killing, knew this.

Fifty years ago, the democracies knew this also. At the one War Crimes Trial involving abortion, the prosecutor, in his summation, called abortion an "inhumane act" and an "act of extermination" and stated that even if a woman's request for abortion was voluntary abortion was still a war crime and a crime against humanity.(37) The men doing the abortions were found guilty at this trial of "encouraging and compelling abortions" and were sentenced to 25 years in prison.(38) Concerning abortion, the United States, a democracy, is doing today what it once condemned Germany for doing.

In looking at the Nazis and abortion, and abortion in general, many:

· Tend to focus on the Nazis taking a choice from women, not on the Nazis considering the procedure a very effective way to kill. The German Supreme Court has made the connection between abortion and killing in two of its decisions [1975, 1993(39)].

· Tend to focus on the issues of church-state, morality vs privacy, not on human rights, the thing that binds us all. Abortion has been called a crime against humanity.

· Tend to focus on themselves, not others. There are two lives involved in every pregnancy.

· Tend to want to be called "centrists," "moderates," "mainstream," not "extremists." Prochoice, not pro-life, is closer to fascism. Remember also that democracies can do horrible things.


The resentments and legitimate grievances Germany had after World War I roughly parallel women's resentments and grievances over a long period of time. Germany was not fully part of the family of nations; women were not fully part of humanity. But just as there was no excuse for Hitler, who made Jews, Slavs and others scapegoats for Germany's problems, there is no excuse for abortion, which makes the unborn scapegoats for women's problems.

In both cases, the Nazis after World War I, and modern feminists of the last thirty years, it is as if both were saying, "We have been wronged for so long we cannot do any wrong." Hitler was Germany's doing wrong; abortion is modern feminism's perverting feminism's original message.


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Originally Posted by NMDreams
Quote
This has been exactly my fear. That God will remove his hand of blessing from our country BECAUSE we continue to allow the atrocity that is abortion-on-demand.

I'm not asking this to be smart alecky, but because I'm curious about this statement. What would be different in the US if God did "remove his hand of blessing from our country"?

In the spirit of the proferred sincerity of your question, let me try to give you just a few examples of the sort of thing could easily be "different." Keep in mind that in none of the "examples" would the "result" be instantaneous. But it would be "inevitable" or "inexorable" if you prefer.

1. As in the case of Israel, they went into captivity and ceased to function as a distinct sovereign nation.

2. As in the case of the Antediluvian world, the "natural proclivities of mankind" were constantly for evil. THAT is our basic "human nature."

3. As in Sodom, God reaches a point where His "Patience runs out" and He does not withhold His justice for the sake of the "few who remain faithful."

4. There WILL come a time when God does "allow" every nation on Earth to be allied against Israel, leading up to Armageddon.

5. There WILL be time of the "mark of the Beast" and that will be a MOST unpleasant time for any who remain faithful to the LORD, as even who eats and who does not eat is controlled by the "authority in charge of the State."


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IF we are suffering from God's wrath...it would appear the Republican's have more responsibility for such. They've been in charge for 20 of the last 28 years (or 24 or the last 36) and have certainly NOT governed from a biblical point of view. There is NOTHING in the above to prove or show the Republicans will do ANYTHING better or different to help us escape God's wrath. IMO, I think they will be worse. Jesus WAS a liberal afterall.


All this Nazi talk is subterfuge as well. Maybe it's Republican Nazism? They would love nothing more than the abolition of the Democratic Party. A one party state would please them. They demonstrate no tolerance for opposing viewpoints (fascists).

Here's an interesting article. I'm presenting it more as satire as I DO have respect for my Republican friends here and don't believe them to be Nazi's in the least. It's more a demonstration of what's out there on the internet and how anyone and anything can be "Godwinned". [though after I learned of the associations the Bush family had with the Saudi's, the below doesn't surprise me}


Quote
A Fresh Look
by Carla Binion
Nazis and the Republican Party

Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in BLOWBACK that after World War II, Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U.S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees." Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas. The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party.

Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll "for their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare," among other purposes. The most important Nazi employed by the U.S. was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's most senior eastern front military intelligence officer. After Germany's defeat became certain, Gehlen offered the U.S. certain concessions in exchange for his own protection. Gehlen promoted hyped up cold war propaganda on behalf of the political right in this country, and helped shape U.S. perceptions of the cold war.

Journalist Russ Bellant (OLD NAZIS, THE NEW RIGHT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY) shows that Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican émigré network. Pasztor, who served as adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate Hungary's Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council.

Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week, disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The article prompted six leaders of Bush's coalition to resign.

According to Russ Bellant, Nazi collaborators involved in the Republican Party included:

1.Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council's executive director, and head of "Bulgarians for Bush." Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.

2.Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of "Romanians for Bush." Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.

3.Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.

4.Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.

5.Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP's Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.

6.Bohdan Fedorak, leader of "Ukrainians for Bush." Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms.

The Philadelphia Inquirer ran an article on the Bush team's inclusion of Nazis (David Lee Preston, "Fired Bush backer one of several with possible Nazi links," September 10, 1988.) The newspaper also ran an investigative series on Nazi members of the Bush coalition. The article confirmed that the Bush team included members listed by Russ Bellant.

Journalist Martin A. Lee, has written for The Nation, Rolling Stone, The San Francisco Chronicle, and other publications. In THE BEAST REAWAKENS, Lee confirms that during both the Reagan and Bush years, the Republican Party's ethnic outreach arm recruited members from the Nazi émigré network.

Lee says that the Republican Party's ethnic outreach division had an outspoken hatred of President Jimmy Carter's Office of Special Investigations (OSI), an organization dedicated to tracking down and prosecuting Nazi war collaborators who entered this country illegally. Former Republican Pat Buchanan attacked Carter's OSI after it deported a few suspected Nazi war criminals.

According to Lee, public relations man Harold Keith Thompson was principal U.S. point man for the postwar Nazi support network known as die Spinne, or the Spider. In the late 40s and early 50s, Thompson worked as the chief North American representative for the remaining National Socialist German Worker's Party and the SS. Lee writes that the wealthy Thompson gave generously to Republican candidates Senator Jesse Helms and would-be senator Oliver North. Thompson's money gained him membership in the GOP's Presidential Legion of Merit. Lee says Thompson also "received numerous thank-you letters from the Republican National Committee." Those letters are now in the Hoover Institute Special Collections Library.

Christopher Simpson writes in BLOWBACK that in 1983, Ronald Reagan presented a Medal of Freedom, the country's highest civilian honor, to CIA émigré program consultant James Burnham. Burnham was a psychological warfare consultant who promoted something called "liberationism." Just before the 1952 election, the CIA worked up a multimillion-dollar public relations campaign aimed at selling Americans on expanding cold war activities in Europe. Part of the guiding theory (given the name "liberationism") was the idea that certain Nazi leaders from World War II should be brought in as "freedom fighters" against the USSR.

Reagan said that Burnham's ideas on liberation "profoundly affected the way America views itself and the world," adding, "I owe [Burnham] a personal debt, because throughout the years of traveling on the mashed-potato circuit I have quoted [him] widely." Reagan may not have known Burnham's theories were based on his work on projects that enlisted many Nazi collaborators, but it seems that Reagan's CIA Director Casey or former CIA Director, Vice President George Bush, would have informed him.

At a May 9, 1984 press conference, Simon Wiesenthal said, "Nazi criminals were the principal beneficiaries of the Cold War." The cold war mentality, hyped by Reinhard Gehlen and other Nazis, became the shelter for tens of thousands of Nazi criminals. Helping the far right in this country to promote cold war hysteria became the Nazi war criminals "reason for being." As Christopher Simpson says, the cold war became those criminals' means "to avoid responsibility for the murders they had committed."

Journalist Seymour Hersh says Christopher Simpson's BLOWBACK is "the ultimate book about the worst kind of cold war thinking, in which some of our most respected statesmen made shameful decisions that they mistakenly believed to be justified." To this day, says Simpson, the U.S. intelligence agencies hide the scope of their post-World War II collaboration with Nazi criminals.

Are Republicans like George H. W. Bush, Oliver North, and Jesse Helms, aware they have been assisted by Nazi collaborators? Bush once worked for the CIA and should have known about the nature of the Nazis in his '88 campaign. No doubt he knows the history of Nazi/CIA collaboration. Whether or not Bush knew of the fascists' involvement in his campaign, the Republican Party should have done a far better screening job. One thing is certain: The intelligence agencies know the scope and extent of Nazi involvement with the political right in this country. It is a shame they keep it hidden from the majority of the American people.


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I in no way implied that ANYONE, Democrat, Republican, or otherwise is a Nazi.

I did not suggest in any way that ANY party or person was responsible for the abomination of abortion-on-demand.

I did not suggest that we are heading toward Naziism.

I had never even heard the term Godwining until it was used on this thread.(Guess I'm just ignorant, huh?).

No one has suggested the abolition of ANY party.

I repeated a history lesson from a man with a Ph.D. who was born and raised in the German educational system, and who certainly knows more German history than I do.

As for how our country is blessed, wow.......I hardly know where to start. How about with the fact that on Tuesday we will have a peaceful election, that there will be no coups or military demonstrations by ANYONE, regardless of who wins?

How about the fact that in 2000 it took a month till we came up with a winner of the election and in that entire time, there was not ONE bombing or military show or civil war? And don't start in with it wasn't a fair election. That is my point exactly. There were many people who felt it was unfair but still accepted the ultimate decision of the Supreme Court. No one started a WAR over it.

How about the fact that you can actually travel anywhere you want to in this BEAUTIFUL country of ours?

How about the fact that if you WANT to start a new business you CAN?

How about the fact that you can go to ANY church you want, or NOT go to church if you don't want to, or stand on the corner and preach your message unemcumbered by a government who stops you?

Does anyone else want to chime in with HOW this country has been blessed and blessed and blessed again?

My DDIL is from a country where they have no such freedoms. You had better NOT dare to preach anything but the state religion or YOU WILL BE KILLED. You had better NEVER be caught publicly saying anything against the government if you want a house to live in or an education.

There ARE no elections.

Oh, and they have socialized medicine, but her mother has to go to another nearby country to get PROPER treatment but this year her home country has denied her a visa to go.

My DDIL came here for a reason. FREEDOM. Our greatest blessing.
Freedom to have a different opinion than anyone else if she so chooses.

My discussion is not about parties or religions or liberal or conservative philosophies.

It is about the deepest respect for the life God has given us and the fear that God will remove the blessings he has poured out on us if we do not see the error of our ways in allowing abortion-on-demand.

Blessings,
WH2LE


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Originally Posted by MrWondering
IF we are suffering from God's wrath...it would appear the Republican's have more responsibility for such. They've been in charge for 20 of the last 28 years (or 24 or the last 36) and have certainly NOT governed from a biblical point of view. There is NOTHING in the above to prove or show the Republicans will do ANYTHING better or different to help us escape God's wrath. IMO, I think they will be worse.

You seem to miss the whole point of the discussion, Mr. W.

The "issue" is not whether a candidate is Republican or Democrat, the issue is Abortion and State sponsorship of Abortion. We ARE faced with a choice between two candidates, one who is Pro-Life and one who is Pro-Abortion. WE ARE responsible to God for all of our choices in life, and that includes who we want to "rule," as the people of Israel found out in their demand to have a King. They got Saul. In every case where Israel was "ruled" by someone who DID NOT walk with God, BAD things happened.

God tells us to CHOOSE, but to "choose wisely" according to His will, not our own will.

Biblically, there is no justification for abortion.

Secularly, the justifications are virtually identical with those of Germany, both in the Weimar and in the Nazi versions of government.

I would "challenge" you, as a believer, to show how you justify the killing of children by anyone who wants one.

Further, I would challenge you to explain why God would be "okay" with your supporting someone who is committed to abortion on demand as one of his KEY campaign "planks."

You don't even have to "post" an answer.

Don't "explain" it to me, explain it to God so that HE would be "okay" with your supporting something He does not. How does "bending the knee" to modern-day Baal's rather than standing firm on God's Word on the subject matter "release" one from responsibility TO God for not standing for His "Standards," even if it might not be the "popular thing to do?"


Originally Posted by MrWondering
Jesus WAS a liberal afterall.

You think so?

"If you love me, obey my commands."

Surrendering your life INCLUDES surrendering your "will," thoughts, ideas, opinions, TO God whenever they are "in conflict" with His will. How do you think that might make God "a liberal afterall?"




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My question was not "How is the US blessed", but "What would be different in the US if God did 'remove his hand of blessing from our country' "?

Joined: Jan 2008
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Ok, I'll rephrase it.

No freedom.

No freedom of religion.

Civil wars, governmental intevention in every aspect of our life.

FORCED abortion(much as they have in China).

No freedom of speech, no freedom to pursue your own path, educationally, economically, religiously.

Loss of life ,liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Total collapse of our economy as we know it.

Do I think this country is perfect? Nonsense. Not unless I believe people are perfect. But do I think this country is THE most blessed on earth. Absolutely, positively, unquestionably I do.

I always believed this, but I'll tell you, my DDIL helped me see this country again with fresh eyes. I can not imagine what would happen if we had to live under the type of regime her family has.

Again, my discussion is about what will happen if we continue to allow the atrocity of abortion-on-demand, pretending that it DOES NOT matter to the Lord of The Universe, the MOST HIGH God.

Blessings,
WH2LE


WH2LE

BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007
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