In this day and age that, even with all the diversity and advanced technology we have, Some of us still do so many mean and hateful things to one another. SMH I remember before I knew I was pregnant with my oldest DD the whole Columbine shootings happened. Seeing that I said I would never want to bring kids into a world where that can't even go to school without having to worry about their safety. When I found out I was pregnant I cried so hard because your kids in grade school should only have to worry about doing their best and moving on to the next grade and not if they will or won't make it home, because someone is so insecure and unsure of themselves that they would want to hurt someone just to make themselves feel better.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,5505,00.html

After looking at this link can someone tell me why?

Sorry DIG, because the world is not the warm and fuzzy place we hope it would be. If it were none of us would be on this site.

Stupid people do stupid things or as I tell my DW "Remember all the dumb people you went to school with? Do you think they magically got smarter after they left school?" Sad but true.

Want2Stay

Want2stay it is heartbreaking. We all our different. I would like to think as far as we have come over the years that we can't accept that just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't make them wrong, just different. It's mean and hateful and the fact that is coming out on both sides the candidates should make some kind of statement that shows they are not in favor of these blatant hateful acts. By not doing this it seems that they are okay with the country becoming even more divided. If either of them really cared about our great nation they would be trying to have some kind of untied front against these deeds.

The Patriot Act is in full effect. I think anyone caught doing these things should be held accountable under that law just to show that these deeds are not okay. I wonder did the people that did this even consider that fact that they could be scaring and upsetting to people in general. If you want to make a statement it should be done in a manner that shows your intellect and not you fear and hatred.

This is good and true

The Patriot Act is an anti-American piece of crap that will be history soon enough, but I mostly agree with you.

This will probably fall under Freedom of Speech, and I can't say I disagree with that.

You either let idiots do idiotic (not dangerous) things, or you end up in a police state where you can be arrested for expressing displeasure with goverment policy.

Dig:

I have this HEAVY HEART like you seem to have. I abhor "MEANNESS".

I don't want to make this into a political thread.

I want to say to YOU... because I think you will LISTEN....that one major thing that I have loved about Obama is his continuing to speak about creating a UNITED States of America..NO RED STATES..NO BLUE STATES..us UNITED to heal our CRISES as a NATION...I don't find his words to be RHETORIC. They speak directly to what I PERSONALLY want for OUR COUNTRY.

DIG, it is heartbreaking, no doubt about that.

But, hopefully, without causing you more pain, I'd like to discuss the thought you express here.

You asked in your first post, "Why?".

We ARE all different and I would agree with your plea and your assessement that they are "just" different, but I can't because EVIL does exist.

Your statement would imply that there is no evil, only "differences of opinion." I consider the "hanging in effigy" of Sarah Palin, Barack Obama, or anyone else for that matter to be WRONG. But there can't be a "wrong" if "all opinions are equal and there is no Standard of what IS and what IS NOT "wrong."

And that's the "problem" with "Relative Morality." WHO gets to decide what IS and what IS NOT right or wrong behavior? Left to each individual, the individual will decide for themselves, regardless of anyone else's opinion.

Many on the system have been "all over" those of us who say that abortion is evil, for example. For them, it is "okay" to kill babies. The "difference" between the "hangings in effigy" and abortion is that abortion IS real and it IS happening every day, costing millions of babies of all ethnicities to lose their lives because somone else decided for them that it was "okay."

And since Mimi brought it up, Obama IS one of those who supports and actively endorses and defends the wanton killing of millions of babies. I happen to think that is evil and wrong in the ultimate, and others choose to think it's "okay." That IS a "difference," but sans any "absolutes" of "right and wrong," who's to say that ANYTHING anyone wants to do is "wrong?"



That is true, DIG. But I heard nothing from Obama or Biden or Pelosi or Reid or the "liberal" side about the hanging in effigy of Sarah Palin. So some jerk apparently decided that it was "fair game" to "return the favor" by hanging Obama in effigy.

It will be interesting to see what the responses to these "visual effects" of hatred are from the media and others.



While I understand your sentiment here, DIG, your original "premise" that people are simply "different" is "in play" here. Unless there IS a Standard that applies to everyone, regardless of what their "opinion" may be, then there IS nothing by which to judge the most heinous of acts that anyone might CHOOSE to commit.

The "Fight," as you know, has been on for years to remove any mention of God and HIS standards, of the 10 Commandments, of anything that says that there ARE "absolute standards" that are NOT determined by man alone, but by the one who IS the Judge of the world.

Once we decide that behavior is "relative," then we really say that there is no right and wrong for anyone other than for ourselves, by whatever measure we want to use for our own standards, but that "my" standards DO NOT apply to anyone else.

That is the dilemna that is "playing out before our eyes" today.

Mimi, all of us would love to live in a "Utopia," but that isn't going to happen.

There is no way that the whole country could "unite" under "Obama's vision" for the sort of America he wants.

There is no way that the whole country could "unite" under a vision of America where "God's Standards" were those standards were "imposed" upon America. If people can't "unite" under the Standard of the preciousness and sanctity of life, why on earth would we think that they would "unite" under Obama's "vision" of a Socialist, rather than a Capitalist, country.

Obama plays to emotions, but he does not deal with reality. That is a FACT. It is how he has run his life and his political career from "day one."

He has NEVER "reached across the aisle" to do anything BUT support a far left agenda and the "Democrat Party Line." Shoot, even in his stance on Partial Birth Abortion and in letting babies who survive an abortion attempt to die, MOST of his Democrat colleagues, who are also quite "liberal," would not go "that far."

IF John McCain were Pro-Abortion instead of Pro-Life, I would NOT vote for McCain. Make no mistake about it, I do not agree with everthing that McCain has done or that he proposes to do if elected. But the REALITY is that McCain IS Pro-Life and Obama is Pro-Death for Babies.

They both claim to be "Christians." Claims are nice, but "SHOW me your faith by what you DO and stand for" is what I would tell both of them. The STANDARD regarding babies IS God's, not ours. It really is that "simple" when looking at who would be most suitable for being the President of this country and NOT trying to change the Constitution or our "way of life" and institute a government that is "in control," rather than the PEOPLE being in control.

Mimi, all of us would love to live in a "Utopia," but that isn't going to happen.

There is no way that the whole country could "unite" under "Obama's vision" for the sort of America he wants.

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I think most people in the U.S.(even Obama supporters) are realistic enough to understand the next 4 years are going to be very difficult ones.....no matter who wins. I live in a conservative area of a swing state right now and I am nowhere near convinced that Obama will win.
I agree that the whole country will not be able to unite under Obama's vision but If he does win I am prepared to let the pendulum swing that way for a few years and I will be hopeful that it will bring about some unity and some good changes for many Americans.

I understand your hope, nia. But the last time we had something close to what Obama envisions was under Jimmy Carter. The changes he brought is something that those of us who "lived through" those years really don't want to see again.

Do you remember 21% interest rates, for example?

For ME, OVERALL, the CARTER years were BETTER than the BUSH years...WAY BETTER..

EXACTLY...at least, he is SPEAKING about UNITY...putting that among OTHER ISSUES in the FOREFRONT and that matters to ME..and it seems to lots of others...

Do you remember 21% interest rates, for example?
****************************

I remember hearing about them. And I remember seeing a Jimmy Carter dummy upside down in a trashcan in Massachusetts...
the ONLY state who didn't vote for Nixon in 72.
My first vote was for Reagan.
It's going to be a tough 4 years and I doubt the party who wins this election will win again in 2012.
I have my fears about the future but the world is a different place then it was in 76 and I want to maintain some hope that Obama (should he win)
will do what he has said and appoint
people who will challange him to make intelligent (and more centered)decisions.

EXACTLY...at least, he is SPEAKING about UNITY...putting that among OTHER ISSUES in the FOREFRONT and that matters to ME..and it seems to lots of others...
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This is true and it is one of the things that I like about Obama. I have to admit, he makes me nervous in some ways...but,then so does McCain....but, I can find some comfort in Obamas demeanor and what appears to be level headedness. I may not agree with his politics but I don't believe he wants to be president so he can bring America down.
I have no idea who is going to win this election....I think it's going to be very close and I want to look for the good in both candidates. I don't feel 100% comfortable about either of them.
BUT, once all the campaigning is over and everybody votes, we will be stuck w/ whoever wins for the next 4 years and I will need to find a way to feel positive and proud about my country if I am going to be broke and struggling.

I'm speaking to YOU, NIA...

Given Obama's background and life history, don't you think that he can better RELATE to the MIDDLE-CLASS who are STRUGGLING in this country now? IF, one's own upbring matters? To me, it seems like Obama's political views fit with HIS OWN HISTORY of being in BOTH WORLDS, BI-RACIAL, SINGLE MOTHER, etc....that he can RELATE..to ME, that MATTERS..that he has lived the life AND has spoken out for the issues that matter to the working poor..that he had the opportunity to FORGET and to work for CORPORATE AMERICA but yet went into the INNER CITY to WORK in order to GIVE BACK to the COMMUNITY..

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I DO think that he gets what it's like to live a middle class life, mimi...... I have actually listened to him with open ears and an open mind, but I remind myself that he is a politician and I am skeptical of all of them.
I do beleive his life history has led him to invision a more united America.....and I think that scares a lot of people because he IS a liberal and being a middle class conservative,I understand the concern about his politics...I worry that he will use government money to bring back bad welfare programs and will care more about protecting civil rights than our borders. But.....this is where MY hope comes in....he's smart and he's ambitious..... I hope he will be less idealistic and more calculated if he wins.....and if he truly wants to unite the country and be a good president, he will become a more conservative liberal. I don't see him changing his idelogy and I am ok w/ the pendulum swinging that way this election....I just pray that he will be smart and patient about it if he does win.

Why? He has said that this has been one of his MAJOR CHANGES in BELIEF. What would be the PURPOSE of bringing back BAD welfare programs?


What's WRONG with protecting CIVIL RIGHTS? BOTH can be done... protecting CIVIL RIGHTS as well as our BORDERS.

Just wondering...

Trying to UNDERSTAND rather than FIGHT about differences in BELIEF..


To ME, what MATTERS is IF he wants to UNITE the COUNTRY and to be a GOOD PRESIDENT...

What does it MATTER, Nia whether he is LABELED a "conservative" or a "liberal"..it didn't used to matter to me as much as it does NOW from reading HERE on the forum...

There REALLY seems to be a VIEW of BAD vs. GOOD and WRONG vs. RIGHT associated with these LABELS of PEOPLE..that I was NAIVE about..NO MORE...I truly DO believe in UNITY..everyone STRIVING to MAKE PEACE and to GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER without worrying so much about the LABELS..everyone working towards THE GREATER GOOD OF SOCIETY...

Mimi - You don't? It sure doesn't seem that way.

Do you REALLY want to discuss Obama's upbringing and his political philosophies?

I understand you would rather post to Nia because you think you can influence her to support Obama.

That's fine. You can do that.

But it would seem equally clear that you don't care much about his "on the record" stance concerning abortion and letting babies who survive abortion attempts simply die in some "comfort room," if any. Some comfort...to be left to die.


Nia, for what it's worth, Obama isn't interested in helping people, he is interested in getting elected by saying anything he thinks will get him elected. There is ample proof for that in many of the political discussion threads that have been locked, but that can still be read.

He IS interested in taking money from anyone HE thinks has "too much" or "enough" and giving it to anyone he pleases. He will destroy the healthcare system if he tries to nationalize it. He will put a LOT of businesses out of business. He will continue his opposition to drilling and our dependence on foreign oil. He will continue his support for Ethanol (one of the biggest and costliest hoaxes perpetrated on the American people), he will (especially if Pelosi and Reid can get a "veto proof" majority in Congress) move this country to a spending binge like we've never seen before, he will "negotiate" with any country without any preconditions, he will spend an additional TRIILION dollars above the already approved 700 BILLION dollar "rescue" of the financial banks (That IS Welfare and keeping people dependent upon the Government), he will GIVE money to the 40% who don't pay any taxes by taking it from the other people who he thinks have "enough." He WILL move this country to Socialism and will NOT support Israel. (I would love to see that tape the LA Times refuses to release).

Yes, there were "gas lines" and shortages, very high interest rates, and taxes were "sky high" to try to pay for everything.

And that is the "fatal" difference between liberals and conservatives. The liberals really do think they can TAX themselves out of any problems and can just keep on raising taxes to pay for everything. The BELIEVE that "government" is the "cure for what ails 'ya." They always have (at least since Kennedy) and Obama is in LOCK STEP with that philosophy. Nevermind that it has been proven over and over again that it doesn't work and it can't be sustained.

As the Mortgage Meltdown problem SHOULD have shown everyone, you cannot just "give money away" and expect that no one has to PAY for the "giveaway."

So on the abortion front (the right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) and Obama's pledge to immediately sign the "Freedom of Choice" legislation banning ANY restrictions on abortions nationally, on the domestic front (where Obama wants a Socialist model of government) and wants to nominate extremely liberal Supreme Court Justices, and on the international front (where Obama is remarkably naive and will be "tested" as his running mate said), Obama is WRONG for America. He might be right for some other type of country, but not for America.

And what's so amazing about, as well as very revealing, is just how AGAINST most of Obama's ideas were his former "challengers" for the Democrat nomination, not the least of which was his own running mate Joe Biden ("the Presidency is no place for on-the-job-training). 172 days in the Senate and the rest of his time spent campaigning for even more power to implement HIS ideas of "change," regardless of what other people might think he means by "change."

But "free money" is very appealing to a LOT of people and Obama knows it. And he plays to people's emotions. I just hope enough people who remain "undecided" realize just what profound changes an Obama Presidency WOULD bring. And the pain of trying to recover from it will be unlike anything the country has gone through, including the Great Depression.


For me, it's simple. It's not that I am voting FOR McCain (I don't consider McCain to be a true conservative), it's that I CANNOT vote for Obama and what he stands for, especially his callous disregard for the lives of MILLIONS of babies.

NIA:

This is REALLY what I am wanting.

I have REALLY STRUGGLED with the DIVISIVENESS that has been displayed here on MBers...

I'm not going to be provoked into it..

I'm not going to CHANGE my beliefs nor do I want you to CHANGE yours...

Mimi - What?

"I'm not going to CHANGE my beliefs"

Aside from that statement seeming to rather clearly state that "understanding" is not the "problem," let's just assume that there are things you really don't understand.

Which beliefs? What are you having trouble understanding with respect to "differences in BELIEF"?

There are STARK differences between Obama and McCain, so what is it you seem to be having trouble understanding? Capitalism versus Socialism? Pro-Abortion versus Pro-Life? Pro-Military versus Anti-Military? Pro-American versus Pro-Submitting the USA to the United Nations?

It seems hard to believe that someone would be having difficulty at this late date in understanding the differences, but if that is true, they can certainly be discussed.