Have already done the LB quizes and EN exercise with my wife (we both have filled them out and talked about them). They have been identified.

We have been quasi separated for the last 2 weeks or so, albeit it unofficial. She has not been staying at home about 50% of the time. Yesterday I confirmed (proof) that there is an OM and that there is an affair going on.

She did not come home last night, I expressed the importance of meeting with her right away last night (did not work and was probably a bad approach).

She will be home in a few hours.

Is there a sample plan A out there? I have read this page (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html) several times, but I am just not sure how to approach the conversation. I understand the need "Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands".

Just wondering if there are any samples out there of how people accomplished this.

Some of the questions i am trying to figure out

1) Do I tell her i know and give her a chance to tell me the truth first? This may get me more information then what i know now, which i think is a good thing

2) Do I say that I snooped and here is what I found out? This will certainly make it so she can't continue to like and say nothing is going on. This will set her off (lots of posts saying that), so how do I address it?

2) How can I get her to commit to stopping contact with OM. I assume this is what I should be trying for in a Plan A.

88, I think most people here would tell you to keep your proof to yourself, just calmly insist that you do know the truth and that she is lying to you.

Plan A is done for a (preferably short) period of time, and involves you demonstrating to you spouse that you are the best person to meet their emotional needs. It is very hard to keep this up for long when your spouse is cheating on you. Plan A is often followed by Plan B, which cuts off all contact with your spouse until the affair is ended.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can bump the info on Plan A for you.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

Thanks for the feedback. I read the carrot and the stick earlier today. I actually just got done cleaning the house, showering up, etc. Basically making this place look like the nice home that it is, instead of having her come home to a dark, dirty, uninviting hole to a guy that looks like crap.

I am totally on board with the carrot.

I am still a bit uneasy/don't fully understand the stick, which I think is the stuff i was asking in the 3 questions above. How is it best to confront it and get the truth out of her. What I found out tells me it is going on, but I really don't know very much. I want to get the truth out first, then let her know my desire for her to cut it off, etc.

What has worked for people in terms of bringing into the open between us and start the process of recovery ( I know A does not work most of the time and there is no magic pill). At the same time I want this to work as positively as possible.

Whelp, she finally came home about 2 hours ago. We sat down calmly. I told her that i know what is happening with the OM and that I needed her to tell me the truth. I stuck with this over and over despite her asking many times how i knew. I finally told her that i would tell her how i knew after she told me the truth (i was grasping at straws at this point). In the end after digging and digging she told me that she is in fact having an affair. She claims to have slept with him once about 2-3 weeks ago when she was really drunk and that it was a mistake. But she also admitted that they are really close and that they have kissed. I also got her to admit that they kissed goodbye a mere 3 hours ago when she was on her way here. She told me why she likes spending time with him. She told me that she does not want a relationship with him.

I stayed pretty damn calm through the whole thing. I asked her if she would stop seeing him or having contact with him. She did not commit to this. Her excuse is that she hangs out with this whole group of people now and basically i would be asking her to stop hanging out with any of the. I reiterated that I have read a ton of stuff on the subject and we really only have a shot if she ceases contact with him. She would not commit.

She said that she is really confused right now and that she does not want to lie to me so she can't say yes to that right now. I then asked her if she would be willing to not spend time with him until she actually makes that decision. Once again she refused. She said that she was going to go stay at her friends place. I told her that the truth needs to start right now. I think she agreed but it was half hearted.

She is pretty confused and I do not think if she really knows if she wants to be with me anymore. I told her she could stay here tonight and that i would just go into another room or vice versa. She said no she had to get out of here and she left.

Once gone she drove around for about 10 minutes and drove by the house again - i assume to see if i was following her.

I basically told her I am willing to do all the carrot items, but i do ask her to stop seeing him. She was asking if that was an ultimatum and i said no. I said that is what i wanted and was asking her to do.

I think she wanted me to give her an ultimatum. I think she wants to have a reason to be mad at me. But i did not give her that opportunity. I did not give her anything to hang her hat on. This is on her. period.

In the end she asked me how i knew and i told her that i am not telling her. She said that i would tell her. and i replied by saying well i guess i lied.


This is pretty much what I thought would happen at this point. She won't commit to it, and will probably continue to lie. So is this Plan A? I mean she needs to knock this [censored] off before we can start to working on saving our marriage.

How long do I let her float out there? How do I act when (if) she comes around but has not committed to stop seeing the OM?

If she is not willing to do it I feel like I am ready to go to Plan B asap. It has been 1 day since D-Day but I had assumed for about 2 months now that something was up.

Advice on what to do now?

I am weary of telling her friends, etc. I know that is preached alot on this boards. But, i will admit that is rough for me to think of doing. at least at the moment.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my threads over the last couple of weeks. I try to tell people the internet is cool/

There are 2 steps here.
1) Establishing NC
2) Working on recovery.

Recovery cannt begin until NC. If your pleading/requests/threats do not establish a NC between her and OM thats where exposure becomes valuable.
Exposure to friends and family is not a fun thing and IMHO only to be used in order to facilitate breaking up the affair. Tell only those who can and will impact the continuation of the affair. It is not a great plan for punishment as in the long run it will come back to bite your future relationship. At the same time without it there is no chance at future relationship.
So give it a reasonable amount of time (couple of days perhaps) to see if you WW is willing on her own to let go contact with OM, if not dont fear exposure use it as a tool to get your relationship back.

Plan A is to get thru the fog of your WW. Its not something you are going to be able to get thru in one day. I know you are frustrated and angry and we have all been there. Hang in there. Its not easy and you are on the right path.
Stick with the NC demand and do not waver on that. Nothing can progress in terms of healing yout M until Step one is completed.
So what ever it takes to end her contact with OM, Do it! What ever it takes to send her a clear message that she will not be able to ride in 2 boats at the same time Do it! Just be mindful of plan A's carrot to ensure that you are not only using the stick but are being the carrot as well. Its a hard balance but the only way out of this crappy mess.

Going to plan B as soon as you find out the truth is not doing a plan A.

How did WW meet the OM?

Is the OM married?

Time to expose without prior warning to your WW. Tell OM W/GF, WW's parents and siblings, this new group of friends.

wannamoveforward, thanks for the reply. Very helpful. I just was not sure how long I should for her to decide if she is willing to break it off with OM. A few days sounds reasonable. At the same time that will give me a few days to hopefully pony up to the idea of telling other people that can influence.

At this point she is living in a fantasy world. She met this guy at a dive bar that she went to with a friend of hers (during this same 3 months I have learned her friend is a cheater too). From this connection she had a met a new group of "friends" that all hang out at this bar. She has been hanging out with this group almost exclusively (without the orig friend who she was there with). So she basically has this group of friends that is off in a fantasy island.

She has not had much contact with her "true friends", even family lately. She has told some of them that we are having problems but nothing more. Nothing about not staying at home, and obviously nothing about there being an OM.

I am not sure how much of this is true, but my WW says the OM is much younger, has no job except maybe selling pot? WTF. I think she maybe even said the guy does not have a car. Basically a drunk whose life consists of drinking at bars literally every day. This is how she presented him in the past, but that may have all been a lie to try to convince me i had nothing to be jealous of. I think it is mostly true however.

Me, 34
WW, 31
Together 7 years, Married for 2.
If you are interested in more of the back story, reference my other post Here in NIM

During the next few days how should I act? I know that I need to do all the carrot stuff. But, do I continue to ask her if she made a decision? Do I ask here what she did after last night and where she stayed? Do I talk about us? what the heck do i do.

As I mentioned i told her i need to know the truth starting now last night, and so i am expecting her to tell me where she stayed, etc. Not sure if i should expect that or if she would be honest.

I also do not think she told me the truth completely. Did not tell me how close they really are, and i think lied to me in saying that the deed was only done once, etc. I feel like i need to know the whole truth.

If you ever watch the show "House" here is a line for you "Everybody lies"

Some times they lie to protect themselves
Somtimes they lie to protect you.

What does it matter what the truth about OM is . If he is better or worse than you will that make the A more or less painful for you ? Most OPs are a matter of convinence, they were there when the need arose. I dont think WS's set that much thought into choosing one, certainly not as much time and thought we BS's put into comparing and analysing them aginst ourselves. There is no checklist your WW used to pick the best OM out there. His name, age, profession, features, intellect, money status are meaningless and pointless to analyse so dont waste your enegry there. You are the Husband and he is nothing in this conversation but John Doe.

Every conversation about OM is just noise. Stay out of it. Keep your eye on the prize. Your M. The only TRUTH you care about is whether or not she wants this marriage. Whether or not she is willing to do all the things it will take from here on out to recover your marriage.

Seems to me that she is avoiding facing her "friends" and "family" beacuse she is afraid of how they will see her once her behaviour is exposed.
In that case I would say EXPOSE NOW !!!!!!
Do not warn your wife. I know you think that you should protect her but what if she was a drug addict would you want to enable her behaviour and see her sprial out of control. ?
She is "addicted" to this new friends and bars and OM fog fantasy that she is living in and the sooner that you can break the lid on it the sooner she will see the light.
Of course your immediate reward will be fury from he77 and anger and hatred from her so buckle up and get ready for the bumpiest ride yet .

I agree with what you are saying about OM. It does not matter who he is or if he is better or worse, etc. I am confident in who I am and my worth. I know what I have done wrong and the mistakes I have made. I am willing to change to try and save the M.

I was only giving those details because TheRoad asked about the OM.

I appreciate the advice on what to focus on. She told me that there is an A. I know there is more too it that she did not tell me, but I agree it is just noise to dig further.

It is funny how life is and how avalanches seem to start. I just found out that I have to lay off part of my team at work tomorrow. I guess I should be happy that my job is safe; at least for now.

OM's wealth, looks, fame, bedroom stats are not as important as what I was trying to get to.

Yes I asked about the OM. It's important if WW met him through work as a customer, client, co worker. Or is he a neighbor, coaches your child on a youth team.

Why?

To end the affair your WW needs NC, no contact with the OM. Steps must be taken to end these connections.

The A is easily endable from that respect, she just needs to make the decision. All she has to do is stop going to a couple bars and lose contact with a few friends that she has known for less then 3 months. There really are no roadblocks or reasons why contact is necessary. I guess I am lucky from that respect.

Sorry, but you are living in la-la land. The chances of your wife seeing the error of her ways and ending contact are practically zilch. Instead, she will be angry at you and justify what she is doing. Please prepare yourself.

What are you talking about? I never said she would cut it off.

All i said is that it would be easier in the sense that she is not having an affair with someone that would require moving out of town or quitting a job to end the contact. I think those things would make it even harder.

It doesn't matter how "easy" it would be to stop contacting her affair partner. Chances are excellent that she won't. Just be prepared for that.

In my 5 years here, I've seen maybe 3 out of 1,000 end the affair when confronted.

Yea, trust me i don't have high hopes.
But I did hear something like 15% of plan A work and 5% of plan B. Your number is more like 0.3%. Either way it is low.

One of the problems I am having is that H is living with OW and has one of our 4 children living with him. I have told him that I know what is going on, even though he continues to have the kids lie to me to cover for him. He has told me that she doesn't live there, and (of course) that there is nothing going on between them. I have told him that I do not want her around when the kids are there, but he continues to expose them to this situation. I have told him that he is doing nothing but confusing the kids, especially the younger ones because they don't understand what is going on.

Next weekend is our daughters birthday and H told me that she wanted to invite OW and her 2 younger brothers to her birthday party. He asked me how to tell her that she couldn't then tried to make me feel guilty that I wouldn't give him an answer. I later told him "I couldn't believe that he even had the nerve to ask me that, I mean come on, what am I supposed to do, welcome her with open arms after she tore my family apart?" His response was "It did take two, and we are adults, what happened to all that talk about the past is the past?" I told him that "yes the past is the past, but he is the one that brought her into it now, I would love to forget she ever even existed, but that cannot happen as long as she is around."

I just don't know how to handle this with the kids. My 15yo son absolutely hates her, 14yo just deals with her because he gets along with her little brother, and by 7yo and 9yo like going around because i think she is like an older sister to them. She paints their fingernails, does their hair and makeup.

S14 is the one that lives with H, (his biological, but I have raised him since he was 2). Since he moved in with H two weeks ago, he is failing 4 classes in school, before he moved, he had 80's in all of his classes except 1 70. Now he is failing 4 classes, and of all things Spanish, when OW speaks it. I asked S14 if he was having problems in Spanish, why didn't he just ask her, she lives there, and he said because it was "proper Spanish" that she didn't understand it. Come on, she just finished college, i guess she couldn't even take the time to read his book to try to help him out? That really upset me.

I know I am really struggling and have to read more on this site, but I need whatever support I can get right now. His family is supportive of his affair, because they have hard feelings towards me because of something that he told them (I don't know what it was). So they feel anything besides me is a blessing and he is better off.

H will be 38 at the end of this month and OW just turned 24. I don't know if he is going through a midlife crisis or what, on top of having bipolar disorder. Of course I have tried to reason with him and that is a lost cause, but I am grasping at straws here. Please someone, help!