Help me out please.

I have recently had an event that has shaken me. Over the last few years, my wife has had issues with fidelity. It seems slightly different from a lot of other scenarios described here, as it only happens when she is really drunk, and, she does not seem very capable of making any efforts to hide it. She is quite smart otherwise.

The most recent event involved her bringing a guy home from the bar to our house, coming and saying good night to me (I was asleep in bed), and then listening to music and having some drinks. And then I came downstairs to discover a bad scene.

The indiscretions have been all similar to this, and I can not make sense of it. Probably 5 times over 6 years.

She has other issues, and had recently started therapy, and seems to be making progress.

So, here are some questions I would appreciate feedback on:

- does the fact that she seems create scenarios where I will find out mean anything? eg., does it show that she wants to destroy or get out of the relationship but is not capable of making it happen herself, so she creates these scenarios where I am forced to consider it

- the last event (which was really more of a close call) than a event, but did involve dishonesty, I pretty much made a decision to leave the next time something happened; I feel that if I do not live up to that, I am being foolish

- none of the relationships are ever ongoing, or anything but physical as far as I can tell - there is a pattern, but it seems more opportunistic / chaotic - I would not deny that there is a component of emotional needs being met (feeling desired etc...) - but am I naive to think that this situation is not as bad as a relationship conducted over time and in sobriety?

On one hand I fear that I am getting better at dealing with this stuff, and that we are working towards a real solution. On the other hand, I feel like I am a doormat in a losing situation, and the challenge of ending the relationship is stopping me from taking action and improving my life

Thoughts?

You need to tell your wife that she has to quit drinking and quit hanging out at bars! My goodness!

We are both fairly social, and I wonder if you think that we could ultimately restore our relationship to the point where we could have enough mutual satisfaction and therefore trust each other enough to ultimately live a normal life without this type of restriction. Do you think that is possible?

I am not against something like this, certainly in the immediate term, but I am not sure it in itself is the solution. I guess I hope that a healthy relationship is a possibility, and while we should have mutual agreement about what we each are doing, I am not sure that it is real if she is on a leash. Am I being idealistic? Can we recover to the point where she can go for drinks with friends again?

I suppose I see the situations being effects of an unfulfilling relationship. I would hope that we could work (hard) to a healthy relationship where this effect would not happen. In the interim I have no issues about limitations, but I hope to work back to trust.

You are upset that the little is bringing OM home to bang while your there. HUMM!

I don't understand how you think it's normal and acceptable for a married person to hangout at a bar and come home drunk.

Why are you putting up with WW going to bars?

You need to read through the articles on this site. Take these events as a wake up call.

Check out "Affair proofing your marriage" and then just keep on reading.

Keep in touch.

Yes, It means your wife in incredibly HOSTILE towards you.

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

1 a: of or relating to an enemy <hostile fire> b: marked by malevolence <a hostile act> c: openly opposed or resisting <a hostile critic> <hostile to new ideas> d (1): not hospitable <plants growing in a hostile environment> (2): having an intimidating, antagonistic, or offensive nature <a hostile workplace>

Your wife has shown that she can not maintain her boundaries when she is drunk. She is irresponsible and thus should not drink and should definitely not be going to bars without you. You both seem to be acting as though you are married singles which is detrimental to a marriage.

I hope you do not have children yet. This would be even worse behavior for a mother.

Read the articles on this site as already advised.

You need to establish clear boundaries in your marriage. #1 = Fidelity with No hanging out in bars with her friends without you.

Your excusing this behavior because she's been drunk is troubling. At this point your wife seems to have zero respect for you and your marriage.

Have you considered getting psychiatric help to find out what would cause you to tolerate your wife having multiple affairs and bringing men into the house?

I see that your wife is a very sick, low bottom alcoholic, but I see that you are even sicker with your complete and total lack of boundaries. You have none, sir. And that is quite scary.

Can you explain why you have absolutely no boundaries? Have you been living in the FUN HOUSE so long that you are no longer connected to any semblance of reality?


You are not even on the same planet with a "solution." Your wife is sick and you are not getting her any help. Your appeasement has made this problem much worse. You are her enabler.

Do you recognize that your wife is an alcoholic? Because of that, I would strongly suggest you get help from Alanon and get some psychiatric help for yourself to find out why you are devoid of boundaries.

But most of all, you must stop enabling her. Your wife is SICK and you are helping her stay that way by tolerating her abuse.

And let me tell you a little story about myself. I am also an alcoholic just like your wife. My last drunk was on April 27, 1985. On that night I also brought a man home from the bar. It was the last time I drank.

At my home that night was my sleeping husband and 2 little boys. I don't remember the man, don't know his name, and don't even remember WHY he brought me home but I do remember one little FLASH through the blackout: this man was in my driveway kissing me just below my bedroom window. My H yelled out the window: "GET YOUR G.D. HANDS OFF MY WIFE."

The next thing I remember, it was the next morning and I awoke in my son's bedroom with my H standing over me. He told me very calmly 'here are your choices, you go to AA and never drink again, or you get on the bus TODAY and go live with your mother in Texas and I keep the boys.'

I decided it might behoove me to take OPTION #1. That night my H drove me to my first AA meeting in Capac, Michigan and sat out in the parking lot. He did that every night for the next few weeks. And here I am 23 years later.

Now, let me assure you that my H was not in the habit of standing up to me. I would not tolerate it. He was a CLASS A pansy who was scared to death of me. I could bust his balls with merely a LOOK. But that morning when he told he it was 'AA or the highway' I KNEW he meant it.

To this day I don't know where ever got the balls to DEFY me, but I will just tell you that he saved my life. My life has changed because of him. I shudder to think where I would be today if he had not done what he did.

And you, Sir, are harming your wife by enabling her destructive behavior. You may not be able to force her to stop drinking but you sure as heck can STOP enabling her. By doing NOTHING, you give her no motivation to change and every day that goes by she gets worse and worse. Alcholics NEVER get better; we only get worse. So, if you continue to do nothing, you can count on this getting worse.

So, your WW is hanging around in bars with strange men, and evidently bringing them home too, even you're in the house.

So, how long have you been M'd?

Any children or joint property involved?

hmmm, are you also an alcoholic? Do y'all use recreational drugs?

Wake up! You have two choices: allow this to continue, or force it to stop. I have to warn you, your wife will hollar like a mutha when you put your foot down about her Independent Behavior.

BUT...she will respect you and love you for sticking by her while she grows up. You two want to party? Fine, have at it. Together. But independent social lives will kill your marriage.

Wow Mel,

As one to another, that hit me up the side of my head with a 2x4.

Thank you, much better than my last meeting.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi all - I really appreciate your responses.

I really do not think we are alcoholics, but I will be honest enough to say that I have never really considered it. I fear that many of you have had unhealthy relationships with alcohol, and this sets you off. I know it will seem like I am dismissing it, but I assure I am not. I will look into it.

For what it is worth, I will better describe in detail the situation. We live in a urban environment and often have social events 1-3 times a week. Often drinks after work, or birthday parties, etc... we are both highly functional / productive, and can easily (eg. not a BIG deal) go weeks without drinking. We do not drink outside of the socially accepted norms (eg. in the morning or during the day). Most often, we drink in moderation, but frequently. We both exercise, and otherwise take care of ourselves.

There is no denying the fact that there are only problems when she has been drinking heavily.

To fairly characterize the situation, events in the past have not been sexual. More like making out.

I suppose I am trying to balance my situation with others I read about on the site, where people have had affairs for years, lie, deceive, drink, etc...

I am trying to get some context. I am not afraid of your harsh advice.

Look, I realize there IS A PROBLEM! I am looking to do the right thing.

My instincts say cut and run. My conscience concedes that over our decade together, I have made my share of mistakes, and a lot of the content on the site rings true (love busters, etc, etc...)

Thanks again for the help so far, and I look forward to more help.

Those are very rare. If you wanted to make a comparison, yours is one of the worst, IMO. The serial cheaters are rare and your wife falls into that category. It should concern you that something is very wrong when you begin searching for the worst points of comparison to make yours seem better. I want you to know that I know that trick. That is a classic trait of an alcoholic to find someone who is worse than them to make them feel better about a bad situation.


Prosen, who do you think could better evaluate a crippled car engine? A master mechanic who has experience or a plumber who has no experience? Would you dismiss the master mechanics expertise as BIAS? Does that seem rational?

If the master mechanic told you that your engine was blown would you dismiss his advice because he had an "unhealthy relationship" with bad engines in the past and run to the janitor? Or would common sense dictate that this man has EXPERIENCE with bad engines and knows how to assess and fix them?

When one does such destructive things under the influence, they have a drinking problem. Anyone who would continue to drink after even one such incident, has a problem. An alcoholic would look for reasons for DENY the problem in order to protect his/her drinking.

Prosen, let me add something very important. The alcoholism needs to be addressed first and there is a reason why. This program is useless in a marriage where there is an active alcoholic. That is why it needs to be ruled out first. If your W is an alcoholic, then you are wasting your time working on MB concepts when the real problem is her drinking. MB concepts are not effective with an alcoholic because it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic.

Secondly, an alcoholic is so destructive and so self centered that the damage to the marriage is insurmountable. This is why the alcoholism must be addressed FIRST in order to work on the marriage.

Very interesting perspective.

It seems to me that most stories posted here are worse than mine, in that they involve greater deceit and overt lying over longer periods of time. As well as more significant physical affairs. My wife has always been pretty honest with me. I posted because my situation seemed different from others I read, and honestly, not as bad. I did not come here to seek redemption or comfort through contrast - I only (perhaps wrongly) felt it.

In terms of the alcoholic assertions, I can only say I appreciate your candor and facts. Maybe she is an alcoholic! I have to say that of all your points, the one about repeated destructive behavior under the influence as an indicator is something I will look into. That fits.

As for myself, I am willing to submit myself to a checkup in that department. Any recommendations?

Thanks, very much.

Really an eye opener with respect to the alcoholic assertion. Any advice on how to assess and approach this? Is there another site I should go to?

Prosen, I am not trying to discourage you about your wife's affairs, but as someone who has been here for 7 years, I can tell you that comparitively speaking, it does not fare well.

But there is no POINT in making any comparison. I just want you to understand that I RECOGNIZE that you are trying very hard to minimize the real gravity of your own situation by looking for the worst common denominator. I know that ploy and recognize it when I see it. That is a sign that we are trying so hard to normalize the abnormal when we have to find the very worst in order to make ourselves feel better.

My suggestion would be to go to Alanon.

Am I right in saying that alcohol is a very big part of your social life?

I need to clarify this comment, Prosen! I do not know or really think YOU are an alcoholic. I have no reason to think that. I should have said it is a classic trait of someone in a dysfunctional situation. Alcoholics do it quite often and I think that their spouses do too. So I apologize if you got the impression I was painting you with the same broad brush. I don't want to muddy the waters here.

Well, I won't argue that it is not bad. Really bad! I take your point with respect to the limited value of comparison.

Am I trying to minimize the real gravity of my situation? It does not feel like that, but I have not considered that much. I feel the gravity.

Why do I seek comparison? I suppose I am looking for help in determining my best next course of action, and through comparison I can assess these options with less bias. Not replacing an honest personal assessment, but aiding it. You seem to think I am in a really bad situation, and I appreciate your perspective.

Alcohol is a central part of our social life. No question. Within my wide social and professional network, it seems that alcohol is a central part of social life generally (I know, you will say I am making excuses). We are pretty active socially though, and I have really had my eyes opened to this (in retrospect obvious) issue.

I will check out Alanon.