Jayne, I've tried doing that a couple of times, saying I'm leaving, but he throws such a fit that I always backed down. Maybe I'm strong enough now to handle it.

But when I hear about cat, ears, Soolee and others taking such efforts to get their husbands places on time, I'm wondering if there's too much enmeshment, or too much taking responsibility for others, or too much protection or parenting? I would never think to remind my H several times a day for *anything*; it would be a huge LB if I said anything more than once. Of course my H is *way* different in that respect.

I understand what you mean, and I agree that it's going to depend on the man's personality how it's going to be perceived.

I also understand what you mean about parenting. However, in my case, I think it also fulfills a need of my own to repeat my intentions, and it makes me worry less to have him hear it again? Does that make sense? I agree that delivery and frequency are going to be differ, depending on the man.

However, the objective is important to consider, imo. If the objective is to be at a certain place on time so that there are no tears, no anxiety, and no subsequent resentment for being made late, perhaps stating your need is necessary and worth while in the long run.

Also...we can do a lot to prepare ahead of time for things. We can take our showers the night before if necessary, have coats, hats, purse, etc., waiting at the door, etc. etc. Preparation is a big deal when it comes to wanting to be some place on time. Take me for instance...Sunday mornings are fraught with frustration, anxiety, resentment, etc. in our house. What would make it easier would be, having learning materials, bibles, and church envelopes filled out and waiting next to my purse. Having clothes clean and ironed the night before, knowing where my makeup is...lol, figuring out what to have for breakfast or deciding if we can afford to eat out afterwards and discussing that with dh...

Just an illustration of having relief for that anxiety easily in my grasp and choosing (for whatever forsaken reason) not to make the situation better. Perhaps the first order of business is not to ask for the help but to ask ourselves first why it is so hard to?

Actually, I think that isn't what should be taken from what I wrote. It is something I need to learn as well. I meant that I could see myself stressing over everyone else's reactions too, when actually maybe we should not take so much responsibility for making sure everyone else gets what they want.

I need to be honest with myself regarding how much time things really take, and notice when I'm late and by how much, and factor in that time plus some leeway next time. For example, I tend to putter around and not go get my shoes and coat on until it's time to be pulling out of the driveway. I finally noticed that it takes about 5 minutes to get everyone in the car, so I really need to start getting shoes and coats on at LEAST 5 minutes BEFORE we need to pull out of the driveway.

Also, in doing tasks: I've noticed that I usually need to double my estimate of how long something will take. I try to do that now; take my estimate, and double it, even if I think my estimate is correct. Worst case, doubling it wasn't needed and I end up with time to spare.

So, having said all that, I think in addition to being more honest and aware of time, I also want to not stress about other's reactions so much; give them some of the responsibility at least, and not assume responsibility for making sure everything around me goes smoothly.

For example, (and I hope this doesn't sound like "If you'd only have done ____...") maybe it would have been good to acknowledge DD's concerns as valid, and ask her what she would like to do to protect her own interests? Instead of reinforcing that she should stuff her concerns and try to not upset you or her dad. I think a friend would've been the best idea; even an hour's drive could be acceptable for a high school best friend, it could've been a bonding time, with the two of them getting ready for the dance together? Maybe she has such a friend, but knew you wanted to take her to those appointments? I don't know, but it could have been empowering to ask her if she had any ideas. Also, maybe you could've taken a cab just back to where the car was, and then driven her back to town then you drive back and rejoin your H.

Hi Soolee,


Yes, this is something I am just starting to learn. I am working on getting better at this. It feels wonderful when I'm not rushed at the end.

Jayne, this is mostly how I handle it. H isn't enthusiastic about taking two cars, and won't go, because this crosses his boundary of not going with people who don't wait for him. Fortunately we've come to accept where we are in this, and he's stopped AOing me about it. If it's something he wants to go to, he's ready on time.

What about the things when he stops you as you are going out the door, like DD's lessons? If he is about to make you late, how would you feel about saying that he can meet you there if he isn't ready in time?

I.e., stop protecting him from his lack of timing/scheduling/planning and his inattention that you are going somewhere or his indecision in whether he wants to go until the last minute.

If it crosses his boundary of not going with ppl who won't wait for him, then fine, I guess he didn't want to go enough to realize he wants to go and to stop watching tv in order to get ready, or enough to drive himself. You could set a boundary of you will not be late to something that you are ready for, unless you desire his company enough that it's worth it to you to be late.

You're right, of course. This is one of the first assignments my IC gave me, and I still haven't had the courage to do it. I will work on it, though.

Jayne, I'm thinking this is probably meant for cat, but I'll respond, too. My H wasn't stopping me about things he wants the kids on time to, like oboe lessons. He was stopping me for things that he was not enthusiastic about, but hadn't negotiated a POJA yet. For example, when I went to Weight Watchers, he'd say, do you have to go now? The kids need help with homework. I would go or not go, but then make an attempt to POJA it, so it would work better next time. I've stopped Weight Watchers for now, because I'm trying to be home in the evenings as much as possible.

I have every confidence that you will not only work on this but actually *succeed*!

You are making great strides and you've come so far. Instead of going along but harboring resentment, you are speaking up. I think it's good for you, I think it's good for your DD to see, and I think it's good for your H too, to give him the opportunity to grow and take responsibility for himself, and also so that he has a more honest view of how you feel about the marriage.

Bears repeating, Cat! You can handle it

This is going to sound a bit hokey, but what if you put your kitchen timer on for 10 or 15 minutes before you wanted to leave? That way, you can say out loud "Oh, there's my timer telling me I've gotta go in 10 minutes - "Daughter, let's get around, it's time to go!" Just to make him focus on the timer rather than on you saying it's time.

Kind of like placing the blame on the dang timer.

Ears, yes I hear you, that sometimes it would be IB to just walk on out the door, especially for something that wasn't POJA. My M prolly has (definitely used to have) too much IB; we go to the opposite extreme of cat's M. But there must be some happy medium. Not that IB, ignoring the wishes of your spouse, is a good thing in a M. But taking too much responsibility for the other person, and protecting them from their actions (or inaction) is not good either.

Right now I'm feeling a lot of Appreciation (close to Admiration) toward my H for not doing such things. If anything it goes the other way, I'm the one who runs late, and H gets himself and the kids dressed most of the time. Admiration: H is way more patient and tolerant than I am, so he's able to get the kids ready with fewer meltdowns. Well, most times. Sometimes I'm the one who steps in and calms ppl down, but it's easier to do that when I wasn't the one in the middle of it.

Soolee, what a great idea!!! I may have to use that. For me, not for H!

Let me know if it worked! LOL

I just want to clarify that, in our house, it's not about AOs (unless I were to stand up to him and say I'm leaving without you). It's all part of that thing he has about doing things on his own time. Remember me saying that, if I say dinner's ready, he will continue to watch tv or work on his computer, until D18 and I have started eating? Or if I ask him to help with something, and he will do it, but not when I ask for it? He'll wait at least a few minutes. Every time. It's something he has always done. I've asked him about it, and he says he doesn't see what he's doing.

I think it goes back to his mom, and her demanding that he do everything for her - and I mean everything, while the other kids had to do nothing. She basically replaced her good for nothing husband with H; in her mind, he WAS her husband, because he would do what she said, and her H was off getting drunk.

So it doesn't matter what the leaving is for, his choice or mine. He will still wait until we are ready and waiting, and then he will make a move.

I might try something like the timer, if I can figure out how to not make it obvious what I'm doing.

Well...you can always turn the time back in the house and in the cars 1 or 2 minutes per day for 10 days too. Sounds bad, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

yeah. I know - bad Sooly

Don't forget his watch. LOL I know I know. shut up,right?

Thanks, cat, for clarifying. Have you tried that Dr. h's UA advice of going over the calendar Sunday, to plan in UA time? For us, it helps us with POJA, too. H and I write the endless stuff that comes home in the kids' backpacks on the wall calendar as it comes home, and the after-school stuff and endless ortho appointments. Then we go over it Sundays together. We also try to remember to check it every day. Bad things happen when one of us or both of us forget! But like Soolee and the timer, than it's a process issue, how can we work our process better. Not a blame-shifting one.

I would definitely POJA that idea first. It is totally crazymaking to think that the clock is accurate and find out it is not. I've had roomates who have done that in the past, for their own benefit, trying to get themselves places.

Cat, have you brainstormed this with your H, too? How does he get to meetings on time at work?

Cat, when you shared about dinner, what do you do? Are you both eating? Growing up, my mom would call "Dinner's Ready!" And when you got to the table, if whatever you wanted was gone already, better luck next time Maybe you need more teenagers over to visit LOL There'd be nothing but crumbs left for him. He'd figure that out and fast!