Thank you FH. I loved this video, although it's not my style I KNOW that my daughter and her friends will relate to it. I can't wait to show it to her. Thanks again.

Actually - I've communicated with him briefly.
He's a devout Christian man.

That's an interesting observation, Mimi.

What, exactly did you find "objectionable" about "his looks" that caused you to not hear what he had to say?

Understand, you CAN be "judgmental," as we are all to some point, but I really am curious as to why you dismissed this young man without hearing anything he had to say?

That doesn't seem so much "judgmental" as it does perhaps an uwillingness to potentially hear any arguments for a position you might not agree with.

I understand, though, as I do much the same with some folks like Chris Matthews (Mr. "tingle up my leg") and Susan Saranden and the bloated Michael Moore and Al Franken. But I HAVE heard them and formed that judgment after hearing them a few times.

Just out of curiousity, then Mimi, if not ALL, is it fair to assume "most?"

Nope..not even MOST..

NOT a FAIR ASSUMPTION AT ALL...

That is not MY BELIEF..never has been...

I am NOT a simplistic thinker...

I don't think you're going to GET ME, FH...

It's like we speak two different languages although I post to you in English and we live in the same world..come from the same generation..probably live in the same part of the country...

We've been through this before and I don't think our differences can be resolved..

My thinking about these matters is way too complicated and multifaceted...and a far cry from your presumptions...

FH:

In fact, to ME, it would be RIDICULOUS to think that MOST people who don't vote for Obama are RACIST.

Do you think that BLACK people who vote for Obama ARE racist? AND/OR BLACK people who DON'T VOTE for McCAIN are racist?

You might(?) since you think MOST BLACK PEOPLE are RACIST.

Do you still feel that way?????

BTW..I didn't know that fellow disagrees with my point of view. I told you I didn't listen to it. I don't like for young black men to dress or come across in that manner. Those are my own personal standards which I could... but don't have to explain.

I'm for FABULOSITY..for both males and females...black or white or red or green or whatever...

Ahhh…and by implication (or contrast with you), I "must be" a "simplistic thinker," right?

Seems to be a bit of another "judgment" on your part, doesn't it?

Mimi, you SAID "not ALL," emphasizing the "ALL." Anytime anyone does that they ARE saying that "almost everyone, but NOT ALL persons," IS what they they are associating their argument with. In this case you associated NOT voting for and supporting Barack Obama as BEING a "racist position," because "NOT ALL" of the supporters ARE, must be some number that falls "a little short of ALL."

And as we'll see later, THAT is precisely the "reasoning" you have used, and apparently still do use, to "judge" ME a racist by YOUR opinion.



Yes, it is possible that we "speak two different languages." I am "second generation" American. I and my family had NO part in any slavery or "racism" that are a part of American history. You, on the other hand, may have such connections in your family history.

My "history" with racism began in College. That's the first place I ever ran into it. The private college I went to did NOT allow any fraternities or sororities on campus, but they DID allow the "Black Students Association," with admission restricted to ONLY Black students. I, and many other "white" students had a Black friend who was "not racist" in that race was not an issue, the character of the person was. Before the school year was out, other Black students made his life miserable and "forced" him to leave school because he had "too many white friends" and didn't "keep with his own kind."

Now, if THAT was NOT racism, what would YOU call it?

NOW you want me to believe that over 90% of Blacks voting for Obama is "Not Racist" is that the "color of his skin" is NOT the "motivating factor" in their voting?

I'm sorry Mimi, but I "see" that in the light of my "experience" from college. The "majority" didn't like "one of their own" having white friends. HE didn't see color, he say friends and similar value systems.

SOME of those voting for Obama ARE doing so because they share his "value system," but if you want me to believe that 90% of ANY group is voting because of a shared value system and NOT because Obama is a "Black candidate," then you must be, as you say, "speaking a different language."




Here we go again with how much more "complex" your thinking is and how much more "simplistic" my thinking is.

And, in fact, my thinking is rather "simplistic" with respect to which candidate should be supported based upon THE defining issue of the sanctity of life. You see, I am a Christian and I do believe that God, not us, is the "giver and taker" of life. There is no way that I would give my support (vote) for someone who is a proven and ardent supporter of "Abortion on Demand" for any reason that any woman may want to choose.

That "for any reason" is precisely the same sort of thing that Jesus addressed with the Pharisees regarding divorce. At the time of Jesus, the "law" of the Israelites was that a man could divorce his wife "for any reason" that he wanted to. All he had to do was to give her a certificate of divorce and he was "free of her," despite his previous CHOICE to engage in marriage. That is precisely what is happening with MOST abortion today, and it is just as much an "abomination" and in opposition to God's Will as it was with divorce in Jesus' day. PEOPLE want to think it's "okay" in order to do whatever they want to do, NOT because God gave His "blessing" on NOT following Him and His Will in the matter.




When it comes to voting for Obama, Mimi, you'd have to be a "dreamer" to think that 90+% of the Black population is voting for him based on anything "more important" than the fact that he is Black. Undoubtedly there are a lot of voters, Black and White, Red and Yellow, and of any "ethnic group," who will vote for Obama because they are also very liberal, but it's NOT 90+% of any of those other "groups." To vote FOR someone based solely on the "color of their skin" IS Racist, Mimi. You can choose to "not think so" if it makes you feel good, but that is the plain fact. 90+% IS "most," by virtually anyone's definition of "not ALL."

"I want 90+% of all your money" IS MOST of your money as just one analogous example.

IF 90+% of White voters were voting for McCain simply because he IS White, then I'm sure you would think that they were being "Racist," or at least that "most" were, in their voting, and you'd probably be right.




No, you don't have to "explain" anything, Mimi. You CAN simply choose to discriminate and be judgmental. That IS your right if you so choose.

However, from a "Christian" standpoint, we are told by God to NOT "look down upon someone" simply because of how they "dress."

But please, if you ARE going to use an "explanation" such as "Fabulosity," a term you may be familiar with but that others may not know or understand the way you do or as you use the term, PLEASE include a definition of what "Fabulosity" means to YOU so we will have an understanding of what you mean and how you apply that term to your judgment of who is worthy of you listening to, even if you might not agree with what they have to say.

FH, don't forget BET (Black Entertainment Television), Black Movie Awards, NAACP Awards, etc, etc.




Only blacks???


oh...okay.


Polling places in inner city Philadelphia are VERY busy this morning. For a part of town that doesn't start hopping till around 11am this is pretty impressive. It's not often that people get to vote for their handouts.

I'm not going to try anymore with you, FH.

Like I said, you just don't GET me...

You are blessed that your "history" with racism began in college. I mean that with all sincerity whether you choose to believe it or not.

I WILL tell you this about me before we part...

My VERY, VERY BEST FRIEND... since age 15...which for me is almost 40 YEARS.. closer to me than my own blood sister is WHITE..we talk intimately about RACE..she is WHITE to me and I am BLACK to her...We LOVE, LOVE, LOVE each other for who we are..all parts of ourselves...she grew up and lives in Montgomery, Alabama..

MY GREATEST ENEMY is also WHITE..my H's (former)OW is WHITE..but I still came HERE and sought help, not considering for once at all, the COLOR of the posters on this forum..I've never even brought it up until now about the race of the OW...

I strive to the depths of my soul...NOT TO BE A RACIST...

I ABHOR RACISM...

Have a great life!

Obama is half black and half white.

Maybe the blacks are voting for the white part.



Really though...


I think the difference comes down to motivations.

Consider the definition of "racism"




Voting FOR someone you identify with (and it's the FIRST time you've been even been given that option) is not truly racism.

Blacks aren't voting for Obama in overwhelming numbers because they think a black man is SUPERIOR to a white man. They don't think that because Obama is black he'll be able to do a better job than a white man. There is no superiority or intolerance.

Whereas, voting AGAINST someone based upon the color of his skin is racism.


IMO, black America is voting FOR Obama much moreso than against McCain.

The Catholics supported JFK, the first Catholic President, in overwhelming numbers. There is always going to be bump when the 1st time happens. Later, when Kerry ran as the second Catholic Candidate...not so much.

Republicans had ever opportunity to be the first to nominate a black candidate for president or vice president and try to benefit from this bump. Sounds more like sour grapes to me.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- I also don't think you are a racist. However, I do see a motivation to WIN this election and that Republican talking points include intentionally and harmfully pointing out time and time again that "90% of blacks are voting for Obama" in hopes of instilling FEAR in the white population. To promote an "us versus them" mentality in order to acquire and motivate an offsetting and actually racist vote. IMO, due to demographics there are FAR more white (and other) racists that will vote AGAINST Obama than blacks voting FOR him. The 90% black vote will merely trim away much of such racist vote. In the end, the white population will, in fact, actually decide this election and it's looking strongly like an Obama victory. Fear isn't working this time. The country has had enough.

Exactly..I have not understood this focus on the "BLACK" vote.

I hope you have a great life too.

And here's the thing, Mimi, I DO "get you."

Your statements and judgments have made it clear.

But as with many Wayward Spouses, they also don't "see" what others "get" about their choices. And then you get things like "God must have wanted me to have an affair, or this opinion, because He 'allowed' me to make my own choices despite what He had already said WAS His position regarding what I had before me to CHOOSE," you the same sort of reaction that you are saying here, "Like I said, you just don't GET me..."

I get you, Mimi, despite your unwillingness or inability to see that.

"Choose ye this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Choices are always before us, Mimi.

And that is precisely what that young man in the video was addressing too.

YOU think I'm a racist. Fortunately, I don't depend upon your opinion for who I am, "Fabulosity" notwithstanding.

I've also listened to the Rev. Wright, and I have a pretty good idea of just what the "message" in Black Liberation Theology IS, and it IS racist and exclusive of all but Black and everyone not "Black" IS, by their definition, racist. They can't, or don't want to, see that THEY are being exclusionist and racist toward anyone NOT Black or who IS White but NOT willing to call anyone "White" a racist(like the shining example of Priesthood, Father Flager).

Read the edit to my post.

Let it be said that I do not embrace BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

Never will..never have...

Oh good grief! Surely you aren't implying that this is racism??? Just because the "other" stations or award shows weren't called "white" doesn't mean that isn't what they have been for YEARS and YEARS...There was no need to call a station "White Entertainment Television" or an award show "White Movie Awards" etc...They already WERE that...Whites have been the dominant race in this country forever...

This stuff is making my stomach churn...

Mrs. W

Mimi...it has little to do with you. It is an attempt to use fear to motivate others to their side. If Republicans can tap into the underlying racists fears of the constituency, they can garner votes for their candidate of choice. They aren't trying to persuade your vote or the black population vote on why they should vote for McCain. The black vote is a lost cause this election cycle...so they attempt to use the "90% black vote argument" as an example of reverse racism in order to motivate the white vote AGAINST the black vote.

If they had even a moderately inspiring candidate it mighta worked too. The problem they are facing is that in combination with the message "vote against the black man" you have to have a message of why to "vote for the white man" so the moderate racist voter won't feel guilty. They've been unable to deliver that message. McCain is anything but inspiring.

I don't have to tell you that racism is still alive and prevalent in this country. I wonder how your treatment would have been different here had you maintained your racial aninimity (I didn't know you were black for about 2 years and it obviously makes no difference to me).

Mr. Wondering

You don't?

Then perhaps if you look up the history of "Uncle Tomism" you might gain a little historical perspective.

Mr. Wondering IS right. A LOT of Black voters ARE voting for "now it's OUR time" for power.

And we've seen the "attitude" toward many Conservative Blacks..."not good enough" because they have "abandoned their people," whatever that means. It certainly implies that "their people" are Black and that "Black Issues" or "Black Power" IS the motivating factor.

Not racism?

Substitute J.C. Watts for Barack Obama and see how much "support" he gets or how "attacked" he gets for "abandoning the Black issues." We've already heard from Rev. Wright and what he preaches and teaches about certain Conservative Blacks in Government. And that IS the teaching that Obama sat under for 20 years....but somehow "missed?"

Mimi...I wasn't referring to you but others. Not just on this board but others too.

You and me are straight....

Mr. W:

And yours makes no difference to me either...

As I said in my previous post, I didn't even think to bring it up...not sure how and why I did..

I betcha my FOCUS was on other things...

GREAT, JoJo..Thanks for responding...

Sorry it took me so long.....even though this 'debate' is captivating.....we had tickets to Monday Night Football last night at FedEX Field in Washington, DC so I was outta here at 2pm yesterday.

GOOOOOOO Steelers....