Ok, got it: when she goes into labor, UNBLOCK THE DEN. I guess she wants to watch tv during whelping???


(Maybe it's a North America thing but at least here, we sometimes call the tv room or the downstairs family room the "den".)

Ok so it weren't that funny.

Oh yes, forgot toadd, I'd love pointers for Ad.!!! I recall you were a pro.

yeah i knew americans called the office the den bit I figured you'd know the animal verson....

I actually like doing the Ad alot more now he is not in an A. Back then I felt limited to just giving Ad that was related to his ability to being able to 'do stuff; because that was all he would let me. Now I can give him Ad for anything that takes my fancy. He particulary likes the lightly saucy ones. Also now I have changed plans I can text him instead of emailing, and I can do it several times a day if they occur to me. For instance, while I was milking I remembered something I had read on an other woman site ( to them, but it was an okay thought) and text him " I have been thinking about your body...yum yum" I can and do also send ILU's a couple of times a day, we have a 'kiss code' he send XxxX XxxX and I send xx xox xx. I tell him he is hot, sexy, that sort of stuff and he does the same and I also tell him how good he is at doing stuff, and thank him for doing stuff or doing something that made me happy. Yesterday I said to him " Thank you for telling the girls they need to talk repsecfully to me, I loved hearing it"

If during the day I hear something or read something that I feel can be slightly changed to become an Ad thing I do and send it there and then, so he gets 2-6 a day. I try to never exceed 6 because of a comment he made once. The example there was I was reading something about a guy being 'sexy enought for 5 men" so I told him he was ..... He rather liked that

Yeah well he thinks its all good

Jayne, our MC assignment for this week was for each of us to make a list of what we admire about the other person. I emailed H mine Monday, and he hasn't even read it yet. Makes sense, and help me understans that my daily my verbal admiration dind't mean much to hi. That's okay, I still do it, it helps me choose my focus. But I don't have the thinking that it will impact him. I asked him, and he said he liks admiration through doing stuff for him (DS). My point is, have you asked your H how he likes to be admired?

Oh definatly Ears, Jayne needs to give Ad in a way her H will accept it. It just seemed at the moment she is not really doing any Ad at all and I thought a bit was better than none.

I only figured out what Flick might like from what he had said in the past, from what sorts of Ad stuff he sends me, and from what he doesnt delete on his cell

Actually Jayne I was talking about you, with him and he said if it is as hard for you to do RC and DS as you say then Ad might be your best shot at filling a need enought that he wants to fill one of yours. He did ask if it would be possible for you to get a house keeper in for a couple of hours a week for the DS side of things.

FWIW the Ad I did today was telling him he was wonderful when he fixed a chat programme, and text saying he was the smartest man I knew, another saying he was hot enuff for 5 men and one saying that he smelt so good in church this morning I had a hard time concentrating

Jayne, how are you doing? Still floating I hope

Have you asked your H how he likes admiration?

I asked him, he just looked at me like I was daft. Like I knew he would. That is sooooo not a discussion of tasks or chores.

He doesn't discuss emotions. He doesn't "do" emotions.

OK so whats the problem. Sounds like he read the guy handbook. Have a look for yourself its on page 1

He's way off the scale even for a guy. It seems that way to me, and our MC said so.

I'm so glad to hear from a guy though. Please if you have any input I'd love to hear it.

I'm curious, *are* there any guys reading this? I just looked to see if I could submit a survey but I think that ability was lost in the "Big Change". So, if you're a guy and you're reading this, it would sure be nice if you'd just reply real fast, even just saying "I'm a guy." Even if you don't have or don't choose to offer advice.

Thanks.

from "When should you tell your spouse "We have a problem":


Ok, I can and have done Step One. Many times. I can also start Step Two, I can *ask*. But I can't make him answer. Hard to POJA if the other person doesn't answer.

From Just Learning post to Nowisthemoment.







I really appreciate the ability of Just Learning to express how many guys deal with feelings. It isn't that we don't have them. We just don't know what they are, or what to do with them. Depending on the type of work you H does will have an impact on how he addresses them.

I was in a corporate boardroom with a number of exec's and account exec's and we were discussing an issue that I can't recall but I do remember a comment about an individual who had responded to some harsh criticism, "Awwwww did I hurt your feeeeellllings?" That message was loud and clear, check your feelings at the door. There is no room for feelings in the workplace. Performance, results, action plans, accountability, responsibility, power, who is in control, authority, competence, ability, strategic thinking, clear thinker, good communicator etc... Nobody puts in the job description must have firm grasp on feelings, can describe how he feels in detail.

I took over a department on a temporary basis that consisted of all women, keep in mind I had previously worked in an all male environment, as described above. The female manager tried to coach me on how she liked to start a meeting. She liked to get everyone to describe how they were feeling by describing a colour that reflects how they feel. Needless to say I was wondering what on earth she was talking about.

What I did was develop a focused operational plan with measurable results, presented, implemented, and monitored the progress. My male boss thought it was excellent, and did not once ask how we felt. Did not even hit the radar.

It is only in the last few years that guys are supposed to be "in touch with our feelings" . They are a foreign language and many of us need a translator. Trouble is they keep changing the language. It is not clear cut. Emotions are messy and unpredictable. Best to be avoided. Stick with sports where there are rules and everyone plays by them, if they don't they get penalized or thrown out of the game.

Isn't that why we get married, so there is someone around who can handle the emotions?

Cheers

Thanks bcb, I really appreciate your input.

Hey, I even recognized the post you quoted! I read it last night I think, and I thought it was really good then. Thanks for putting it on my thread where I can remind myself of it now and again. I think JL is extremely wise and I learn a lot from him.

I still think my H is in the "tail" end of the distribution. I've been married before; I've dated a lot; I'm in a male-dominated field - so much so that in grad school I'd go to Waffle House just to be able to talk to female waitresses for a change. Well almost, anyway. H is less talkative than any other guy I've been involved with romantically or just as friends.

Case in point: even though when he *must* communicate, his preferred medium is email, he would never come here and post. Yet I see lots of guys posting here.


We are in the same field. Think of the top 5 geekiest occupations and I guarantee ours will be in the list.

(Actually, one reason I'd like to know who all reads my thread regularly, is because I wanna know if I've put TMI on it.)


That would boggle me too!


Don't get me started, I *love* talking hoops! That's one thing my friends know they can always use to start a conversation, is by asking how my alma mater is doing. H used to ask occasionally to be polite. I'll even talk hockey if you like, I used to follow the Leafs. I have a game puck from a minor team. One season I started to enjoy football when I was with someone who was 'splaining it to me.

H isn't interested in sports.

He isn't interested in discussing politics. Or even his work.

He will discuss tasks, like to tell me he plans to take the car in for an oil change. That's a major improvement that took about a year, for him to think of sharing that much with me.

He will discuss the pros and cons of the latest thing we're considering buying, *sometimes*.

Another example:

This afternoon we got a lot of snow, a *lot*. There was talk of the schools closing tomorrow, and possibly my evening class getting cancelled. On Wednesdays H is supposed to get the kids because I have that evening class, but he was at home on a big hill with a non-snow-worthy car, so it was decided that I would get the kids and take them home and then come back into town for my class if it wasn't cancelled. On the way up the mtn we got *stuck*. I couldn't go up any further. I called H on the cell phone and he suggested I back up downhill to another road up, or to just turn around to go back into town.

I asked H if he'd stay on the phone while I tried (with DS6b holding the phone so I'd have both hands). He complained, then said "hold on, I'll put you on speaker phone." He couldn't even stop what he was doing on the computer long enough to listen to see if his wife and kids slid off a mtn!

When I tried backing up, I slid crossways so I was really blocking the road, much more than before. A guy in a truck coming downhill stopped and tried to help me, and we eventually got my car mostly in the driveway that was right there. I talked H into calling AAA (he didn't want to, but I was down to one bar on my cell phone battery). While we waited, the guy from the house whose driveway we were in came out and invited the kids into his house so we could try hitching his truck to my trailer hitch and him pulling me on up his driveway. That ended up getting him stuck and me totally in a ditch at about a 70 degree angle. I was afraid I would tip over. I had to climb out the passenger door with his help, and I was afraid my movements would dislodge the car.

A guy from AAA showed up and hooked a winch up to my car and tried pulling... his truck slid a little bit, but it held enough. The guy told me to go into the house to get warm and be with my kids while they finished getting the car on up his driveway. The guy's wife gave me a towel to dry my hair (which was mostly ice) and put my coat in the dryer. They got my car out enough to untie his rope, then got his truck back up his driveway, then got my car up his driveway. Then the guy drove me and the kids home. He stuck around to make sure we got inside cus H wasn't waiting at the door or anything. H comes to the door when the kids ring the doorbell. Then I hear his tires spinning so I go back out there and help him get turned around so he can make it up our driveway. H stays inside.

I go inside, the kids are trying to get warm by the fire, I suggest hot chocolate and H reluctantly starts making it. I ask about dry clothes for the kids and H says I'm welcome to do laundry. Since my hair is full of ice I first get the wet clothes off the kids then I dry my hair a bit then I put some clothes in the dryer. Then I finish drying my hair. All this while H sits in front of the computer waiting for the hot choc. milk to boil.

If the sitch had been reversed, I would've been waiting at the door with some warm dry clothes for the kids *at least*, and some hot chocolate in the making, and some soup. I would've given my spouse a *hug*, and I would've at least greeted the guy who'd spent an hour in a blizzard taking tare of her.

*That* guy talked to me. He said things like, "Why don't you send the kids inside so they can get warm and won't be in the car getting scared while we try to get you unstuck." and, "Don't you need some boots? Are you sure? We can get you some boots if you like." and "Well I think we got you in a much worse position than you were before." and "Well did the election turn out to your liking?" and "How long you lived here? Where'd you move here from?" and proceeded to tell me how long ago he and his wife had moved here, etc.

H just said, "You're welcome to do laundry." and 30 minutes later, since it was obvious I was unhappy, he said "I'm glad you made it home safe."

So I truly think guys can talk. I talk to guys *all day*.

Jayne, I understand what the guys are talking about in regards to feelings. That's totally okay, you weren't asking your H for his emotions. Step 2 asks for his perspective, not his emotions.

And as it says in the Dance of Anger, when you stop doing his "feeling work" for him, and recognize that his emotions are his to process through, he will figure it out, he's a smart guy. Like for example, when you correct DS6b, he doesn't need to acknowledge that he didn't like that behavior, either. He says your discipline is a problem. If they get some time together alone, or you step back from disciplining him, your H may have a different perspective. Or he may blame you for DS6b running wild LOL. That would be good to know, too.

Did you tell him that you are asking about what would meet his need for Admiration because you don't know whether he likes what you are doing, or if he needs something else?

Jayne, when my dad walked out on us, he didn't know what he wanted from life. Like that bad giver analogy, he never told my mom what she did that he didn't like, nor ask her to change it. He didn't know what he wanted, so he didnt ask her. Yet he says the reason that he left was not the other woman he found. It was that he had become very unhappy, and didn't think he'd feel better while he was with my mom. I share this because I want you to understand why I hope you don't let this sleeping dog lie.

Now, I could be totally wrong. Maybe your H is not like my dad was, depressed into a stupor. Maybe he is very content, and fails to respond to your thoughtful requests and negotiation attempts for some other reason that you haven't discovered yet.

Jayne, you said you didn't like your Plan A. And I think that when you are getting it right, you will know it. That it is that reality-bringer, and you won't be hard on yourself. Jayne, you used to come across different in your posts, more confident that everything would be okay. Now you sound more stressed and agitated. May just be the move LOL, but it was even before that. Are you still feeling that way? I wonder if you are turning that anger inward because you are trying so hard to protect him from the consequences of his actions?

He just seems unhappy to me. Like he doesn't want to be there. Sorry to say that, but it really sounds like it to me. Like he's begrudging you any of his time. He only does it because you're still living in the same house.

No, I tried to do it in a light-hearted way, so I asked him when we were having a good interaction and I was hugging him. I forgot what we were talking about, but something like admiration came up, maybe I had just thanked him for doing something, and I said something like "Ears wants me to ask you how you'd like me to show you Admiration." Something like that.


Thanks for sharing that and offering me that heads-up warning. I've just assumed that he just plain doesn't "do" emotions (and by that, I mean not even the normal "guy" emotions: yelling at the tv when his team is winning/losing; getting excited about something (he does that a little); getting angry when a bad driver cuts him off; feeling jealous; missing me or the kids when we've been apart). But I may be wrong. I think I'd started getting a little inkling in the back of my head that perhaps his lack of emotion signified a depression, and now you and cat both bring it up. Maybe there's something to it.

I'd *really* be interested in hearing from any guys who are reading, who might be able to help me understand H. Just please understand that I am around guys all the time and I know the kinds of emotions guys generally show and the kinds of things most guys like to talk about. Given that, can you help me understand *H*?


I'm gonna have to give this some thought. I hadn't realized that my tone had changed that much.


I don't think I'm the type of person to protect him from consequences. Is there something I'm not seeing? Can you tell me how you think I might be doing this?

Thanks.

Like when he makes unilateral decisions, like deciding that no you all are going to get sparklers later and do what he wants now, you act on his decision as if it is something that you are enthusiastic about, when you're not. Instead of being honest and saying, that's not what I want to do. I want to get them now, and go to your thing later. Let's brainstorm a minute together before we go. How about we take two cars, and I'll pick up the sparklers and meet you at that other thing.

Jayne, I understand that I get details wrong sometimes, and I may have not remembered them accurately here, either, but I mean in a more general sense, I see you angry with yourself because you were going along with things that you are not okay with. Am I getting that right? Like the childcare thing where you brought the kids back to work with crayons. Are you enthusaistic about these things?

Oh yes, I remember now.

No I think you're right, I just wasn't recognizing those things as me protecting him from consequences. Like the tour of the Parliament Bldg also, I didn't say "No that isn't the decision we made when we both discussed it, I don't think the kids are up to such a tour, you go on by yourself and the kids and I will go to the museum as we planned." I didn't want to waste the money he'd spent, and I didn't want to disappoint him about the tour he wanted.

Thanks for helping me see those things, I didn't recognize them. I just feel the resentment, I don't recognize what's happening.

I'll tell ya one thing he wants that I am now wholeheartedly enthusiastic about: an ATV with a snowplow attachment. He's been out there for over an hour, and he's cleared about two feet of the driveway. And the snow is still coming down.

There's three feet of snow and it's still coming down, and we have a reasonably long driveway, maybe 50 yards? and it's uphill.

And we only have a little Honda CRX here, the Subaru Outback is halfway down the mtn in that other guy's driveway.

I think the snow is taller than the Honda!