To the WS's or former WS's out there....

I am a betrayed spouse (twice), and want to know if you feel that you have it good? The reason why I am asking, is because I have these moments of anger & rage, inbetween my Plan A. I have those feelings when I am alone and have no distractions.

My brief story: My H & married OW met at a bar and exchanged phone numbers. They had a 2-week phone/text EA, with plans on meeting in person the next week. That was until my H freaked out and stood her up. After one week of NC (on his own) and feeling guilty for standing her up, he leaves her a text that says, "Hi." She immediately leaves him a voicemail so that they can start up again.

He freaks out again, and ignores her calls, hoping all of this will go away. During the 2 weeks after he began ignoring her calls for a second time, he is depressed, acting paranoid, and I suspect something is up. I snoop and find the voicemail and text messages on his cell phone, which he never erased.

He told me that he has been feeling like a jerk, guilty and ashamed to have placed himself in this situation again. He felt he had 2 options, 1) come clean and tell me all, or 2) ignore her and she goes away, with the risk and hope that I never find out. He chose option #2. However, being a betrayed wife (his first EA/PA, DD was 9 yrs ago), I sense that there is an air of deceit all around me. That is why I snooped.

Now, my question....

Since DD (10/29/08), I have been relucantly Plan A'ing my H and feeling like a doormat. Actually, I feel like ringing his neck and screaming profanities at him. So far, he is doing everything that a good H is supposed to be doing.....but I feel that my H has it so good. He is a 2nd time offender, got to be a freakin' cake-eater, and then he is getting treated well by me (because of Plan A).

WS's and FWS's.....do you feel that you have it good because you got to have your A, and then come home to your BS and get treated well? What are your honest opinions on this?

I am about to ask my (f)WH this. I think I did already but I need to hear the answer again. It is frustrating that they could go out get their fun,come home and there is BS who is will to accept them and start over. It is so sicking to me at times. Especially since they basically get over it faster as it is the past to them, but to us it is new and we are in shock that they can ever do that.

Hmmm...let's think about this.

BS: Extraordinarily high level of anger/rage, high level of sadness/depression, loss of self-esteem, loss of trust, realization that your spouse could've killed you or permanently infected you through STDs and didn't care. Realization that the WS also stepped out on any kids you have, not just the BS. Having to decide between divorcing the person you loved enough to marry, or swallowing your pride and dignity and taking the WS back.

WS - Guilt, plus memories of getting some strange that probably still make them tingle to this day, whether they'd ever admit it or not.

When a WS speaks of their "horrible guilt", it makes me want to puke.

Boo-frickin-hoo, you feel guilty after you chose to have sex with someone new and exciting. You poor thing.

I agree with Krazy. My OW told me that she was "sorry" and that I probably would never believe her that she's really not that bad and I have to think she's bad to protect my M.

Guess what? She IS bad. And it's TOO LATE for sorry. She had three and a half years to decide that she was doing the wrong thing and stop! It wasn't like she didn't know that my H was M with children!

And now? My guess is that OW is living a pretty normal life with her BS. She's a POS in my book and yes, I think she is probably "guilt-ridden" up until the moment she slips into bed with B.O.B. and thinks of MY HUSBAND!

MS

ANewB...

I get mad remembering that my H thinks that exposure was a "relief" for him. Geez.....what's there to be relieved about? We are only beginning and it isn't going to be fun!

Krazy...

Thanks for your opinion. As a BS, I am on this stinkin' emotional rollercoaster. At times, I feel okay....then, later on, I'm angry as (you know what). I don't feel a loss of self-esteem, so that is good. During his first A, I felt like I had no self-worth, until I realized that I wasn't the one to blame for having the A. He chose that, just as he made that choice again.

Unfortunately, after that 1st A, I contracted an STD and had to get treated. He had to get treated. Wouldn't you think that would turn him off from the OW? Of course, it didn't. She's the freakin' victim in all this. What a warped mind he had in those days. I reminded him that he could've killed me.

This 2nd A, he hasn't had sex with her, but there was enough sex-talk in those stupid text messages to have one.

I don't understand why the WS don't feel guilt while they are choosing to have an A. If they felt guilty, don't you think they would stop themselves?? Or, maybe they're just plain weak?!

If I'd gotten an STD, OM would be the victim. I'd make sure of that.


Because they think with their crotch. Their desire to have sex with OP far outweighs their level of guilt.

MogiSola....The OP is so weak and delusional. I remember during my H's, 1st EA/PA, the OW wrote me in an e-mail, "He said that his marriage is over."

All I could think of was, "If it is over, then why does he keep coming home to me??? Why is he not seeking a divorce???"

Then, my brilliant H tells me, "She isn't a bad person. Her H physically abuses her."

Uhhhh....."I really don't care. It isn't any of my business, neither should it be yours. She chooses to be in that situation. By the way H, you are abusing me also, with your infidelity."

You know....one year after EA/PA #1, the stupid OW contacts my H again, to start up the A again. Anyone going to tell me that the OP is a good person??

Fast foward to 7 years later, and it still irks me when I think of the stupid things that my H did and said during EA/PA #1.

Now, with this 2nd short-term EA, he says that OW needed to talk to someone about her bad marriage. I asked him, "Who do you think you are, a doctor or a counselor??" She isn't even a friend. She's some strange OW that you met in a bar. What are our WS thinking, when they make these decisions?? Why can't they think of how their poor decisions can affect their marriages & family before they do it?

Because they think with their crotch. Their desire to have sex with OP far outweighs their level of guilt. [/quote]

....sorry, this isn't funny, but it's such a cliche that I had to chuckle.

Mine constantly tells me he is sorry but in the same breath will pick up his phone and call OW for support and consoling. I get so angry when I hear "Im sorry" from him cause to me you are not sorry if you plan on doing nothing to make it better and keep screwing up over and over again. He also tells me constantly that she is a good person and that she didnt ask for this and it was not their intentions to get in this deep but that is bull **** cause she knew from day one that he was married with 2 small kids and going through a tough time in his marriage, she saw that as an opportunity to steal him away and played on that. To me that is not a good person at all. She has emailed and called me to say sorry and I just laugh cause she is Sorry but not the way she is trying to say it. I get angry cause WH comes home and stays in bed all the time while I take care of the house and kids, so he can sulk and think about OW. Sometimes I get so angry that I just let the kids be as loud as they want so I know he cant sleep, then he can be as aggrevated as I am. Its like they want everyone to kiss their feet and just wait for them to figure out what they want and its all on their time. Thats wrong. It should be on our terms not theirs. In some ways this world is just so screwed up.

I know you were asking F/WS's, but since a bunch didn't answer, I thought I would give my opinion.

In the end, yeah I think F/WS's have it good. I understand they may have guilt or feel ashamed about what they did, but overall in cases of recovery, I think they came out ahead.

I only say this because in most cases that I have observed, the WS was unhappy with life or the M, the BS was happy (or maybe unhappy, but not to the level of the WS), the WS goes off and gets to experiment with ways to be happy, then leverages that into renegotiating the "terms" of the M. When these renegotiations occur, the BS is almost always in the weaker position because generally they want the M more than the WS.


Lots of reasons. Some don't think they are "choosing", but rather it's "destiny". Some don't think you will ever find out, so no one will get hurt and thus no reason to feel guilty. Still others separate out the "cause and effect" of things. Meaning they feel guilty this is happening to you, but they aren't "doing" it, its just an unfortunate circumstance of the situation.

Hi lost...

I know exactly what you are feeling. When my H was in the midst of his first A (9 yrs ago), I had our 2 small kids while he was out galavanting and sleeping at her house. Then, he'd come home the next day during lunch, to change, eat, have laundry done for him....then, wouldn't come home again. It was a revolving door nightmare.

Of course, OW wasn't the bad one. She was in an abusive relationship and my H had to save her. Isn't that pathetic? He did all kinds of crappy things to me & the kids, and she's the one who needed saving??!!!

My H's 2nd A, this new OW was also in an unsatisfying marriage. She needed someone to console her and befriends my H. I asked my H, "Who do you think you are? Are you a professional counselor or doctor?? Why do you care what problems this OW & her H are having, when you don't even know them?? Why isn't she confiding with her close friends or family? She needs to go to her own H and not you!"

Ughh....so stupid! It sounds like your H is totall addicted. Does he call her from your house, right in front of you? Does he want to R? It's unbelieveable how WS sees OP as innocent!

rprynne,


Thanks for answering my post. Interesting point of view, by the way.

I was pondering on one of your quotes...

I only say this because in most cases that I have observed, the WS was unhappy with life or the M, the BS was happy (or maybe unhappy, but not to the level of the WS), the WS goes off and gets to experiment with ways to be happy, then leverages that into renegotiating the "terms" of the M. When these renegotiations occur, the BS is almost always in the weaker position because generally they want the M more than the WS.

During my FWH's 1st EA/PA (9 yrs ago), he denied everything. Then trickles of the A started to emerge til he finally admitted to it. By that time, and riding on months of an emotional rollercoaster, I was ready to leave him. He begged for another chance and didn't want to be D. It's ironic how when he was hiding his A, he was saying "I don't think I want to be married anymore." (talk about fog-talk!)

It's the same pattern with FWH's 2nd EA. First he denies, then gets caught....I tell him that I don't want to do this again and want a D...and BOOM! All of a sudden he's begging.

It seems that when I show him that I'm not afraid to be alone, it's like he has some kind of wake-up call. It's really patethic. Actually, I feel more empowered because I feel like he needs me, more than I need him.

Now, I feel like I have to learn to love him again because I'm questioning myself, as to, if I still do.

It is. Bear in mind, I think the "negotiation" of the terms of the M is a sub-conscious thing rather than something a WS plans out.

But to me, what you describe is at first his new terms offered were "How bout I keep the A, stay M to you, and you pretend like the A isn't happening." When you reject that offer, he is left to actually decide whether he wants a D or not. Looks like so far, he doesn't really want a D.

But once you make the call, and if it is to reconcile, I imagine he will be right back to negotiating favorable terms for himself. And like I said, usually the BS is more interested than the WS in recovering the M.

I don't evny the decision you are trying to make. I tend to agree with Dr. H, that if someone does this twice, that you should move on. If you do decide to give him another chance, I would set the bar so high that you would be stunned if he cleared it.

Gonna barge in and not comment much on whether the WS's got it good or not; some do, those who really aren't invested in the marriage, yet stay; some don't--those who are truly repentent WS's who feel dirty and guilty for what they've done; those who truly love their spouses and were blinded by lust or whatever you want to call it.

Now, in your case, I'd have to say it's time for your WH to put up or shut up. That means HE takes the initiative to fix this marriage; he does all that you require of him. With a repeat offender, I fear that you have more in store for you in the future if you do not put up some pretty strong boundaries. Just my measley $.02.

In my case, I heard a lot of what I wanted to hear, but the actions did not follow. In your case, I think you Plan A for a VERY SHORT TIME, and go directly to a strong, silent Plan B. I would call the Harleys, though, to get their opinion.

rprynne & silent,

Thanks for your input. My WH seems to be truly repentent. So far, he has done what I have asked. I told him that he needs to remember that HE wanted this recovery, not me.

This Thurs, we will go to MC. I am extremely disturbed by the fact that he is a "repeat offender." I want to get to the bottom of it. I'm hoping that MC will help with answers.

I'll keep posting. It should be an interesting Thurs with the MC.

Hi, Maribel4. I don't know why I'm replying as I feel like I'm stepping into the lions' den here. I am a FWW and you posed this question to me, so I'll answer.

First, I'm sorry that you're doing this dance again. It must be horrible for you. I can't imagine...

I do not have it good. My PA felt fantastic for perhaps a few weeks of the 3+ months it lasted. The fantastic feeling was when I was in communication with my FOM -- when we were sharing stories, laughing, talking life, and yes, having long-distance sex. But when I was in the company of my H, it was horrible because I was a liar. I don't have the space here to give you the background on my M, the affair, and where I am now, but if you want all the gorey details, you can look at my post under Recovery called "Hubby Now Cares. Do I tell of A?"

In short, my H and I had been having marital problems for a few years. My PA was for 3+ months earlier this year. My H and I finally got into counseling the end of this past August. I confessed my PA to my H 2 weeks ago.

It has been he**. My H has it much worse than I do, I know. The BW has it worse too. But I do not have it good.

I am forever labeled a liar and cheater. Despite doing many good things professionally, in my community, in my church, and with my fabulous children, I will always be an infidel. I have a scarlet letter tatooed on my chest and I know it's there -- along with my family, his family, close friends, our pastor, and people in our community.

I lost a person who had previously been a good friend -- the FOM before he was the OM. We were friends within a group of great people and because of this secret and disgust I have about myself, I have very little contact with those people any more -- folks who were among my closest friends for nearly 6 years.

I am unemployed. I was layed off but didn't fight it much anyway, knowing I have to be away from the FOM.

My H is hurt like I've never seen in anyone and I am responsible for that. We have strangely had the best talks since my confession -- the hardest, most painful, honest, open, long, emotional discussions ever. I haven't felt this close to my H since I was pregnant with my son 8 years ago. We're finally communicating and sharing, including hugs and compassion for each other. Yet I've likely lost my H because he says he feels strongly that he has to leave me now.

So having it so good??? Maybe for some WS. For me, no. I loved my H and was in this forever. But things got really tough and instead of trusting in us, I blew it. I have no OM (which is good), I have no job, I have no respect, I will likely have no H, I have few friends, and I am consumed with shame. I could have held the secret and then some of this would not have happened. But then I would have an early grave because the lie was literally killing me.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I am no victim. I'm just answering your question. For some WSs, it might indeed be good or better. For me, it's been only bad. If we make it through and somehow recover our M, I'll always have the memory of how I selfishly destroyed the man's heart that I had promised to take care of. And whom I want to take care of mine.

And there you have it. I can't speak for your H. I don't know if he has it good. I can't speak for other WSs. This is only my story and where I am today.

Thanks, Looking.

It's a useful perspective that BS's have trouble with sometimes. I, for one, wouldn't trade places with my WS for anything.

You must be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!! My H DID treat me well, but only to the extent that he was determined our marriage was going to succeed. He was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER a doormat after my A. He made it very, very clear how hurt, disappointed and angry he was. Very clear indeed. It would have been ridiculous and dishonest if he'd pretended everything was okay.

But..... he was determined we were going to make it. He tried to understand, he listened to me, he didn't call me names, he didn't push me away, he treated me with respect.

I did NOT feel good that I caused that much hurt to the person I love. I did NOT feel good at all.

Maribel,
My WH goes back and forth with what he wants to do. One day he acts like he is here and going to make it work and start the process to get over the OW and then the next day he has contact OW and is now pushing me away and giving me the silent treatment. HE goes to OW for advice not me. Like she is really going to help the situation...lol
I just got fed up with the silent treatment and him continueing to contact her against my wishes (no he does not use home phone, he uses his cell which he knows I check the records or she leaves him voicemails or texts and then he calls from the office phone so I cant see that he is talking to her) I tried to sit down and talk to him and got reamed out because he didnt feel like talking so I told him he needed to leave the house or I was taking the kids and leaving myself cause I was not standing for being treated like this anymore. I told him he needed to make a choice now, her or our marriage. He couldnt decide and said it wasnt that easy. He left for work and said he didnt want to make a decision out of anger for fear that he would regret the decision he made, so he asked for me to just let him deal with this and figure out his thoughts. Well I dropped it for the day and then Saturday I found a letter he wrote to OW, telling her to wait for him and that he loved her and the best was yet to come. How addicted he was to her and how he cant seem to think of anything else but her and for her to show him how much she loved him and in time they would be together. I couldnt keep with plan A, I screamed and cried and packed my bags and the kids and told him I was leaving. He swore to me that he didnt send the letter to her but it was the fact that he took the time to write it and actually thought that way and had the nerve to come home and make plans with me. I was so close to walking out and if I didnt have church the next day I would have been gone. I refused to speak to him and then it hit him, finally he saw that it was going to be over here and he needed to think fast or suffer the consequences. Well he told me yesterday he is ready to make it work, he is so sorry for hurting me and the kids and ashamed of what he did. But he said it is going to be hard and he doesnt know how to do it but he is going cold turkey with OW. He says he really feels strong for her and he cant believe he let it get out of control like that but he has to think of his family and me and try his hardest. He has questions that the feelings for her will actually go away or are they real. I try to tell him what I learn from here and i have had him read about withdraw and the addiction but he still gets confused. I hope this time he is ready to really fight the addiction and not give in cause the OW really puts up a fight. I know we arent doing this the MB way (no contact letter and all that) but I have to take the steps that he is willing to go. He is stubborn and I am atleast happy that he is taking this step again to focus on the marriage. I pray that it works this way and we can get through it. He drowns himself in work to keep himself occupied, but it worries me cause she knows where to find him and she has gone there before, he cant move jobs easily cause of his work it would destroy his retirement. I need to figure out how to fill the void he will have from missing her. I have 2 kids so I cant give him all the attention but I try to give him as much as possible. I need him to see that the In Love or Romantic love between us will come back, I just need to figure out how. That is one of his biggest holdups, can he feel the same about me again, he says he knows he loves me but did we lose so much during this that it wont come back. any suggestions?