I guess it may not necessarily be revenge; But it is documentation/teaching/vindictiveness/whatever!


My H's OW, came on to him; it was a sort of ONS/once he figured out what was going on, he quit it (read, in the middle of said act). Please don't discount this yet. Our DS has been Dx'd w/Asperger's Syndrome, and I'm pretty darn sure my DH has it also.

The OW is now a teacher (2nd Gr); and I'm having issues. She's the only one I've never been able to not give a NC letter too. (Due to DH's indication of NC, and my follow up) I'm struggling for many reasons and need the OF's (ie: Old Folk's (not age, but experience)) help... please!

I'm struggling with being vindictave due to her lack of morals, values; when she's shaping those young children... I've issues with the fact that she's a teacher and doesn't/didn't give a squat about Asperger's (she doesn't know); about morality, about boundries (she knew he was M'd, had already met me)... I really want to write a NC/boundrery/this is what you did letter.

Please, please, I value your opinions... please advise. Lead me in the correct direction...


added* Asperger's not marked; on the mild for DS and I'm guessing for DH. Lack of reading social situation, some OCD with numbers/organizing/grouping... Don't know if this really has anything to do with the cheating or not. If it does, want to teach S; and want's H to learn...

The boy who molested our sons had been diagnosed with Asperger's, which the mother then took as the catch-all reason for her sons offenses to AT LEAST 6 children.

Our therapist said that had nothing to do with it - Asperger's does not cause sexual acting out of that nature. I'm not sure your WH would be able to claim it as a defense, either, even if he were diagnosed.

I, for one, would have a problem with an adulteress teaching small children, no matter the state of the WH. Do you have proof that you could expose to her employers? It is my opinion that doing the right thing should be what is paramount, and not motives - good or bad. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Your justified resentment and anger will fade with time. What's right will not.

Neak-

Neither I, nor my H blame the Dx; for my S or (potentially) for my H. In fact, since... we've been trying to teach it as a "difference" not an issue/problem. ie: All kids are different and have those differences to deal with. Some kids differences are strengths and some are weaknesses, and it's what you do with those differences that matters. We have not used the word "Asperger's" with my DS.


I have the word of my H as to what happened with the OW. I know, we're not supposed to take the WH at his word... I have my issues with it, but regardless... She did what she did with my H, and then left their mutual job (immediately) to be a teacher. She taught the 3rd G last year; and I now found her teaching 2nd Gr this year in a different school. They are/were both small schools, and I would be able to do a NC letter w/ the boundery of a newspaper ad. I would do it w/o hesitation. I'm just wondering... There is no verifiable (sp) contact. Not since the initial contact.

I would not want her teaching my child... but do I expose when there is no/has been no contact for the past 2 years...

This is something I've been sitting on for awhile... I've been around here enough to know who's opinions I value, and yours is one of those...

... And Neak, I'm sorry for what your Ds's have experienced. No child/children should ever have to go thru something like that. Ever...

Please OF's, give me some advice, when you get a chance... Will consider ANYTHING!!!


<-- going to bed, cuz I'm in the PNW (Pacific NorthWest) and I'm tired


Still want to hear ideas/opinions, though!


Thank you!

Thank you, BR.

If there has actually been NC for 2 years, exposure may not be the right route, unless she has a apouse or SO.

An NC letter just from you - is that what you're asking about? And telling her that you know, etc.? If that's the case, and she is not making any contact attempts herself, I would say probably not a good idea, just from what you've said. If there is more info, feel free to share.

Also, your H's version of this seems slanted, to say the least. Is he still dishonest on any other issues? How well has he addressed recovery? What, if any, actions has he taken so that you can feel completely safe?

If his actions have been less than ideal, or you think he may still be dishonest with you, that could be the root cause of your feelings. I do think if you had gotten what you need from him already, you might be less likely to be looking for a closure of sorts from the OW.

BR,

There was a thread here a few weeks ago started by Mike_C2 that talked about rage and anger with OP. I sense that you are feeling alot of that. It's quite natural. Anyway, I'll bump the thread for you and you may want to read through it when you get a chance.

Mindshare

Bottlerocket,

I'd take all of the evidence I have and give it to the principal and the local board of education. They tend to take this stuff seriously.

Rake her over the coals. She deserves it.

BR -

I am in the same boat as you...trying to get past the revenge/vindictiveness for OW. I have all sorts of contact information for her and could easily expose it to everyone she knows including her work, but there has been NC for almost a year now and I don't think it is a good idea.

Often I look at what my motivation for doing something is...am I trying to help my recovery or am I trying to hurt OW? I sent a letter to OWH but only after it was clear to me that the letter was for MY healing, not to attempt to hurt OW's M. Not that I don't have a strong desire for her to hurt, I just don't think that those actions are beneficial to me. And in the end, that's what counts.

Someone on this forum said, "Revenge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die." I think that is very well said. Find the grace within yourself to let her go...the world will take care of her. God will take care of her. It is not your place to punish her.

As for her being a teacher, yeah, I get what you're saying about morals, but teacher's are human. They sin just as much as the next person. It doesn't mean that they teach their students that sin is acceptable. I am sure that there are many incredible teachers who have committed unsavory acts that never affected their ability to teach. I understand that teachers SHOULD hold themselves to a higher moral standard, but I don't know how fair it is to expect that they will always make the right choices.

Just my 2 cents...

MS

I don't know where you stand with religion, but I have been working hard to find a sort of forgiveness for the OW...not because I think she deserves it, but because I see that my lack of forgiveness for her creates evil within me. And I have already sacrificed WAY TOO MUCH of my life to this OW...I'm not willing to carry the burden of revenge around too.

Here's a prayer that I have been saying every day...trying to learn to let go.

“Lord, thank you for your unending and unconditional forgiveness. You show us that forgiveness is a strength and should be given to all, especially our enemies.

Help me to find the strength and grace to forgive those who have trespassed against me and my family.

I forgive my FRIENDS who have let me down, lost contact with me, do not support me, were not available when I needed help, gossiped about me.

Lord Jesus, I especially pray for the grace of forgiveness for the ONE PERSON in life who has HURT ME THE MOST.

I ask to forgive anyone who I consider my greatest enemy, the one who is the hardest to forgive or the one who I said I would never forgive.

Thank You, Jesus, that I am being freed of the burden of unforgiveness. Let Your Holy Spirit fill me with light and let every dark area of my mind be enlightened. AMEN.”

MS

I guess that I am seriously in the minority here but I have never really held any animosity for the OW in our situation. I feel sorry for her. I feel sorry for her family. I am saddened that she is immoral enough to commit adultery but other than that, she is nothing to me. Her unfaithfulness was toward her H. My H could have been anyone to her. I have no vows with her, no love, no history, no committment. I don't even need her apology any more than she needs my forgiveness and at one point, I called and told her that just a point of closure for myself.

I occasionally pray for her and her BH and their M and their children but I have never dwelled on it. I had enough trouble forgiving my DH and recovering our M. He was unfaithful to me. He betrayed our vows. In fact, in thinking back, I can't remember a single text that she sent my DH but after almost a year and a half, there are a couple that my DH sent her that I remember word for word and don't know if I will ever forget.

Unforgivenss just breeds resentment which breeds bitterness and I can't let someone as pitiable as her occupy my time or thoughts. JMHO.

God's Blessings,

Say

To the best of my snooping, there has been NC since the situation occurred. I don’t know if she has a SO or not, she did when this happened, and that is how I found out. He worked with her and my DH, and he confronted my DH and “made” DH tell me. DH has maintained that he had wanted to tell me for so long, but couldn’t bring himself to do it.

You’re right, his version is slanted, which is to be expected, even with a “normal” situation. I tend to believe his version, mostly, although I know the facts fall somewhere in between his truth and her truth. I tend to believe him, because I’ve seen his interaction with attractive women before; and the way he described the events that led up to the situation fits. It’s how the situation ended that I question. He says he literally stopped right in the middle of the act, and ran. The part that made sense to me with him saying that is that the OW never tried to contact him again. Upon D-Day, I’ve had email passwords and phone availability.

I’m wondering if they were “involved”, wouldn’t she try to have some type of closure, or something? Is it possible for an un-Dx’d Asperger’s guy to not be able to read a social situation (which he still struggles with), end up F’ing a hoor because she presented herself fully naked, she took down his pants, she put the condom on, and he says that once his brain kicked in, he thought WTF, and immediately stopped. Is that possible? Is it plausible??

He has been as transparent as possible, to the best of my knowledge; I have phone and email; He ‘checks’ in continually; he states he will not be one-on-one, in any situation, with a non-relative female; he gives me all details of work each time he needs to go out of town; he easily and readily did NC letters to toxic people.

Even with all of that, I’m having issues. I think it’s because he’s out of town so much for work, and a lot of that time is unverifiable; we have horrible communication skills; he won’t commit to IC or MC (he says because he’s out of town so much, and his schedule changes from week to week, so it’s extremely difficult to get an appt. last minute, or to cancel continually- he works construction); he has not read any of the books I’ve gotten (he says he’s not a reader, so I offered book on cd, and he says he doesn’t know when he’d have time to listen to that, because he’s not going to listen to them in front of the “guys” while they travel to their job); we haven’t been on a date or out to lunch in months, when he did that a lot after D-Day.

I just don’t see how he’s as emotionally committed to our R as I am; Could that be part of the Asperger’s?? In his defense though, I am not good with DJ’s and LB’s, and have been in IC since D-Day to address my own stuff.

If I was you, I'd leave the Asperger's out of the equation.

Ahhh Krazy, I wish I could do that, but I’m trying to be the better person here… if we weren’t actively trying to R I’d do just that. I really wanted to take out a newspaper ad announcing to each town she worked in exactly what she did, each time she changed schools!

MS- Thank you so much for your input, and your beautiful prayer. I agree with you on the time passing, it’s just been too long w/no contact for me to be able to justify it to myself. And I wholeheartedly agree with this “Often I look at what my motivation for doing something is...am I trying to help my recovery or am I trying to hurt OW? I sent a letter to OWH but only after it was clear to me that the letter was for MY healing, not to attempt to hurt OW's M. Not that I don't have a strong desire for her to hurt, I just don't think that those actions are beneficial to me. And in the end, that's what counts.”


I often print out snippets of gold that I find on MB and hang them on my bathroom mirror. Your prayer is one that I’ll hang up to be read each morning! Thank you!


Say- by now you may have read the paragraph in my post above about the events that happened to make the ONS occur, that’s why I blame her. She didn’t know my DH couldn’t read social cues, she thought he was making advances, when to him he was just being friendly; and then when presented with the opportunity he didn’t turn away. I blame him for not turning away fast enough, but I blame her for presenting herself in such a way.

This has been a fight between my H and I since the beginning. He’s friendly, flirtatious, and he thinks he’s being nice. I can’t tell you how many times I had to tell him to cool it, that XYZ is getting ideas that he’s interested, he always told me that I was being jealous, and there’s no way XYZ likes him in “that” way, and he doesn’t like her in “that” way.

He’s learned now that flirting with anybody but me is a no-no, that it means he’s telling somebody he’s sexually available when he’s not. His words.

He feels a lot of shame, grief and pain with what he’s done. I just wish he’d get some IC to help him, which would thusly then help us.



OMG, sorry for the long posts!

I hear ya Krazy.

I guess my thought is that if there is truly an organic causal proponent, that can be remedied, wouldn't we want to do that?

I absolutely know that he didn't cheat BECAUSE of the Asperger's.

Your biggest problem is that he has poor boundaries, values his job above what is good for your M, and has only made a half-way half-hearted recovery attempt. Then, when you don't feel safe after all that, he puts it all on you by saying you're just jealous.

What you need to do is pick your hill to die on.

What is the minimum you are willing to put up with and still call it a marriage? How much more would he need to do for you to be able to recover?

If he is not willing to meet your most basic standards, your marriage is doomed to fail anyway. It's better to find out sooner rather than later.

It's possible that if you tell him, "This is what I need if I am going to consider staying married to you," that he will wake up. If he does, and starts giving you what you need, more power to him. If not, take control of your destiny and tell him to leave.

Personally, I would recommend a Plan B in such a case, especially if you want to recover, and even if you don't.

A FWS who retains their wayward and entitled mentality is really just another WS.

I believe he’s trying to change his poor boundaries, I have seen some evidence; and I’m trying to give him the ego boosts that he used to get elsewhere.

As for the half-hearted attempt, I definitely feel that’s what he’s doing, but he doesn’t see that. He thinks that him working so much is “taking care of my family”, I’ve told him over and over that he’s not, that it’s putting a wedge between us.

I’m not willing to accept the crumbs, especially since I know what he’s capable of. In fact, I’ve written him a two page letter about his lack of emotional investment in our marriage, being a cause of our current unhappiness, and a cause of his ONS. Some of that is my fault, I’ve done horrible things to him throughout our relationship too. I think his lack of emotional investment is a way of protecting himself against the hurt of me leaving him (in the past, and potentially again in the future). He doesn’t understand that if he DOESN’T invest emotionally, it’s going to be a self-fulfilling prophesy.


If I type it out will you critique it for me?


I really believe if he truly understood that I’m getting close to breaking he’d get more serious about things. I try to tell him, he either doesn’t get it or doesn’t care. There’s that horrible communication again.

Sure, post the letter and we'll do our best to help.

Is counseling with the Harleys an option? Even once or twice would probably be a big help, and give you both a lot of clarity.

It is your responsibility to get the message through to him what's a stake, if at all possible. What he does with information is out of your control, as you know. It's good that you're encouraging what efforts he does make, but you can't carry the whole thing by yourself.

BR -

I was exactly where you are about three months ago. I felt like I was pulling my H through recovery by the nose. I felt like he just didn't "get" what boundaries were...he would refer to them as MY boundaries, not his. He couldn't see how the little things that he expected me to deal with were killing me.

I don't know if what happened for us is something that would happen for everyone, and I can only tell you the chain of events that led us into a real recovery, but I hope that it can help.

First, we had been trying to recover for about 6 months from a 3+ year A. H seemed remorseful, wanted to be there for me, made some changes, talked with me more. I was really pushing the MB principles and he was accepting them somewhat. We had a few battles with boundaries, but all in all I felt like he was sort of trying...definitely better than the last three years.

Then there was a big fight. It could have been about anything, but it was about sex. I told him that it was an EN for me and could we compromise on the amount (his need was nill). He told me that he was disgusted by me...that all of these things he was changing was making him resent me and find me unattractive. I spiraled into a horrible pity party. With MB, I should have done Plan B. And in a sense I did a modified Plan B soon thereafter.

Well, the people here picked me up, brushed me off, kicked me in the butt, and told me to STOP FOCUSING ON H! They told me to quit thinking about him altogether and look at what would make ME happy. Then the "divine intervention" happened. I was driving home one night and two songs came on the radio back to back..."Settlin" - about deciding that you're done settling for crumbs, and then "Stand" - about how when you are at the bottom, you need to just get back up and stand. I stopped and prayed at the front door of a church that evening. I prayed for "strength and clarity" - something I pray for often now.

I went home and worked on me. I made a conscious decision to do things with the sole motivation of making me happy. I was kind to my H, but I made sure that everything I did was what I wanted to do...and not something to try to rebuild our M, or make him feel good, or what I thought he'd like, or what I thought I should do...just the things that I wanted to do. Of course, I still took care of the boys, but when I had free time, I found things for me to do at home.

I also made a point of shutting down all conversations about our relationship. Whenever H would start talking about "us," I would gently move the conversation away from that. I didn't let any heavy talk happen at all.

Something amazing happened...my H started to seek ME out. He would come into the office to see what I was doing. He would look for me on the back patio and sit down with me. He would ask ME what I wanted to do. There was a shift.

And then another big thing happened. We met a MC. We had been to several counselors and H had been more than willing to work with them, but it never seemed to help. This MC was different. He met with each of us separately.

I'm not sure exactly what was different for H, but somehow, he felt as if this MC understood that H was a good guy who did a bad thing. They looked into Hs FOO and H started to see that there were connections to his past that were motivating his behaviors now. Not that they excused those behaviors, but that it might be something one could eventually understand. And maybe that was all he needed to hear.

From that point on, H was the one leading the recovery. He started to open up about the things that he needed in order to feel loved. He talked about his past and the hurts that he had been through. He couldn't wait to talk with me every evening. We made a timeline of our M and walked through all of the places where we neglected it. He wanted to understand what had happened. I think the MC also helped H to understand the depth of the hurt he had caused me. He told me that he wanted to see the things that he had done so that he could apologize for them.

We changed other things too. We talk every night for at least an hour...in the beginning it was deep relationship talk, now it's more about the day or our thoughts/feelings. We lock the bedroom door and sleep in the nude (sounds silly, but it creates a great intimacy). We talk throughout the day. We have changed the people we do things with to some extent...focusing more on the married couples who are happy. We have weekly date nights.

I know this is really long, but I want you to know that it is possible.

The lyrics to "Stand" really say it all..."When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend till you break cos it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off, then you stand."

MS

PS...I might report this on my own thread as I have deleted my original thread when OW started reading it.

DH,

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking and I think I’m asking you for the wrong things. I’m not saying I don’t need the attention, time, and affection because I do, I need it from you so very much, but there’s more to it. I need you to be completely emotionally invested in our relationship, in our marriage, and I just don’t think that’s the case; hence my fear, my anger, my neediness, my consistent requests for attention and affection. I do not feel like you are emotionally involved. If we divorce, you don’t have much to lose because it’s been a long time since you’ve given it (the emotional investment). I’ve seen and felt it when you have given it, so I know you’re capable: D-Day, when I moved out before we were married, at the beginning of our relationship, when we did long distance and you’d spend hours on the phone with me.

In fact, I truly believe you wouldn’t have committed infidelity had you been 100% emotionally invested in me, in us. You’re not allowing yourself to be invested in case we don’t make it; less to lose. What I don’t think you’ve thought about is if you DON’T invest yourself we’re NOT going to make it.

This issue is my “I’m done”. This issue is my boundary. I need and deserve 100% emotionally commitment/investment from you. I feel if/when I get that from you, the time, attention, affection will happen all on its own, and thusly I won’t have to be scared to death that you’re going to cheat on me again, because you’ll have put yourself in the position of having too much to lose. When the situation arises, you’ll be able to turn away, not only because it’s the right thing to do, but because you WANT to, because you’d have too much to lose.

I mentioned earlier that this is a boundary for me; this is my line in the sand. The choice is completely yours as to what you’d like to do. I just know this about myself, I cannot continue to give so much of my heart, soul, emotions, baggage, self to someone who won’t or can’t return the gift. It’s completely up to you as what you’d like to do.

ILY,
BR






I can see a DJ... This letter was more for me to read to him and then discuss, and not something for him to keep. It was more of a way for me to organize my thoughts re this subject.

Counseling w/the Harley's is def an option, just a matter of finding a time when he will be home to do it... just like local IC and MC.