{{{{{{{{{{{Tully}}}}}}}}}}}}

You deserve only the best. No matter what, now you will get it.

Tully,

This is a major step down the narrow path to recovery. I'm so glad you decided to go to Ireland. I truly believe that is the best option for you here. I have to tell you, you are a very strong woman! Your children are very lucky to have a strong mother that is willing to do the 'right thing'. I know it is unbelievably hard but you are doing everything you can to save your M and your family. Deep down you know that to be true. This does not guarantee a recovered M but it does give you the absolute best chance at it. You are doing everything right and I hope and pray it all works out well for you in the end. Actually, I know it will whatever the outcome because you are going to be in a better place. WH has to decide whether he wants to be in that better place with you or not. If not, then he's a fool and it's his loss! Keep protecting that little bit you have left in your LB and just try to do great things for yourself and your children while you are in Plan B. You've been through so much the past few months that believe me, being away from all of the drama is going to feel like a huge burden has been lifted! Lean on your family. Let them be there for you.

Also, Tully, please go and see a doctor and get checked out as soon as you get to Ireland! Liver problems can be quite a serious thing and those 4 children need a healthy mother to look after them.

Best of luck and please keep coming back! We are all here to keep helping and we are praying for the best outcome.

Mindshare

My best wishes go with you and your daughters today. I hope that you get away smoothly. You will feel so relieved when you arrive in Ireland and feel the loving support of your family. Would you please just do us a small favour and let as know, as soon as you can, that you have arrived safely and are settled in?

Also, do as everyone else is telling you: see a doctor immediately.

Thinking of you.

Thank you for all your support, you wonderful people. We got here to my dad's house eventually after a few difficulties; suburban train strike affecting the line to the airport and then computer problems at check-in delayed the flight by over an hour but we're here now. WH sent an email saying that he was too angry to write much but that he thought I was being very 'inconsiderate' to the children. I blocked his email address and asked GF to inform him of that. Actually the children are OK and I think it will be good for them to change environment. I think a Plan B with separation between WH and me would have been tougher on them whereas now they are delighted to see their aunts, uncles and cousins who are all planning lots of things to keep them occupied and to help me.
I'll go now as I'm exhausted after the tension of the long day. Thanks again.

I am praying for you and the girls. And, for a quick recovery so your WH gets out of the fog. My best to you all.

Yay! You've arrived safe and sound and are in the midst of those who love you. I'm very glad you took a moment to let us know.

Good job on blocking his email addy. Don't give it another thought.

When's your doctor appointment?

Yay! Glad to hear you all 5 made it in one piece! And no mention of duct tape in the same sentence with the kids, so it must have been a not-too-bad trip.

Of course he's angry - he's not in control any more. But enough about him, let's talk about you.

When did you say that dr.'s appointment was?

I'm so relieved you got there okay, tully! Relax and be loved now.

Are you near to the sister that wrote this?

Sisters, eh? When you're little they cut the hair off your dolls, and when you grow up and and need them they rush to your rescue. Say hi to her from me!

Hello all, I came back on here because I had a wobble in my confidence. I spoke to MIL who is defending WH fully. She said that she will never forgive me for not even letting WH say goodbye to his children. I said 'but that's divorce talk and we're not there yet' She says that he says it's over between him and OW and he keeps saying that to me too. And I keep telling them that that's not the issue, the issue is zero contact because even if it is 'over' between them it won't stay that way and it is eating me up inside. She then went on to say that she had already noticed that I spent too much time on my computer (writing and blogging on my literary blog) and that when he comes home tired after a days work that he shouldn't have to set the table or bath the girls when I have nothing else to do all day. I know she's from another generation and another mind-set but it's hard to take anyway. She said that WH had sent an email this morning and that I should read it - that he had some 'interesting' things to tell me. As you can imagine, she didn't appreciate me blocking his address. I tried to finish up the conversation as positively as possible but I feel less sure of the future now than I did before the call.

It is good to be here though, to have the support and love of my family. They are great with the girls and lovely to me. On the good news front, I went to the local primary school and spoke to the principal and he was so lovely. The girls will start school on Monday and everything was made as easy as possible for us.

Sugar, that sister lives in England. She's married to an Englishman who thinks that I need to watch a few episodes of Eastenders (an English soap, for US citizens) to show me the appropriate way to react in this situation. But she's coming home soon to see us. She's is a great sister, but no better than the others (I am very lucky to have four of them)

Now I've got to go and sort out school bags, uniforms and books for Monday.

No, tully; that was not the sister that lives in England. You told me her name. This is another one.

There are lots of things to discuss from your post. I'm sure everyone will be here later to help you. Have confidence that your actions are the only ones that stand a chance of protecting you in the short term and establishing a proper marriage should all contact end. Your MIL should not be telling you that you are wrong; she should be telling her son that. Perhaps you should not talk to her if she maintains this position.

How's that doctor's appointment looking?

Back later.

First time on here, but I've been keeping up with your story.

When you were in first contact with MIL I was going to warn you that when push comes to shove she will eventually side with her son. Take what she gives out with the knowledge that most mothers will back their sons and daughters...that's what they are there for. She is probably upset you have taken the children from her too. You can Plan B her also, ask her to go through your mediator also...

When this happens sides will be drawn.

You sound like you are doing well. And I understand your fears. There is always the possibility that Plan B could lead to D, that's why Dr. Harley recommends a good Plan A before making the decision to move out/separate. But, if the options are to stay in the marriage the way it stands now, or Plan B...I'd pick Plan B again and again.

You sound very strong and you will get stronger as time goes on. Yes, it is a shock for him to realize what his actions have led him to...at least we're hoping he'll get to that realization...right now he is blaming you. And your mediator is deflecting that from you right now...Yay! for them!

But soon he will begin living with himself and all the silence. The OW, when she learns you have moved out, will begin the planning...and pushing and pursuing. Yes, they will probably get back together...but how long will he stay with her while she is talking of D and the wedding and where they will live and what plans they will make together... Yeah, he'll be miserable...and what is the way to make him happy again? To be with you.

So we'll see how fast a learner he is...

Tully,

So glad you all made it safe and sound! I know this is hard but hang in there. Whenever you 'wobble' come here for support!! We are here for you and want you to succeed where some of us didn't!!!

I'm starting to think that MIL might need to be added to the Plan B. I'll be interested to hear what other vets with more experience then me have to say about this. Of course she is going to defend her son at this point especially since you have made it much more difficult for him to see the children. She's speaking from fear. She's saying these things to you because she has no comprehension of MB concepts and Plan B. She's afraid that this will end your family forever. While there is always that possibility, if you had stayed in the house with WH you certainly would have eventually ended up in Plan D based on his behavior and the massive withdrawals from your LB. IF you choose to continue to speak to MIL just respond to everything she says by reminding her that WH (her son) is the one that did this to his family. However, I'm not so sure you should continue to speak to her.

Stay strong and stay dark in your Plan B. You can do this!!!

When is that doctor's appointment? We are all worried about YOUR health!!!

Mindshare

Hi tully,

Glad to hear that you all made it to Ireland and the children are in fact happy to visit with the family. As for MIL...don't let her get to you. She is scared and doesn't want to believe that her son is a liar or worse. A part of her may even have a feeling of guilt that she didn't raise her son right because before this I doubt she ever though her DS would be an cheater.

Try and keep the communication open if possible and stay positive with her but if she makes your Plan B more difficult for you than you may have to ignore her as well. Re-enforce to her that your WH is the one who is the deciding factor to recovering the M and that you and your children deserve a happy home. Maybe let her know that WH already told you if he was in contact with OW he'd lie to you about it or that OBVIOUSLY things aren't as WH says or else you wouldn't have felt the need to remove yourself and your children from the WH's abuse...perhaps plant some seeds in her head. It's not like this is a vacation for you.

You may want to talk to your doctor about anti-Ds if you feel you need them. Take some vitamins, eat well, and rest. Take care tully.

PB or no PB, a family member or anyone else unhealthy in your life, can and should be given limited access, or cut out altogether until they are healthier.

You will probably need to limit her access to you. I would not recommend limiting her access to the girls yet. Don't tell her this, but only let her speak to them with you or one of your awesome family members listening in.

At the first moment she crosses the line or tries to manipulate them, the adult needs to step in, give a warning, and allow the conversation to continue. If she does it again, the adult needs to immediately bring the conversation to an end.

Then, I would recommend sending her a letter of your expectations of her behavior. When you feel like it, you can try again. If she still doesn't respect your boundaries, I would recommend cutting her off from all of you for the duration of PB.

After PB, and at any point in the future that you want to try and re-establish a connection, just go through the above process. She will let you know very quickly if she is strong enough to handle the contact.

My MIL has been almost enirely cut off from the kids for a couple of years. I could write an awful lot about her manipulations while she was still allowed contact with them. When we lived out there for the summer we did bump into her a couple of times, and those did not go well. So I know she's not strong enough yet... I might let them call her on her birthday, which is close to Christmas. Closely supervised, of course. She'll let me know if it was a good idea or not.

Let go of any guilt over whether she has the right to access them or not. You have the responsibility to protect your children from unhealthy people. If she puts herself in that category, it's your duty to protect them from her. It's all part of being an awesome Mom!

Really, tully, how dare your MIL tell you that SHE will never forgive YOU for not letting your H say goodbye to his girls? Has she ever told her son that she will never forgive him for carrying out his immoral behaviour and potentially ruining his kids' lives? Does she seriously believe that the harm that your H will suffer at losing his family will have been caused by you? As far as you can tell, has she ever told her son that he has behaved abominably and that he needs to put things right before he loses you all forever?

May I suggest that you need to develop confidence and dignity about being the only person directly affected by this mess standing up for what's right? When anybody, related to you or not, speaks to you like this in future you should calmly end the conversation. When your MIL phones you should ask her if she wants to speak to the girls. When she says "yes, but first I want to say to you..." tell her that you don't want to talk about your marriage or H and offer again to let her speak to the girls. If she keeps this up, take the stronger measures advised by Neak.

Refuse to defend yourself about being moral and protecting your children.

You should also not speak to her about H because the whole point of Plan B is to protect you from further details of his waywardness. There is no point your cutting off all direct contact with him and then allowing indirect contact via conversation with people who are in touch with him. You do realise that he wanted her to tell you about the email and will continue to let you know, via her calls, how hurt he is at your "cruelty"? He is using her to manipulate you.

You should prepare yourself and your father for his appearance this weekend, or soon, on the doorstep, and for his telephone calls. You need to avoid the landline if you have any suspicion that he is on the end of the line. You should expect an email from an unblocked address. Perhaps you should delete it without reading it, rather than have it bounce back to him or have your intermediary tell him that he is blocked. If you simply don't reply he might not be driven to finding out ways of surprising you by using different email addresses. Other supporters here will perhaps be able to advise you better about email.

You should anticipate that he will not respect your actions and will show his contempt for your Plan B stance by "contacting his kids" whenever he pleases. Don't be caught out - and do not allow yourself to be goaded into upsetting discussions with his supporters.

Let him go, relax and enjoy the peace. Have you booked that appointment yet?

Have you identified which sister wrote to me yet?!

Well, it's been an upsetting and difficult day, starting with that phone call with my MIL (who to my knowledge, Sugar, has not told her son that he has behaved abominably but has asked a couple of times if he has really broken it off with OW.)

WH rang twice this evening (I was in my brothers for dinner) asking for me to call back but I didn't. Then I spoke to our mediator who, following a conversation with WH this evening, called into question my decision to go to Ireland. WH is very angry (and getting angrier with time apparantly) and is offering to move out of the house and respect my desire for no contact if we move back to France.

GF (the mediator) thought this was a good idea because she thought that cutting him off from his chidren was hard on him and that it might be better if his choice was made between OW and me rather than involving the children. I ended up convincing her that I was acting for the best but it took it out of me. I dismissed his objection by saying that it's only 1 day since we left so his separation is hardly traumatic for the moment. I asked her to tell him that we are all doing fine, the girls are adjusting well, that they will call him tomorrow evening, that he is welcome to come and see them when he wants but that we will not be leaving yet and that he needs more time.

On top of all that i've had to explain to some people about my situation, especially my dad and it's a bit hard too to deal with their reactions.

For the rest of the weekend I'll try to avoid talking to people about stuff and get a bit of peace. I have an appointment with a doctor on Monday as I had so much to do with organising stuff for school for the girls.

Sugar, that sister must be one living in the South of Ireland, the one who got married recently. She is coming to see us on Sunday as she only got back from her honeymoon today.

Thank you all for your advice on this situation. I hope my relationship with my MIL doesn't suffer too much from this situation. I told her that even in the worst case of divorce which I don't think will happen then I will do my best to ensure that she and her granddaughters maintain their relationship. And also that I will no longer discuss this subject with her, not because I am angry but because i can see this is upsetting her and I don't want that. I said she could ring and speak to the girls any time. But her comments about me hurt. She thinks i should do things her way, for example I never iron anything and she is shocked by this but I hate ironing and don't see why I should.

I'll go now as I'm exhausted. I hope tomorrow is a better day, although I haven't had too many good days for over two months.

{{{{{Tully}}}}}}

Sorry about your day. I think you'll get to the peaceful part soon, especially if your family is/gets on board.

Seriously, you may need to find another mediator if she doesn't change her tune. The mediator's job is to protect you, not to try and convince you to do things WH's way. Send you back into the lion's den with no one at your back.

It's not that you need a rubber stamp, but you and your mediator need to be on the same page for the important items.

Why not take a bubble bath tonight? You've earned it.

I'm not even saying you should never take him up on his offer to go back to France, but if you go, you need to be in tip-top 100% good condition, and be strong enough to face anything he can throw at you.

Maybe you'll decide to do it, and maybe you won't. For now, it is a TOTALLY bad idea, and should be put back on the shelf for another day.

Good grief your MIL is lost in lalaland too. Her DS is abusing you and destroying your family and she's hung up on petty stuff like ironing his clothes and setting the table?? :RollieEyes: As this situation unfolds, you will see who you can count on during times of crisis tully...who has the character to be the guardian of your children should you ever need one, who will have the strength to stand up for what is moral and right and not just give cheap lip service.

You will have to appoint another mediator if this one continues to be weak after just one day. Cutting WH off from his children has been hard on him...GMAB! Like you said it's been one day and you've had to endure this he// for over two months. I truly don't understand people sometimes. His job to pass along information not weaken your resolve and convince you into some pity party for WH.

Your WH has taken you for being a weak woman and never though you had it in you to leave especially given that you are a SAHM with four young children. He simply mad that he's not calling the shots here and you "dared" to not take him at his word...like it holds much weight these days. Your children need protection from their own father...how dare he.

When you see the doctor tully, have you considered taking the STD tests? I won't lie to you, it's not a cheerful day but it did bring me some peace of mind knowing that I wasn't infected with some disease. Given that you aren't going to your regular doctor you don't have to worry about your regular physician back home knowing about your A if that aspect made you uncomfortable. When the doctor informed me how a sample was taken from men, I insisted my FWH be tested as well. OUCH! I would have insisted anyway but knowing it was going to hurt him was a tiny bit of just compensation and motivation. LOL

How's your dad? Have the children asked about WH?

Hang in there!!!