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Joined: Aug 2000
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I am sorry my friend but this is really too much. In the past you have caught her being drunk and making out with other men. Now she comes home from a bar drunk with another man in YOUR HOME, kisses you good night, and you come downstairs seeing her with this man making out with him in your home?....This is beyond disrespect and total humiliation of you.

Have you asked your wife how she would feel if the roles were reversed? What possible excuse could she give you? I agree with a previous poster for your wife to bring a man to your home while you are upstairs and continue to drink and make out with him would have to show such complete hostility and distain toward you and your marriage that it is simply incomprehensible.

Honestly, I think most men would be contacting an attorney to understand your various legal options. It is clear my friend that she has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? This self destructive behavior of your wife will destroy you also. Think of the possibilities that could have happened. She met a strange man and brings him home while you are upstairs to drink and ultimately attempt to have sex. You came down and stopped it in time but what if this man had a knife or gun? What if they had indeed had sex and you had been put at risk for STD's? I think you would have to be out of your mind to put up with such behavior. I am sorry but one would have to be a masochist to tolerate such behavior. Again I think most men would be seeking an attorney at this point. I wish you luck because you will need it if you stay with her. Surely you deserve better than this!

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Would you both be able to set a limit to your alcohol consumption at these social events...like no more than 2 drinks for your wife. Would she be able to make such a commitment.

I still think that you shouldn't be attending social events without each other from here on out. The world won't come to an end if you stick to such a commitment.

Your marriage will continue to head towards it demise should you not set firm boundaries on what is acceptable and what is not.

Bryan's question was a good one: How would your wife react if you did the same thing and brought a woman home...wow, I can't believe that she would be making any excuses for you.

Mel may very well be correct that your wife may be an alcoholic or both of you may be. If so, then that is the first thing that has to be addresses anyway.


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Trix #2152716 11/03/08 03:51 PM
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I wanted to respond to some of the suggestions and comments posted here. Thanks very much for taking the time.

'How she feels' - she feels horrible. She is gutted. She is displaying true remorse and regret. As she should be.

With regard to disrespect and humiliation, I hear those comments loud and clear. I had originally asked about whether the fact that this only happened when drinking is involved was material, and what it might mean. The obvious fact is that it does mean she has a problem with drinking, and that must be solved first.

In terms of setting limits on alcohol etc..., I am certainly going to set and enforce those, probably including exploring our relationship with alcohol with an eye to alcoholism. Not a problem for me, and really a requirement. I had always intended to impose limits as part of my response, but I had naively overlooked that possibility that alcoholism might be a factor. Pretty stupid / naive! I have not had any other experience with drinking issues, so maybe that explins my foolishness. Maybe I did not want to deal with it. It needs to be dealt with now. The one crystal clear alcoholic test that she seems to pass is "hurting others' when drinking. I do not know what this means for sure, except she needs help in this department, and I will not be afraid to have myself checked out as well.

Perhaps most concerning for me are the comments about me 'making excuses' for her. I recognize my role as an enabler. I am angry and taking difficult action. I am not afraid of critical comments, and I will admit to making mistakes. I would guess that it is common to screw up when dealing with these types of issues. I also feel that given the situation, the most productive way through is to work with her to settle these things. This will mean limits and professional help. It may mean sepration and the end of the relationship. And /or more!

I suppose I am struggling with the assertions of weakness. This does not mean I do not think I am not open to these criticisms, just that I am confused by them. I am committed to working through this situation to a healthy place. I am fully prepared for that to mean the end of the relationship, or a lot of hard work and radical change to restore it. It seems that part of the program is to forgive, and while I am not there yet, I am prepared to work on that should it get to that point. I understand forgiveness is only part of the equation, and without the other parts it won't work. Still, I feel there is an inconsistency in terms of taking responsibility for my part of the equation, and blaming her for everything. Obviously my focus is on making sure I do the right things going forward, to resolve it once and for all.

Once again, I truly appreciate all and any feedback and support.

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Prosen, you are not a stupid man and I sincerely apologize if I ever gave that impression. It is clear you have not been exposed to alcoholic recovery, so it is not surprising that you would not recognize it. How could you? You have no experience!

As a culture we have been trained to believe that alcoholics are bums who live under the bridges and drink out of a paper bag. I sure thought that! Never did I realize that most alcoholics are very functional and look and operate just like you and me. Most of us are naive about it until we have been exposed first hand. So please do not be critical of yourself for not seeing it.

I was a housewife who very rarely went to a bar, so I certainly never believed I could fit that stereotype.. I was an upstanding citizen! Imagine my surprise when I learned otherwise.

I strongly suspect that your wife has a serious drinking problem based on what you told us. If that is the case, I would expect you, as a recipient of her crazy behavior, to have grown quite accustomed to living in the NUT HOUSE. When one lives in the nut house, they habitually redefine NORMAL in order to survive. That means they learn to live with things that would be intolerable to most.

It is this altered reality that is the foundation of all dysfunctional homes. I suspect this has happened to you, my friend. The reason I think this is becuase you came here and told us an amazing story of abuse from your wife as if it were a minor problem.

Your seeming mild acceptance and lack of action for her flagrant abuse is shocking to outsiders, Prosen. They do not live in the fun house and cannot fathom what would cause a man to endure such abuse. It is important for you to understand how horrifying this looks to normal people from the outside looking in. It is shocking. As someone who once lived in the fun house [but was mostly enebriated throughout] it is shocking to ME.

That reaction might be unsettling to you, but I hope you can find therapeutic value in it, and try to see your life through the eyes of objective outsiders who have no emotional investment in altering reality.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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MelodyLane - I really appreciate your comments and thoughts. It is so valuable to have such kindness from a stranger.

I am not sure how I ever characterized this situation as a minor problem. I also struggle with accusations of mild acceptance and lack of action. It may have to do with my writing style, or the lack of detail in regards to events of the past.

I assure you, I have not been passive in dealing with this in the past, or now. I recognize I have TOTALLY failed to address it properly yet. Sadly, through practice (and through outside help) I may be getting better at it.

Thanks again for challenging me, and please continue to do so.

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Over the last few years, my wife has had issues with fidelity. It seems slightly different from a lot of other scenarios described here, as it only happens when she is really drunk, and, she does not seem very capable of making any efforts to hide it.

The most recent event involved her bringing a guy home from the bar to our house, coming and saying good night to me (I was asleep in bed), and then listening to music and having some drinks. And then I came downstairs to discover a bad scene.

ok, the most logical solution is for her to stop drinking, right? Has she stopped drinking?

Since drinking has almost destroyed your marriage, and caused you enormous harm, wouldn't the logical solution be to STOP?

If bananas make your wife go insane and start barking at the moon, wouldn't it be logical to do everything to avoid bananas at all cost?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
If bananas make your wife go insane and start barking at the moon, wouldn't it be logical to do everything to avoid bananas at all cost?

rotflmao

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well, there is clearly a drinking component to this problem. I am pretty confident that it is not the root cause of the problem though - I would suggest it has more to do with unmet emotional needs etc...

would you agree?

if there were issues every time she / we drank, I may have put it together more quickly. perhaps I have my own issues with drinking... need third party advice on that.

I suppose in the past, we have tried to focus on understanding the situation and it's real causes, which I reckon is the right thing to do. however, it won't have a chance to be successful until we have addressed the drinking.

as much as it may seem like I am trying to make excuses, I am not. I was naive and inexperienced in dealing with this stuff, and made a mistake.

what is really important is the way forward. as you have suggested earlier, we need to address the drinking first, then the rest of the issues.

wish me luck.

thanks for your continued guidance and comments. very much appreciated!

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Originally Posted by PRosen
well, there is clearly a drinking component to this problem. I am pretty confident that it is not the root cause of the problem though - I would suggest it has more to do with unmet emotional needs etc...

would you agree?

Not really. The root cause is your wife's drinking. She commits adultery because of her drinking, not because of unmet needs. It is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic so you can't really know what is lacking in your marriage until her drinking is arrested.

From one of Dr Harleys numerous articles on an alcoholic spouse:


Quote
One of the first things I do when couples see me for counseling is to evaluate them for drug and alcohol addiction. If I feel that either is addicted at the time, I refer the addicted spouse to a treatment program. The Love Buster, drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them from resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated before marital therapy has any hope of being successful.

My job as a marriage counselor begins after successful treatment and sobriety. If the addicted spouse refuses treatment, then I direct the unaddicted spouse to Alanon or some other support group for spouses of alcoholics. Sometimes, I encourage an intervention.

That's what I learned to do after discovering that an alcoholic is so much in love with alcohol, that while in the state of addiction, there is no way for them to consider their spouse's feelings whenever they make decisions, a necessary condition for a great marriage. Alcohol always comes first, even when it is at the spouse's expense.

But even after sobriety is achieved, it's an uphill battle for the couple. The spouses of alcoholics are usually so relieved when treatment is successful that they often think their marital troubles are over. It's true, addiction makes it impossible to resolve marital conflicts. Alcoholic Spouse



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Well, that's interesting! smile

It seems like either my wife is an alcoholic whose alcohol issues must be treated before we enter any discussion/process OR we have not uncommon (but very significant) relationship issues that are complicated by circumstance and alcohol.

And I am clearly neither experienced nor possibly stable enough to tell the difference.

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You may have already answered this question; sorry if I missed it. Have you called the Harleys?

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No I have not. I am evaluating my external support options. Not an easy thing to do. I am certainly committed to getting help - just not sure which way. Any advice?

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