I do agree that she invested heavily in the OM and that's why she feel for him so badly. However I guess the question is why didn't she invest in our M? The question is why was it so much easier for her to invest in someone else? I don't doubt that if we apply the MB principles and invest more time in each other that we could have a better marriage. I guess part of my fear will alway be wondering why she freely and willing choose to be with the OM and invest in him but with me I almost have to force or obligate her to invest in me. Doesn't give me the greatest feeling in the world.

Thanks. This is what I ultimately hope is true. What you write is definitely true - we both ignored each other for awhile - kids, house, work, etc. I just hope I can past the hurt and betrayal to let her focus on me and me on her.

I find it interesting that you ask this question to the poster that still "feels" 2nd best and has admitted he hasn't "dealt with it". It almost like you don't believe that I and the other posters above HAD those feelings and dealt with them as indicated. We did.

Feeling 2nd best AND continuing for years to "feel" 2nd best is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You will continue to act and respond to your spouse as weak, insecure and depressed. As you mope around in your "feelings" you won't appear strong, confident and secure which in turn results in your spouse NOT be overwhelmingly attracted and "in love" with you. She'll likely stay with you out of obligation and guilt...but that's not fun for either of you.

Negative "feelings" can be like a ball and chain around your ankle. You can choose to either drag the ball behind you OR pick it up and deal with it. It's much easier to walk, then someday run, carrying such ball than it's ever going to be letting it hold you back dragging it.

Pick up the ball. Accept it as YOUR temporary burden that YOU will overcome, IN TIME

I'm not denying your feelings...but feelings aren't always reality nor are they permanent, have faith and hope that you can carry this burden and, one day, shed it.

Mr. Wondering

One last important concept...

HOW to NOT feel something.

1. Feelings follow actions

2. Undertake actions demonstrating and being confident and self assured that your wife loves you

3. Your feelings will eventually catch up with such actions


Whatever you have to do, whether it's pep talks or reading books about boundaries and self-confidence...you do. This could include undertaking some new personal habits that make you "feel" better about yourself. Maybe commit to hitting the gym several times a week, maybe get a punching bag in the basement and start working out again, get your nails done or go tanning, get some new clothes that make you "feel" good about yourself, etc.

Set out purposefully to ACT as confidentally and as self-assured as you can each day

AND

Eventually

the world will respond to you as such (including your spouse)

AND

IN TIME

Amazingly

You will then "FEEL" confident and self-assured.

Mr. Wondering

Agree with MrW; feelings are not truth. You are only 2nd best if you choose to be. I have never felt "2nd best" because I have never chosen to BE second best.

Letting others define you is not healthy or mature. If you truly ARE second best, in reality, then my suggestion would be to change whatever it is that makes you that way. But in your case, it would ridiculous to assert you are "second best" to a scumbag. That is just silly unless you are a worse character than him, which I doubt.

Agree completely! BTW, I hate to threadjack, but why are you going by "Goober" ?? It doesn't seem to suit you.

I'd guess that you are in the minority.

I shouldn't have used the words "wide variety".

I should've just said "many".

You make a good point. I guess I asked that poster because I'm thinking along the lines of misery loves company. Definitely not the right attitude to have and I appreciate you pointing this out. For some reason I'm thinking other BS haven't felt this way when in reality all BS I'm sure feel this way. Maybe some more then others but in essence all WS have chosen the OP over their S. I guess in my case I think maybe I'm feeling a little more like I was 2nd best because the OM was not some lowlife dirtbag who has no job and lives at home with parents in the basement kind of guy. I think it would be much easier to dismiss the OM in that case (although you would probably question your WW judgement more - really can go back and forth with these games). Yes, I know he had an A with a married person and that does make him no good but I think for all BS they can't help but to compare themselves to the OP.

And yes they had sex during the A but I think what is even harder to get over is the deep connection they had for each other. My WW has even said she doesn't understand why they were so deeply connected, just that they were. I have always wanted that connection with my WW and I'm not sure if we ever had. And that's what's really scary to admit.

Overall your post is very true though. Kind of like the line you have to get busy living or get busy dying (Shawshank Redemption I believe?). I have to come to grips with my feelings and move on in my relationship with my WW or go the D route and start over with someone else. Its not fair to either one of us stay out of obligation or guilt.

You might try reading the book No More Mr. Nice Guy . I'm not very nice but I still got something out of reading it.

6years,

I've read through most of the gibberish on this thread ... and your quote above speaks directly to my ears.

I am a HUGE advocate of BH's doing whatever is necessary to maintain their sense of self-worth and self-respect, which can be severely damaged by following the MB plans, as advocated on these forums. Now, I'm not suggesting that the plans themselves are necessarily wrong, but the way they are often interpreted and relayed to newbies here often encourage inherent weaknesses in BH's, who are now facing the very real change in circumstances of their WW's choosing someone else, at least for the moment.

I know I dealt with many of these insecurities early on in the discovery process, but your explanation of viewing these issues through the distorted lens of a cheating spouse shows that while OBVIOUSLY she may prefer someone else, HER judgment is the one in question, rather than the BH's.

Well Done!!!

Oh, so they had a real deep connection, huh?

So, they had a great time even when performing mundane tasks like folding laundry, or cleaning a bathroom, huh?

They were, no doubt, all lovey-dovey as they went up and down every aisle of the local supermarket, loading up the cart as they checked items off the list.

I'm sure their genitals were about to burst out of their constraints as they balanced the check book and paid the bills.





Huh? They didn't do that stuff?

THEN THEY WEREN'T REALLY CONNECTED!!!!!


Of course OM is going to come across as Mr. Perfect when he only has to be nice and provide an erection. How tough is that?

If I only had to see my wife long enough to give her a compliment, do a little flirting, and get my noddle wet, we'd have a "perfect" relationhsip, too.

Except that it wouldn't be a real relationship. She'd be a shallow skank, and I be a "playa" who thinks with his ____.

That "deep connection" crap is for kids and idiots.

Thanks for the advice. This is something I definitely have to work on for myself and is something I have battled during my life. Irrespective of my wife and what has happened. And in realtity I think you are right - I'm not 2nd best overall to this guy, I'm thinking more from my WW's point of view that I am 2nd best to him for the obvious reason she choose to be with him during the A rather then me.

I just bought the book the other day and will give it a read soon. And I think your advice even though you are D had been very beneficial. Not every M can be saved but we still have to go as individuals living our lives the best we can. And its not healthy for me to let my WW define how I feel about myself.

Exactly. Trust me, reading your posts is like reading my own mind.


Actually, its worse than that. My OM is really a piece of crap -- not as successful, never will be, totally bankrupt morally. But I almost wish he was better than me ... because now, I'm stuck with feeling that she chose OM over ME. If he's a piece of crap (rest assured, he IS), what does that make me?

Ultimately its a losing battle to do these types of comparisons. You always lose, OM always wins. Haven't OM taken enough of your life?


Yes, true. But you can choose to dwell on it or you can choose to not dwell on it. Its ultimately your choice how to look at it. Choose to THINK the RIGHT way.


Yup. But remember, part of their "connection" is the newness and excitement of an infatuation relationship. They're heavily motivated to tell each other everything about themselves. That's harder to do with you because you already know everything about her, so you have to "manufacture" things to talk about.

The other part of their "connection" is the secrecy. They have a HUGE SECRET that only THEY know about, and its a forbidden, juicy secret at that. Either of them could destroy the other by revealing it, but they do not, which they take to be proof of their "trustworthiness." That feeds whole "soulmate" fantasy.


Nothing about this is fair, or ever will be "fair." She betrayed you. That is inherently unfair, and you have to come to terms with that. There is not much she can ever do to "make up" for that.

You will probably NOT feel much love towards her right now, so you MAY have to stay out of obligation at first. But by "watering the lawn", eventually you will be invested in the relationship and love her again in a way you didn't think was possible.

Thanks for the jolt of reality. Pretty funny. My WW keeps on pointing out most of what you described - it wasn't real life, there were no kids, bills, etc. Just two people making themselves feel good at everyone else's expense. She actually said in a sense they were using each other.

I'm the one for some reason who is trying to make it more "real". I'm not sure why. Maybe its too prove who she really was closer to. Sometimes I think I just try to imagine the absolute worst scenarios in my head to make me realize what she did. Strange why I would want to inflict even more pain on myself but this seems to be my world now.

I've been there.

It may be because it's almost easier to think she had real feelings for OM.

Without those feelings, she and OM were "f-buddies" and your wife was behaving like a s_ut. It also means it is more likely to happen again...if, unlike most women, she doesn't need an emotional connection to hop into bed with someone.

Try to not take that as an insult...my W was the same way.

Question: How can your wife freely admit they were using each other, and claim to have had a deep connection? Those two things are mutually exclusive, in my opinion.

I think this one of the most amazing benefits of these boards. Literally reading from other people exactly what you are thinking or feeling sometimes. After the A I felt pretty alone but reading stuff on here has definitely helped. Now if I could only get my WW to go along with some of it....



I think this is the best piece of advice. Since as a couple we were friends with the OM and OMW for years I really feel like a lost the past couple years of my life. I need to put the OM behind me and move on.



The 1st part is defintley true. We really had no secrets from each (except for the A obviously) during our M and talked about everything. I just need to work on talking about things that interest both of us. Our interests definitely have drifted over the years.
For the 2nd part of what you wrote - it's amazing but my WW almost said the same exact thing. She said the forbidden nature of their A kind of fueled it. They couldn't tell anyone about it so they HAD to turn to each other which in turn made them more connected.



I would definitely say I stayed out of obligation at 1st. My inclination was to run out of the door and not look back and I even threatened to leave in the 1st couple of days numerous times. But I think my children and my wife, despite what she did, deserve us to at least try to recover. I grew up as a divorced child and so did my wife (her mom actually has an A - history repeating itself?). It wasn't the end of the world but if I can try to avoid it I will.

I don't think so. That may make me sound crazy but I would almost prefer they didn't have a deep connection. Yes, it would make her a s_ut I guess in the strict definition of it but at least I would know her heart was mine and not given to someone else. I think as a guy I'm probably definitely in the minority on these boards but I find it easier to get over the physical aspects of the A then the emotional deep connection of the A. The deep connection that they had talking for hours everyday is much more intimate to me then the 5 minutes of screwing they had every few weeks.


Kind of ironic - this is how she almost tried to play it off to me. That they were just kind of like friends with benefits. She didn't want to admit that they loved each other and had a deep connection. Not until I confronted her with evidence (voice recordings I made during the A about a week after D-Day did she admit to the real extent to it. This was a very tough to take. Also bothered me because she didn't full disclose everything at 1st. I had to find out on my own.


No insult taken. All I am looking for is honesty. I think my WW does need the emotional connection. She was talking to him everyday for almost 6 months or longer before it went physical. I think she tried to play it off as a f-buddy kind of thing to try to protect my feelings in some strange way. She knew I would be crushed to find out not only did she betray me by having sex with OM but that she also feel in love with him and therby put him #1 - which it my most pressing issue right now.




I don't know. You got me on this one. This is just what she told me. I think she meant that since the OM was unhappy in his M and she was unhappy in ours - they were using each other to make each other happy. She claims that she was not so much in love with that particular OM but just in love with the A and the attention and feeling she got from it. Does that make sense at all?

I'm not sure if an A is unforgivable. I suppose it's not seeing as I'm trying to make peace with my H's A and forgive him and even myself in some ways. Never in a million years did I think my recovery would be as successful as it has been given my state of mind on dday and the weeks that followed. Finding this MB was a blessing. Having fantastic family and friends supporting me was a God send as well. I was also lucky to have a remorseful H too who want to recover. We still have some bobbles here and there but nothing will ever compare to our darkest days those first few months. Remembering that dark time makes it easier to deal with any obstacles. Your dday is very recent but like everyone else says, time does take some of the sting away. You won't forget but you will learn to live and be happy again.

Not really. I'd say one statement or the other is true, but not both.

Since you already know they had feelings for each other, I'd say you can toss the "we were using each other" statement out the window.

It reads like she simply swapped out lies without thinking things through.