Hi everyone,

Right now I am at the beginning of plan A and trying to show my WW how great our marriage can be. I have tried to suggest we at least try marriage therapy or counseling to see if it would help, but she is such a private person and had refused so far. Even if I do get her to go, she will probably not talk a think that the whole thing is a joke. She has the type of personality that she thinks she can do anything she sets her mind to and does need a doctor or anyone else to give her advice on how to live her life.

My question is, should I keep pushing the therapy issue, or is it better for her to work thing out herself? If I do keep pushing for therapy, any suggestion on a way to convince her to go? I have suggested that we try just the initial meeting and then she can decide after that, but she refused. She says she would feel uncomfortable talking about the A in front of a stranger. So, i suggested finding a counselor that does meeting over the phone, but she refused that too. She is still pretty angry at me since the exposure 4 days ago, so maybe she will come around, but i doubt it. The next thing I plan in trying it to at least read through Surviving an Affair (SAA) and His Needs, Her Needs (HNHN) with me and together agreeing to a plan of recovery. I will also suggest that we both fill out the Emotional Needs surveys.

Anything else I should be doing at this point?

A8,

Have you spoken with your parents about this whole situation yet?

haven't spoken to mine, but I have with her mother and sister. They are think counseling could be valuable, and I am trying to get them to tell WW what they think, but her sister is so mad at her she doesn't even want to speak to her.

I think you are putting the cart before the horse, alarrson. Recovery is impossible until she ends contact with her lover. So counseling is useless at this point. She has to first end contact and once she withdraws from the OM, she may be ready to take recovery steps.

But first things first. GEt her away from the OM so you CAN have a chance at recovery. THEN talk about recovery.

Tell her that if she wants the M to work, she needs to get her [censored] into counseling PRONTO, and fully participate while she's there.

Stop letting her use her "Little Ms. Independent" persona as an excuse to get out of facing what she's done.

Getting her leave her residency via HR is not an option. When she found out I told the OMW, her biggest fear was the OMW telling the school and either losing her job, or facing everyone at work once they know what had been going on. She was and still is furious with me about this possibility. Going to HR would bring an end to us for sure. I know it is not the ideal way to break this off, but I am going to have to try it for a little while at least. I hear what everyone is saying about NC, but her career is so important to her that she could never forgive me for destroying it. And i know that it was her that destroyed it, not me, but she sees it that she created a little problem, and when i exposed, I created the larger mess.

I am hoping to get her to some sort of counseling in the hope that someone will be able to convince her that she really needs to leave the university for this to work. I understand that full recovery is still way down the road.

the "little ms independent" persona is not an act that she is putting on because of the A, she had been like that her whole life.

When I try to discuss the A with her, she says that talking about it drives her further away. It may be just a ploy to avoid the situation, but that last thing i want to do in plan A is to drive her away. Any suggestions for dealing with someone like this? I have been a conflict avoider my whole life. Figuring out how to confront such a stubborn person and convince them to so something they don't want to is proving very challenging for me.

alarrson, I am seeing a disturbing trend here and it is the relegation of your responsibilities to others. You wanted her parents to get her to leave her job and now you imagine that some therapist will do it for you. That is your job, not the job of others. You are her HUSBAND.

What will more likely happen at your average "therapist" office is they will endorse her affair and tell you to leave her alone. It happens all the time because MC know nothing about adultery and even less about how to save a marriage. They are useless. They are NOT pro marriage and are little more than divorce facilitators. They have an 84% FAILURE RATE and have a personal divorce rate HIGHER than the gen population.


No, what is sure to bring an end to you is her continued contact with the OM. Your marriage can recover some temporary anger at exposure, it won't survive this ongoing affair.

My suggestion would be to MAN UP and stop appeasing her. Your appeasement helps no one and only harms your marriage.

One thing you need to learn about women, alarrson, is that they do not respect men they can run over. And women do not LOVE men they don't respect. Believe me, she does not want a wimp for a H and will throw you away faster for wimpiness than she would for not appeasing her inappropriate demands. She will grow to HATE you for allowing her to run over you.

you're right. I am doing everything I can to convince her to leave, but I have let her walk all over me for years. While I am trying to be insistent on what I need from her, i get the feeling that she is thinking that if she just resists for long enough that I'll eventually let it pass. So, to keep pushing the point of her leaving as a necessity to recovery, how do i balance that with plan A? Every time i bring the A up she gets upset, so I am having a tough time understanding how I am supposed to remind her how great things can be through plan A will periodically upsetting her with discussion about leaving work. What makes it harder is that she cannot simply transfer to another program at another university. There are only a hand full of universities that have her program in the country and each of them does completely different stuff. Nothing would be able to transfer, not her classes, and not her research. I could give her an ultimatum, but given her history, when given an ultimatum, she will choose the opposite option that the person giving the ultimatum wants. She is the most stubborn person i have ever met. Leaving her job now would set her back 2 or more years. I know it isn't an excuse, but i am positive that she will not give that up voluntarily.

MelodyLane, thank you for your patience with me. I am sure that my resistance to yours and others suggestions is frustrating. I am just having a hard time applying them to my situation and seeing a path forward that has a chance of working. I guess at some point I'll have to take a leap of faith and do something and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe I'm not yet ready to realize that this might be a lost cause since everything is so recent, and have nothing to lose by exposure at work.

When we talked about the exposure last night, she was really mad that I had acted normal all weekend (doing my best at plan A) and then dropped the bombshell on monday morning. She accused me of acting fake all weekend while planning to hurt her and OM monday morning. After that she told me that she wants to work things out, but that she has serious doubts that it is possible. I am guessing that this is partly from the withdrawal. If she is truly in withdrawal from NC, how long would that last, and how can i tell if it is withdrawal vs anger towards me?

do i put off plan A for a while, and go full steam ahead trying to get her to leave the university?

It depends...Are you through being her doormat?

no more doormat for me, but do I change tunes suddenly, or gradually. She is so used to it, that I fear is that a sudden change will drive her back to OM.

I have to say that I have learned more about myself in these last few days than i ever thought was possible. If nothing else comes of this, at least I am getting a good look at who I really am and have a chance for some real self improvement.

If you really want to feel better about yourself and feel like a man again they you need to reclaim your wife.

You think she respects you when you let her walk all over you?

Expose to HR today.

If she chooses to leave you over her job then where were you on the priority list to start with?

A8,

Why are you doing this? You are 3 months into your marriage, I seriously doubt this is the first time she has strayed in your relationship. Are you willing to live a life of hiding the truth from your own family, doubting the paternity of your children, and having a wife who walks all over you?

The only thing i can say that that is I still love her. I see why it would make sense that this is not the first time she has strayed, but over the past 7 years of our relationship, these last 8 months have really taken on a different tone. A little over a year ago we moved to a new area when she started her residency. Now we both drive an hour each way and her work takes a huge toll on her. Over that same time period we were planning a wedding out of state and required many weekend drives of 5 hours each we to deal with wedding stuff. Looking back, i am not surprised we created a situation where an affair was possible. But, when I look at the previous 6 years with the same critical eye, I can't see any of the classic signs that any of this was going on. Nevertheless, i am going to investigate to see if anything happened previously, but don't expect to find anything.

The people I have told so far are people with influence over WW. My family would not have any influence over my WW, so telling them at this point would just have the effect of spreading gossip with no real benefit. Right now I am getting my support from my MIL and WW's sister. In the event i need to rely on my family I will tell them. As it stands right now, I am getting conflicting suggestions from MIL, WW's sister, and this board. Adding my family to the mix would only make it worse.

I do not intend to live my life with a wife that walks all over me. If our marriage has any hope of real repair, it will have to included us getting back to an even footing when it comes to respect and all the rest, not just her decision to stay with me for lack of a better option.

alarrson, you will quickly learn that feelings are not enough to sustain any marriage. Feelings come and go with the changing moons, but bad marriages can cause a lifetime of damage. A marriage that has a history of living together [a huge minus] and an early affair does not bode well for the future.

You may have feelings today, but those feelings are not sufficient reason to remain in a bad situation. Not to mention that you won't have those feelings much longer at this rate. Adultery and its accompanying dishonesty are huge lovebusters and your W is insistent on remaining in contact with her affair partner. Your love won't last long under those conditions.

That IS Plan A.


Ok, so you would rather your marriage die a death of a thousand cuts from an on again, off again affair? Your marriage will not make it that way, alarrson.

Here is how I would play this out.

Step 1: Set her down and firmly tell her that your marriage will not make it as long as she continues to work in the same place as the OM. Your marriage cannot survive 3 ppl and it will be impossible for her to withdraw if she is triggered every day. Tell her this is not a way you can live and ask her what she plans on doing about it.

She either agrees to leave or tells you to go to he11. If she won't do it, then go to step #2

Step 2: officially expose the affair at the top levels

if that doesn't work to get one of them to leave, onto Step 3

Step 3: go into Plan B, which is a separation that lasts until she agrees to end her contact with OM

This is not a step that you can cut, I promise you. It is up to you to be FIRM in your resolve and VERY STUBBORN when it comes to saving your marriage. Because recovery is impossible if she continues to work with this guy.

A8,

You have so little invested in the marriage at this point. You can invest in this and always have a marriage that started with an A, maybe it will be great but that is not the odds. Or you can cut your losses, learn from this situation and be a better husband to W2.

one clarification....

When you say "if she won't do it" do you mean if she won't agree to leave, or of she won't even give me a response? If she tell me to go to he11, do i still expose?



Another thing that has me agonizing about this is the OM's 2 young children. It will be very hard for me to tell HR knowing that most likely the OM will be fired and that I will be putting the OMW and their children through something they don't deserve via potential financial turmoil. I realize that I did not cause this mess, WW and OM did, but then I tell myself that I am the bigger person and that I shouldn't bring anymore hard to these children and the OMW even if it comes at my expense. I know that is something I need to get over, but I have lived my whole life putting other people first. It is a very hard habit to break. It was extremely hard to me to even call the OMW and tell her about the affair, foolishly hoping it will end and she won't have to know. Affecting the kids' lives by potentially ruining their father's career is extremely hard for me to contemplate, they are at no fault here, and I don't think I could do that to them.