It's your choice, of course, and you have a "free out" because you are married to an adulterer. However, you and your wife have both been ready to D one moment and then ready to see a counselor and do "whatever it takes" the next moment. You both change from day to day, and that is NORMAL. For that very reason, the rule of thumb is that you should not make any big decisions for at least six months following D-Day.

I would hate to see you divorce now and regret it in a year or two. You can always D in a few months, after you've made a real attempt to save this marriage. Then you can look back and honestly say you gave it your best.

I understand your love is dying, and that, too, is normal. You aren't expected to just sit there and take it while your wife behaves in such a hurtful manner toward you. That is what Plan B is for. BUT... Plan B has to follow a good Plan A and you have yet to execute a good Plan A.

You don't have to do Plan A or Plan B - you can toss aside our advice and just divorce if you want to. It's your life.

I must say, however, that from my perspective you have some work to do on you before you're ready to be a good partner to someone else. Even if you decide to D your WW, I strongly encourage you to remain at MB and focus on learning to be a better partner for whoever you meet in the future.

I guess I don't know what here EN's are. You need to learn to identify your partner's ENs and meet them. I strongly suspect you have never known your wife's top ENs and that has contributed to her seeking companionship outside the M. If you don't learn to identify and meet ENs, then your next relationships are going to follow the pattern that this one has set, and that would be a shame.

everything I try hasn't worked... With all due respect, you haven't even tried Plan A and your exposure was weak at best.

I think the easiest thing would be to recoup what I can, and find another woman who has her mind and maturity in the right place. You need to learn how to nurture a relationship before you seek out another woman. Granted, a great deal of the problems you are having lie with your WW, but surely you realize that they also lie partially with you, and that you need to make some changes before you are going to be suitable lifetime partner material.

You have work to do, whether this marriage is saved or not. You may as well try to improve yourself within the context of your marriage. You have nothing to lose and much to gain.

Like Turtle points out, you haven't really tried what has been suggested to you here. You have run in circles, changed your mind about 20 times and followed almost none of the advice given to you as it was given. Rather you have latched onto pieces of what has been said to you, misapplied some of it, misunderstood other parts and now are frustrated because nothing seems to work.

If you're ready to actually try MB methods to save your marriage, it might still be possible.

If you want to just divorce and move on, so be it.

But until you actually try doing things the way Dr Harley suggests, you haven't really tried Marriage Builders as a solution.

If you have a GPS in your car, it can get you from where you are to where you want to go quite easily. But YOU have to follow the directions it gives you or you still end up lost.

Same with a map.

Or assembling one of those "Easy to assemble" pieces of furniture you get at one of those warehouse stores.

It isn't enough to read the directions.

You have to read them and follow them to get the desired result.

Mark

I realize why she wants to be friends, looking at the many cards that were opened in her name only and have all sort of balances. I wasn't aware of several of these cards until just a couple of weeks ago.
I don't know my rights here, but not sure why I would be responsible for things in her name that aren't mine and I wasn't even aware of or had no way of knowing about. I need to consult with an attorney on that I'm sure.

I completely agree, I won't be attending, no reason to at this point.

She has gone to counseling once, but in the 6 weeks since this has started, not 1 time has she ever said she wanted to work on marriage, she has stated, and continues to state the entire time she wants a divorce. She went to counseling with me twice, and both times she stated before we went in there, that she wasn't there for marriage counseling, only to help me with my emotions. So, for someone to say for 6 weeks straight, all they want is a divorce, means to me that all they want is divorce.
I won't be dating or seeking out new relationships anytime soon, especially not before I'm divorced.

Hi, 35.

Ready for some long-winded perspective from a WW? I was looking for a distraction from my own h*ll and stumbled on your story here. I'm in the throes of affair-confession aftermath, so I may not be the best source for you, but I feel compelled to jump in.

First, I don't like your name. If you want to be successful at anything, you need to portray success or at least optimism. Fake it, anyway. I'm going to refer to you only as 35. You have failed nothing. You have maybe made poor choices (who hasn't?) but you are not a failure.

Just as you need your wife to be honest with you, you absolutely have to be honest with her. When you told her FIL, you should have told her you did that when you did it. When you talked with the OM, you should have told her. Anything you do regarding your marriage, anyone else you involve, any work you're doing to save it, any changes in how you're running your finances, you must be up front with her. (And speaking of finances, I have my own thoughts I'll share in a bit.) You must let her know. She will validate her own lies and "truth ommissions" if you're doing the same. You must be completely open about everything you feel, everything you think, and what you're doing. Even your little lie about why you wanted to sleep in your own bed... First of all you shouldn't have to justify wanting to sleep in your own bed. But when you decided to answer, you should have told her the truth. How is the truth about how YOU feel wrong? If you show her that respect, maybe she'll begin to do the same. Read up on Basic Concepts and Radical Honesty here on this website. It has been the hardest thing I've done and I may have lost my husband because of my complete honesty (not what you want to hear, perhaps), but it has helped me to at least dare to look at myself in the mirror again. Please please please tell her everything. It'll show her a.) how much you really are fighting for the M, b.) that you have nothing to hide, and c.) she'll know exactly what she's getting in forms of consequences or rewards. Let her know what you're doing, set the expectations then follow through.

It sounds to me like you're now doing the work around the home. (How is the housework coming?) But don't sacrifice without setting boundaries. She needs to be doing her chores still and respecting and appreciating the work you're doing. (Have you considered doing housework together?) It sounds like you may have fallen short for many years and you're trying to make up for it in the last five weeks. That's great and keep it up. But don't go overboard and set new expectations that aren't possible to maintain nor are your responsibility in the first place. Do what you should out of love and respect and because you really want to. Those habits will be the ones that stay and that you'll both benefit from.

I am a VERY remorseful FWW. I do not resemble your wife in how she is treating you and your marriage. I would have given anything to have my husband fight for me as you are when I told my H I was worried about our marriage three years ago. But let me try to step into her shoes if I may...

"Why should I leave my H when I have it so made? To be able to live the life of a single gal, going out with friends, staying wherever I want when I want, 'dating' other guys at will, drinking, buying clothes, not worrying about other responsibilities, doing whatever I want... Oh, and as an added bonus, I have a home that is mine that my H keeps clean, I don't have to worry about my financial security because I have someone footing 50% of my bills, I have a man who tells me he loves me, I have a place to do my laundry, I can go to school, and again, do whatever I want..." Why should this woman divorce you? There is absolutely ZERO consequence to what she is doing. Look. I'm going to put the OM aside for a minute. While I agree with everyone here that there is probably something going on, you don't have the proof and no one absolutely knows yet so whatever. I'll play devil's advocate and say there is officially no OM participating in this. But just based on everything else, I'd be putting my foot down if I were you. If my H was going out both weekend nights drinking with his buddies and not coming home until the next morning... He'd get one freebie and that freebie would only be because he was too drunk to drive and was at a friend's house that I knew. But no more after that. There are taxis to bring people home or in the case of my H and me, we will go pick the other one up if there is impairment or a car trouble. My H and I do socialize separately at times with friends and we both travel on business (when I was employed), but when we're in town we would never stay anywhere but our own home. And her coming and going? Her not allowing you to excercise with her? Telling you she's staying home then changing her mind and going out? Getting mad at you for telling her family after she lied that they knew everything? Saying she can't trust you and you're driving her away? Showing absolutely no comprimise in her actions? Only if you guys were roommates would these thoughtless actions be tolerable. Why do you want to be treated this way by your spouse -- the person who is supposed to care about you more than anyone else?

If she really wants a divorce, she would have gotten one or at least filed for one by now. She's doing everything to make you feel you're at fault so you'll give up, you'll file, then she won't be the "bad guy". I know because I did the same. My husband was mean to me and couldn't have given a rat's a** about me for all I knew for a few years. But when I thought of actually going through with a D, something stopped me. So I started being cold to my H. Stopped all efforts in fighting for our marriage. And he finally noticed. I told him that I didn't love him. That I didn't feel connected to him and if not for the kids, I would have left him months ago if not a couple years ago. This was all the truth and it hurt him so badly. I believe I was hoping maybe he'd leave me then I could keep my As a secret forever. I could tell everyone that I tried everything to save us and while the split ended up mutual, he was the one who left me.

If I may comment on your communication with the OM... That was a mistake in that if he really did not know she was in like with him, you then planted the seed that the OM maybe didn't know existed. That's why that was a mistake, in my opinion. In my case, I never once looked at my co-worker as a possible hook-up a.) because I wasn't looking for someone other than my H, and b.) because my OM was married with three kids. When my OM said he was attracted to me and had been for over 18 months and that he cared deeply for me, he opened that door. He provided a protected place for me to share all of my marriage woes. I never would have approached him, but once the OM made himself available to me and he provided me with opportunity, while I said no at first and even at second, eventually I wound up in his arms. He became my "Safe Place" because I told myself my H didn't understand me. The OM did. (Which now, of course I know was all BS.)

Finances... I am not a lawyer. But when I thought of leaving my H I learned I live in a no fault state. Even adultery in our state cannot play a role in how property is divided. Finances are 50/50. So whether she contributes 10%, 50%, or 75% to the household income, I strongly recommend you not hoard more than 50% of it. I agree that you cannot finance her affair. But if you start taking undue amounts of money from the household income, realize you may be responsible for those amounts if you two do split. Just as she would be. Consider arranging an initial consultation with a divorce lawyer. Some will do the first one free and not require a commitment to going through with a D. Just be very careful with joint money.

So my advice, FWIW:
1.) Listen to the experts on this site. They are very blunt and it can hurt hearing what they say, but it's coming from experience, knowledge, and genuine compassion. They will call you on the carpet and smack you around but they do so for very good reason. It comes from the very real place of wanting to help you. Heck, if they can have compassion for an adultress like myself, they absolutely will have your best interests in mind too.
2.) Do the plan A and things Mark1952 has outlined. He gives great advice and it's all been proved. These suggestions were not made up over drinks at a bar one night. They are based on real-life over years and years time by people exactly like you.
3.) If she insists she needs to move out, why is it always to that one friend's place? Is that the only friend she has? Why can't she move in with her parents especially if it's only for a few nights here and there. You say they're good, Christian people who have your back as well as hers and because they know everything, I would think they'd make their couch available to her if she needs to get away to figure things out.
4.) When she says she's going to have a nervous breakdown because of what YOU'RE doing, tell her you're there for her but you can't withhold your concerns and needs from her. You're married and you have to be honest with her, and if she needs to breakdown, you'll hold her up and get her whatever help she needs. I had a fullblown anxiety attack but it wasn't because of what my H did, it was because of the burden of the lies I was holding in me.

This victimization that she's pulling on you is classic. She is doing everything to make this whole mess your fault. Maybe you haven't been a good H. Maybe you have messed up royally. But if that's really the case and she can't be with you any more, than she can't be with you and she needs to leave. This draggin you around and calling the shots is just sad for everyone. If she's willing to take responsibility for her role in the marriage's demise, come clean, and re-commit to the M, then make sure she knows through your words AND actions that you're in it 100% too. And make her know (through Plan A, etc.) that you will trust her true commitment only through her words AND actions as well.

I have spewed well beyond my allowable time, but I have to add one more thing about forgiveness. No one is owed anyone's forgiveness. Forgiveness can only be given if one chooses to give it. And Forgiveness can only fully be reached if the person who produced the harm is truly sorry for what he/she did. You can come to "accept" what your W is doing or has done, but do not feel like you owe her any forgiveness until she is remorseful for her hurtful actions. The book I read on this that has helped me so much as I've been going through all my pain with my broken marriage and my affairs is called "How Can I Forgive You?" by Janis Abrahms Spring. It is helping me deal with my own lies, how I feel about the OM, and how I can help my H.

Good luck, 35. I'll keep reading to see how you're doing. Not sure if I've helped or just mucked up your thoughts any more. But at the end of the day, remember you have to look out for you too. You have your dignity, your rights, and your love to give. She can be a part of it or not. Ultimately that's not your decision but hers.

Take care.

So what do YOU want?

My wife told me she wanted a divorce too.

I'll bet most WWs who are in an affair when they get caught say they want a divorce.

Look 35, she lied to you about the affair; she lied to you about them being "just friends," she lied to you about contact; she his an entire part of her life a secret from you and you can probably identify 100 times she lied about where she was going, where she had been or who she was with during this whole process.

So you choose to believe that she doesn't love you, hasn't loved you in _____ years, that she has been unhappy for ____ years and that she married you for the wrong reasons etc....and that she wants a divorce.

I'll bet she'd change her mind if you'd actually fight for her.

Maybe not, but being unsure of yourself, letting her run all over you and trying to coerce her or trick her into staying sure won't attract her back.

At this point words are worthless. All that matters now is actions...both yours and hers...

If she hated you and wanted to be gone, she'd be gone.

If you want to win her back you have to act. It will be what you DO that counts now, not what you say...Not to her, not here and not to a counselor. Actions will show what your intentions are and hers as well.

She she wants you to remain friends so she can come back to you when she is done boinking OM. She wants you to be friends so she can have you keep meeting her ENs that you do meet, even if it is only FS. She wants to remain friends because she wants the safety net of you being there to catch her when her relationship with OM has collapsed and she is in free-fall (She KNOWS it is destined for ruin already)

She doesn't want to leave you, 35. She wants your blessing while she boinks OM until she gets tired of it and then she wants to come back to you and have you pick up the pieces of her life and take care of her like she is used to.

You can't act when you are analyzing. You can't act when you are reacting. You can't act when you are afraid to do anything.

It is time for action.

Be her action hero...

Save her from herself.

Mark

As an aside to L4, I agree with some of what you said, but I disagree with quite a bit as well. I don't want to threadjack 35's thread. You want to discuss it on your thread or on a new one?

Yes please! I value your thoughts immensely, Mark. I'm still new to this trying-to-fix-the-marriage-you-totally-messed-up thing. Please tell me (politely) where to go.

35,

I don't usually reply to myself but this is a different thought and I figured it should stand on its own.


Dr Harley suggests that men should be able to do a real Plan A for about 6 MONTHS. (Women about 3 months because women are generally less aggressive and less competitive than men because of lower testosterone levels) If you want to save your marriage you're only in the first half right now. You don't have to wait till half time to make adjustments when the other team is killing you on the field.

My wife and I were both Sunday school teachers, youth workers, on the praise and worship team, leaders in the church, had over 30 years together, had raised two kids, owned a house and vacation property and were the poster children for what a marriage was supposed to be. When she took up with OM our life went to pieces rather quickly and it was over 10 weeks after she finally stopped all contact with OM before she said anything nice to me or about me at all.

AND that even though I exposed to her sister within minutes of finding out, her other sister within 48 hours, our pastor and her best friend within 24 hours, her step mother before I even confronted her (step mother lives next door to OM and my wife was there visiting when I discovered the affair and had to wait 48 hours in order to confront her.) I also exposed to the pastor of the church she attended when visiting her step mother, her friends from the church there and a couple of others at our home church...

It still took over a month for her to decide to "try to work things out" even with all these folks telling her she was being an idiot. And it was another 2 1/2 months before I saw signs that she was even slightly remorseful and willing to work on the marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage you have to save it FIRST. Unless you do what it takes to save it, you will have no marriage to fix. You have to save it in order to fix it and you can't do the former by trying to do the latter.

Identify her ENs and meet them as much as she allows.

Identify Love Busters in your own actions and kill them dead.

Expect NOTHING from her in the way of a sign, a commitment or a thankyou.

1) Meet her ENs (Have to KNOW what they are first)
2) Kill Love Busters (Unless you know what these are in your own life, nothing you do in #1 will matter)
3) (All together now...) No Expectations

Have you read the Plan A stuff I directed you to?

Did you read TMTS's threads to see how a Plan A should go when your wife says she is moving out no matter what?

Mark

I think this, by itself, is convincing evidence that she's having an affair, regardless of what you believe of this former friend's statements 2 the contrary. It may be him (probably) or it may be someone else (probably, if it's not the "friend"), but it's an affair (very unlikely that it's just this party lifestyle that she seems 2 want you 2 believe she's living, but not impossible).

Regardless of what role this "OM" may be playing in this, it was dangerous and inappropriate of you 2 discuss your marriage with him. But you did, it's done, he's not a "friend" anymore.


My W said this during our first MC session. And kept repeating it 2 my IC and others for quite a while after that. You need 2 realize that she CAN'T think rationally while she's in this mindset and/or having an affair. Don't expect her 2 make sense, and don't try 2 fathom the unfathomable. It'll only make you crazy.


Bull feathers. It means NOTHING at all. It could just as easily be a subconscious cry for help. Either way, your response will be telling. You say you've been reading on the website. If you have, you know what works and what doesn't. Agreeing with this alien when she says she wants a DV is a reaction, not a response. You need 2 change the subject 2 restoring your marriage, or simply refuse 2 talk about DV.


Neither will I. But like you, I'm not GETTING a divorce. Unlike you, I'm not struggling 2 save my marriage. So forget about talk about when it's appropriate 2 date or not. It's not even on the horizon right now.

I think it was Mark who recommended you call the Harleys, a few pages back.

Best advice so far. Fire the counselor and call the Harleys. Because while counseling is a waste of time when an affair is going on, coaching with the Harleys, who specialize in helping marriages recover from infidelity and will know how 2 engage your W, if/when that's appropriate, isn't a waste of time or money.

-ol' 2long

Mark, I wrote this a few days ago.

"You finish up your last post with tell me what to do.

Why? You don't do it." Was my response to that post of his.

I told 35 this a few days ago. He is letting fear control him. Why, I don't know. His WW is off banging the OM. What he is doing is not stopping the SF with the OM from continuing.

So you would think that he would be open to new ideas.

I think he is not here for proven and sound advice. He wants only to hear that his ideas, actions, plans, stragies are right on target. It does not matter that they do not work. He just wants affirmation that he should keep doing what he want's to do.
He is not open to MB ideas.

I don't know what to say other than WOW, I tell you all I'm throwing in the towel and you guys pull me back up with your hands extended. I'm truly speechless at your story, that's just unreal motivation for me.
I have always been known as the nice guy and I guess the too nice of a guy for my wife to try to run me over and after reading your story it's just nuts, how identical the information is.
I have a plan in place this weekend when she comes to visit. It's going to be an all or nothing plan. I believe that I can make it work, but it's going to be rough on her emotionally and financially, but by pulling the strings that enable her financially, I think I may have a shot at this.
I succumbed to her financially, when she told me 50/50 on everything from here on out. Well, she doesn't tell me what to do and I won't let her run away on us this easy, I know that if I can get her away from the 'friends' for a period of time, I can win her heart back. I am not an abusive person never have been, nor will I ever be. I have never done drugs and drink rarely. There's no reason for her not to live here or with her parents.
Thank you 'Looking' for your story, I am truly blessed to have read something to motivate me so much. I will tell you all what I've done after Saturday.
Can a mod please change my name at this point to Blitz30, I don't want to be known as 35 and failed anymore. You're right, I haven't failed. I haven't failed at all.

I am open to them, I need to listen, you are right. I am letting her control me and not the other way around. I'm not sure why I'm so fearful. I will reopen my ears. I am sorry.

Mark you are very right, I am letting her walk on me and worried about her emotions, why am I still trying to protect her from herself? I really don't know why I am. You are right, all of you are right, Looking did a good job at telling the story, I appreciate what she gave me in that story. Mark you are right, I act now or I lose either way. By giving into her demands I am enabling her to carry on whatever she is doing with OM whomever he is, and if what my gut tells me is right, especially what you guys are all telling me, I have to break this fog that she is in, it has a strong hold on her, just like you said, an alien has taken her over, she is not the person she was. I need her back in her original state and I have to do whatever it takes at this point to win her back. I have to make it happen, I don't need to think about it another minute. She will be back here on Saturday and I will make it happen then. I will keep you all updated, PLEASE change my name to Blitz30 , I can't stand being called 35andfailed anymore, I'm not a failure and I don't want to be branding myself that way any longer. Thank you.

Missed my point entirely.


That's my point.

Go into <My Stuff> <My Profile> and change it yourself. You still log in under the name you registered under but your screen name changes.

This would be called fixing her and is NOT what you want to do.

We've told you what that is:

Meet her Emotional Needs.
Kill the Love Busters.
Expose the affair to anyone who might be able to influence her to not throw her life with you away.

Related to the above...

Stop being so hot and cold. You are more confused than she is. Talk about fog! You need to breath, focus and come up with a PLAN.

You have to identify her ENs so you can meet them. This might actually require thought and consideration. She isn't going out to have her need of RC met by her friends, she's going out with them so she can get some other EN(s) met.

Typical woman has as her top three some combination of Financial Support, Affection, Conversation, Honesty and Openness and Family Commitment.

Now there might be many women who really want SF as number one or want RC as their top priority, but that isn't typical. Are you certain that the three you listed are her top three. How do you know. Financial Support is like SF. It's only important if you aren't getting it.

Recreational Companionship is typically male since we tend to be more competitive by nature and our recreational time tends to be more focused on activities while women tend to focus more on relationships. So women tend to spend recreational time talking, building relationships and nurturing.

If you start doing things right she will start telling you to not expect her to stay because she is leaving no matter what you do. She will tell you she doesn't trust you (funny, huh?) and say that there is nothing you can do about her leaving because your changes are too little too late.

Notice I said that is what will happen if you do it right!

If you do it wrong, she'll just leave...

Don't discuss relationship problems with her. Don't bring up the affair every time you see her. Don't blow you top and shout at her or call her names.

If you want to stay married to this woman then you have to make yourself better than OM. Especially if all she has with OM is a fantasy. She has never picked up his dirty socks from the floor next to the hamper. She has never seen him hung over, sick with a virus that has him puking on the floor in the head or spent three hours preparing his favorite meal only to have him stop for a drink with his buds on the way home.

To compete with that, you have to be her dream man. You have to be better than OM. You have to be more attractive than OM (not saying cut and fit here though working out could do you a world of good by helping control your emotions and improving you moods and lessening the depression) but that you have to be a better choice than him. If she sees you as being indecisive about fighting for her, angry to the point of not being able to forgive her and make her feel attacked every time she is around you, then she won't want to be around you...

And then you lose...

Plan A is not about her. It is about you. What will YOU do? How will YOU lead her back? (Hint: you can't teach her or educate her) What can you do that will make you a better husband and a better choice than OM?

You see, you have no control over her. You can't make her do anything. The only person you can control is YOU. So YOU fix YOUR half of the marriage so she can see that YOU have changed and will now meet her ENs so she doesn't have to go to OM to get them met. Show her by your actions, not your words that you love her, care for her, desire for her to be happy and live a fulfilled life. Don't bother telling her, SHOW her.


What if she doesn't respond?

Then you start again, do it all over again, keep doing it till she does respond favorably or until your love for is is dying and then you separate from her so that any love you have left isn't destroyed be what she is doing.

Read the Trouble Shooting and Repair link in my sig line so I don't keep repeating myself so much.

Mark

Mark, you are amazing. I didn't start to really understand Plan A until I read your link called "Troubleshooting and Repair". I am still reading it and I will read it and the rest of your links until I have read it all. You are right, I need to stop being all over the map here on my emotions. I think I'm more emotional than a woman, I need to stop that asap. I need to have 1 emotion from this point forward, that is to love my wife unconditionally.
I realized that I have messed up by bringing up the OM. I see that Plan A is about what I need to do in order to fix the broken marriage. Let me continue reading your links until I am done. I need to identify her top 3 EN's asap. I now know that Financial Support isn't a top EN for her. I was wrong. It's Affection, Conversation, and Family Commitment. FS isn't in there, she is self sufficient, that's why she has moved out, she doesn't need my finances to move forward. She does need my half of the bills, but there's a loophole there that I will explain tomorrow.
Plan A starts now for me. I had to open my heart, ears and eyes to this. I confused being a nice guy, with trying to save my marriage. I believe this is where I have gone wrong. I can be nice, but not be walked on. I can implement Plan A regardless of being too nice or not. I will print and carry Plan A with me in your link so that I have it as a reminder to what needs to happen now. God I have been so blind on this until today. Once it was spelled out for me, it hit me as to what I need to do. I will let you know my progress on Plan A as it is available.

Mark, you are amazing, I don't know what drives you to write so well and in plain english, but simply amazing, I'm stunned.

Thank you Mark,
Blitz

First of all remember that you can't FIX it unless you SAVE it first. That is what Plan A is all about (As well as Plan B I might add). Plan A is about fixing YOU so that it might be saved.

Save it...

Then fix it if you can...

It will only serve its purpose if it can be made reliable for the future.

It will only be reliable if you can get it to work like it should.

You will only get to work on it if it actually exists.

It will only exist if you can save it and prevent her from destroying it all together.

That is why you need a solid Plan A.

As for what drives me... Marriage Builders is the reason I am still married and not posting on the divorcing/divorced forum. I'm paying it back by paying it forward.

As far as using plain language...I'm a Sunday School teacher (or was for many years) and I've learned to just say the same things in different ways until somebody gets it.

While you're reading, read WATS Quick Start Guide and Longhorn's thread for newly betrayed spouses at the top of Just Found Out. Follow any links that still work and read there too. If links are broken, let us know and we'll try to get them fixed or relink them here.

Plan A and Plan B can work.

Plan C almost never does, because it isn't really a plan at all.

Did you get SAA yet?

Mark

No on the SAA yet, I had to go to a cash basis temporarily to prevent further debt from accruing. I will get it ordered this weekend hopefully. I tried to find it in a local store and couldn't, I only saw His Needs / Her Needs.

You'll be reading that eventually...

Try your local lending library for SAA.

Mark

Update:

My wife came over today, she thought it was to work on the house we were going to sell as part of an uncontested divorce. I informed her that I won't be committing to an uncontested divorce. In fact, I don't want a divorce. She appeared to be rather angry, but did not show it much, but I could tell by her emotions, this isn't what she wanted to hear. We both continued to clean the house for the next 3 hours, either in the same room or near each other, within an earshot.
I walked by her at one point, she was facing away from me, scrubbing the floor and I told her, W, you are a good person, you have a big heart, and I still love you. I waited for a second and I heard her crying, but trying not to let me see it. When I walked back by another minute later, I could hear her sniffling.
I see that something has it's hold on her, whether that is another man (doubtful at this point), or something I have done to her, or alcohol, or something else, she is trying hard to stay the course. I told her that it doesn't matter, I won't hold it against her, I want to move forward with our lives and I want to rebuild our marriage, regardless of our pasts, today is a new day.
A good friend wanted me to take her to see Fireproof the movie, he told me that I should take her to see it. I am an ex volunteer firefighter of 10+ years and this story involves a firefighter and his wife. I think the impact on her would be astounding, but getting her there would be the hard part. I've invited her to accompany me to the movie tonight. I won't know until another 5 hours from now if she wants to go or not, I don't have much hope.
I told her regardless, that I'm here for the long haul, to support her. I want her to be able to come to me for anything, although I don't think she will.
She told me that living apart from me, she is having a hard time financially and wants to stop paying some of the utilities on the house that she doesn't live in anymore, but that I do. I told her that it wouldn't be a wise decision, I want to support her, but I don't want her to run over me financially. What should I do here? Should I be financially enabling her to live comfortably with her life outside of me, knowing that there is something else that might be going on? She doesn't want a contested divorce, because she can't afford it and I will have a hard time affording it, but in my heart, I can't sign an uncontested divorce until I know I've done everything I can to keep our marriage in place.
I find that she doesn't want to discuss anything emotionally about our relationship, each time we try she starts to cry or she will avoid the conversation. She wants me to roll over and play dead while she continues on the path of divorce, and I'm not going to do that. I told her today, I'm in this marriage until she comes back. I don't want this marriage to end and if I have to wait forever, I will.