I'm not sure if it is advice I am seeking or or other's like me. My H had an affair while I was pregnant. I suspected it and asked, but of course, he said no. The "happy hours" were no longer tolerated. As my profile reads, he confessed right before our child was born. The OW is in her early 20's [we are 30] and is divorced with a kid. She has every intention of keeping the baby and will be looking for child support. I am full of resentment and finding it difficult to get past it. She fully expected me to ask him to leave and according to him didn't believe he actually told me about her pregnancy. He has had no contact with her and has consulted a lawyer. We are screwed. I am tempted to go to her office to see if she is really pregnant because I find it hard to believe she has accepted his non-commitment to her and her unborn child. He told her not to call until the time comes for the blood test. She was fully aware that I was pregnant [they were both working in a small office] yet she pursued him relentlessly as he reflected in hindsight [although I am aware he is at fault too]. Sorry for rambling, but I could use any thoughts or advice.

<BR>Hi New Mom,<P>The whole issue of child support is such a huge can of worms. I've done some reading and have decided that there are several injustices going on in the current system. First, DNA evidence can be used at any time to establish paternity for the purposes of awarding child support. However, DNA may NOT be used at any time to establish non-paternity for the purpose of avoiding child support. This means that there are a growing number of men out there who are being forced to pay child support for a child that they can prove isn't even theirs. This is beyond unfair. Its just plain sick, in my opinion.<P>A second injustice is the "income shares" model of child support. These awards are based on the dubious notion that people automatically spend a fixed percentage of income on a child, regardless of what ACTUAL costs really are.<P>A third injustice, which stems from the "income shares" approach, is the notion of "imputed income." The idea is that once a child support judgment is made, the non-custodial parent (usually the father) will be making that salary forever. A great ethical example is a nuclear engineer who makes $100,000 working in a nuclear plant but decides that he'd feel a lot safer working in a different job. In fact, radiation tests on his skin reveal an increasing likelihood of cancer if he continues in his job in the nucelar plant. The catch is that, given his skills, he can only make $50,000 outside the plant. If he switches to the $50,000 job, his child support judgment will slowly bankrupt him. I aski, is it moral to literally radiate this man to death by imputing an extra $50,000 of income? Who could argue that is moral? Do the "needs of the child" demand that a father be exposed to potentially life-threatening radiation? I'm glad I personally don't have anything to do with the child support system.<P>All that said, here's a pointer to child support in Florida:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.leg.state.fl.us/citizen/documents/statutes/1998/ch0061/SEC30___.HTM#0061.30" TARGET=_blank>http://www.leg.state.fl.us/citizen/documents/statutes/1998/ch0061/SEC30___.HTM#0061.30</A> <P>In it, you'll find that your H's OW is going to be taking about 25% of your H's net income for the next 18 years, and if he changes jobs to a lower salary, that percentage is going to go up - because the child support judgments are based on "imputed income" in your state. Also, your H can be forced to place the child on his health insurance, which may cost even more, apart from the child support judgment itself. And guess what, it doesn't matter how much it actually costs to raise the child, its all based on income. And the OW doesn't have to account for a nickel of where the money goes, either. <P>About the only thing I can advise is to deny paternity and make her prove he's the father. A blood test is not enough! INSIST on a DNA test - SETTLE FOR NO LESS. If he is, though, your finances are going to be hit tremendously. I'm sorry to bear such bad news. I personally think that the income shares model awards far too much in child support, and I fully support revising the system to reflect true costs. But you know what? It ain't gonna happen anytime soon, if ever.<P>Bystander<BR>

Sorry to hear about the "issue"! I've been there, and still striving to recover. It can be done! One thing for sure that needs to be addressed is :if the both of you still want your family. Believe me, sometimes I wish I'd known what to expect because I just may have told my H back then, I do not want any part of this! LOL! Anyway, it's not going to be easy. Not like I'm a therapist or anything, but try to accept the child. Once you're around the child, in my case, I learned to enjoy my H's half in the child! Your marriage can make it even with child support, and visitations. If in fact, the blood tests prove that the child is your H's. In my case, I believed the child was my H's, because usually they know. Accepting this whole thing is something you'll face once the truth is revealed. The children are the ones who accept this unfortunate circumstance better than we do anyway. Regardless, they're comforted(mine anyway) knowing they have other family even though it was outside of their mom & dad. Realize what's impt to you. If you have a H that wants to stay in your life, and he's willing to abide by certain guidelines that will make it easier for you, then hold on to what you have! Make it better!! Sorry so long, I'll step off my soap box now!

New Mom: I am so sorry you're here and going through this. However, unfortunately or unfortunately, depending upon the point of view, you are not alone. I am in the same predicament as you are. My H's OW gave birth August 20 (girl) and the DNA results will be revealed Oct 25th...exactly one year from the day they met. I am very heart sick as well and we are trying to restore our marriage after the incredible and permanant damage done to our family. The OW is keeping the child and my H is not in contact with here since last January. He will not have any relationship of any kind with either the OW or the child and we will only pay support. We can regulate the money as we are in business for ourselves and because of my H's drinking problems and mental illness, they majority of shares in the business have been turned over to me, protecting me from her greedy grasp. I am sorry for the child and wish she would have done the decent thing and given it up for adoption to a two parent household instead of selfishly keeping it and struggling alone for the next two decades.<BR>I hope you will continue to post and look up the old posts from several of us here on this forum. You will gain much insight and comfort from what you read. Look up Jenny, Smith, Audrey, Daycare Disaster and others. As I think of them I will let you know who they are. Good luck and God bless. You're in my prayers. All the best, catnip<BR>

New Mom,<BR>You are not alone. My H and I are working on rebuilding our marriage. The OW had a baby girl in August. The OW is married and they are raising the child as their own but we pay child support and have visitation with the child. It is very difficult to handle especially when you have a young baby yourself. My H and I have 3 young children ourselves (ages are 8, 3, and 1). There are still times when I feel upset and disappointed that this is the way our life has turned out. But I try to focus on the rebuilding our marriage and making some positive changes in myself. I am sorry that you are in this situation but know that you are not alone. <P>Catnip, I had been wondering about you lately. How is everything going with you? I'll be thinking about you on the 25th. My H still hasn't arranged a paternity test but he promises he will get it done.<P>Take care,<BR>Audrey

New Mom: I get sick at my stomach each time this topic appears. I don't want anyone to go through the pain that I have. My H's OW has an 8 1/2 mo. old son. My H snuck around to see him during the 1st 7 months or so - because I simply forbid it. I wanted the "we pay $$$" otherwise - no relationship. We have a 2 yr. old daughter ourselves - and to me "some people" need to pay for their mistakes. Oh well - I decided that I would rather have his honesty than "my way". We have kept the OC a couple of times and it has actually went suprisingly well. It still grabs me in my gut sometimes - and I have good and bad days- but - oh well - I'm trying to be more positive.<P>You need to understand that in this situation (especially) honesty is the key. If your H can be honest with you and tell you everything - and you can respond without lovebusting - that in itself will put you on the right track to healing. I'm sure not a day will go by that you wish your life hadn't turned out this way (I surely do) and I wish and wish and wish (my H's OW was 19) that she would have thought enough about her life as well as ours that she would have given the child up for adoption (because my H sure didn't have any choices in that). I have really gotten bitter with the justice system - it is so unfair to me. She got to choose if she wanted the child or not and my H surely didn't get a say so in things.<P>Please turn to this website for support. It has been a real life saver for me. Make sure it is your H's child. We didn't have the paternity tests, etc., but he favor my H to much - and I know it is his - as well as he does. I can't really offer a whole lot of advice - it will simply be - take babysteps and minutes seem like eternity.<P>It is so very good that your H has not had contact. I was not and am not so lucky in that case. I'm trying and it is definately an uphill battle! Please keep us posted and ask any kind of question that pops in your mind.<P>------------------<BR>

Thanks so much for everyone's input. We are doing exactly as Catnip. My H has no desire to ever see her again or the child once born. We are planning to move as to not allow easy access for the OW to make our life hell. I had a problem paying over money with no input on the OC's life, but he is insistent. It is not uncommon around here for this type of girl to get pregnant to trap the man. But her plan failed. It's almost hard not to feel sorry for her having to deal with her mistake alone, especially divorced and with another child. Then again, she as fully aware of his situation and chose to make herself easy. I saw it at my office with a girl constantly at a coworkers desk - feeding his ego, listening when he had problems with his marriage. I am on maternity leave and found out he fell for it. They have been caught touching each other and many other things. He has two girls [2yrs and 7 mths]. I am so disgusted. It seems all I see are people cheating all over, and on tv all the topics are about cheating spouses. I am trying to get past this and my H is always willing to listen when the pressure builds up. He has been great. Although it is hard not to throw out nasty comments, but I have succeeded so far. Thanks again, I really needed to hear this. It has lifted a great weight, more than you know.

New Mom: The money is problem for me as well. I am fortunate to be self-employed with my H and able to control the salaries and adjust them so that my H's salary is significantly less than mine. Therefore, the state she lives in can take only a percentage of his salary and it will not effect me in any way.<BR>I'm not trying to pull a fast one, I am only trying to protect what few assets I have left after the damage he has done to our business while he was drinking and suffering from mental illness and screwing around. We would have adjusted everything anyway because of his problems even if this would not have happened.<BR>I am firm on my H not having any contact on any level or I cannot stay in the marriage as it would be too painful for me. He does not want any contact anyway, so this is not a problem. The OW lives on the east coast and we are in the midwest so the distance factor will help us keep a distance!<P>Audrey: Hey. How are you doing? I've wondered about you, too. I hope you're OK and maintaining. Isn't this the most amazing and incredible and horrible thing you've ever gone through? I still shake my head in disbelief wondering what the hell happened, how it happened, how could it happen. I know what the answer will be next Monday, but, I keep praying "please, God, don't let it be true"...my constant mantra since January 15th. <P>Daycare: I read one of your posts recently where you were saying the OW is now working at the new daycare facility you're sending your child to. How much more insult to injury do we have to absorb? I'm storming the heavens for you to get through this. <P>If these betrayers are going to be so selfish and thoughtless, inconsiderate and willful, feeding their egos at our expense, the LEAST they can do is put a sock on it so we don't have to endure the ultimate heartbreak of the arrival of the OC. What jerks. And why do we stay with them, and work so hard all by ourselves to repair the marriage while they 'withdraw' all over the place and make us miserable? What's in it for us? Do we want them because they didn't want us for a time while they we getting their jollies? Do we want them because the OW took our place for a while and it feels so good to be the winner? The winner of what? The booby prize? Do we want them back because we want to perpetuate our dream for happily ever after...to resurrect years past when we thought it was good and when we believed they loved us so much? Are we chumps, fools, or do we not have enough self-respect and dignity to tell them the marriage is over because of the despicable acts they've committed? Is marriage to a person capable of such horrendous acts worth fighting for when they didn't fight for you or the marriage and chose to spend those energies on their own pathetic, worthless egos at our expense. Is the marriage only sacred and special to us and just a convenient commodity to the betrayer? Are they really decent people who have gone wrong for a time and need forgiveness and understanding? Would they give you the same if it were you who were the betrayer? Has most of the marraige been all about them and very little about you? Do you do wonderful things for the betrayer and receive little or nothing in return? Is the marriage really in your best interest or just in the betrayer's best interest? Now that the betrayer has had their fun, explored new and interesting and exciting and illicit sex with someone else at your expense, fed their ego, played a part of being someone they're not, all at your expense, without any thought or concern for you, is it worth your time to be married to someone who is so lacking in character and integrity, who is not nearly good enough for you? <BR>These are some of the questions I have been asking myself over the past couple weeks. It's ironic that it is at a time when my H is so completely committed and involved with me, wants to re-marry me and will be wearing his wedding ring after 17 years of not wearing it (it's being sized). He couldn't be more loving and wonderful. It's what I wanted so badly from him last year and just couldn't get from him. I will never, ever understand how he could do these things to me, to us. Do any of you find yourself as completely incredulous at what has happened to you and how quickly it all happened and the horror at the outcome (the OC) and do you struggle with whether or not it's worth staying in the marraige? So do you doubt yourself and have issues of your worth as a woman that you never had before? Has your spouses affair and the OW's OC made you insecure beyond words? Do you even recognize yourself anymore? Are you obsessed? Do you think you can get through this and make the marriage work? A lot of people do, I hear. I have even heard that it can be better than you ever imagined possible with a new understanding and maturity. I wish us all only the best. We deserve it. God bless you and forgive me for my crazy negatives. I just have so many questions and need to know if any of you ask yourselves the same things.

ugh......I wish that we could all hop outta this kettle of fish... It stinks...I can't seen to break free of the OW/OC at this time so Im done trying... She can have him!<P>cozy<BR>

Catnip, I am very grateful that you are willing to share so much. It really helps. I do feel incredibly insecure. It's as if I got pregnant and with that gained weight, etc. and I became his mom and he didn't want me at all. I AM obsessing about all those times he was out and knowing that he was lying but not wanting to believe. His affair lasted 6 mos. When he told me about all of this, I acted as though it was a complete shock the affair that is. He had been so unresponse [because he found out about the OW pregnancy] and distant. He kept saying that he had personal issues to deal with. I kept telling him we could get through it and just to share it with me. The day before he was beginning his new job, he was at home. He called me at work and began to cry saying that he was going to have a nervous breakdown. It was all I could do to keep from coming home, but he said it would be better if we just talked that night. When he told me, the only thing I could say was why didn't you use a condom! He was crying so hard, and I was crying so hard, it was a mess. The weird part is that I suddenly felt as if I had to be the grown up and have been ever since. Not a day goes by though that I don't think about it. It has gotten easier. I didn't know what to do. Was I supposed to throw him out? Was I supposed to leave? Should I move to my parents in another state? Do I get a divorce? Do I have the strength to strangle this woman while pregnant? Well, the answer was no to all of them, although I do have the strength now, ha ha. I feel like our few friends that know look at me with pity and I can't stand it. His best friend couldn't believe that he would do such a thing, especially since my H and I have always been the best of friends until I got pregnant and couldn't go out and 'play' like before. Once I had to change my lifestyle, its as if he resorted to the immature college punk. He didn't want to grow up and face resonsibility. But he did expect me to. How unfair is that? <P>We seem to have gotten back to how it used to be, but with our child. I'm glad I didn't throw him out, or move back to my parents [yuk]. I think we are stronger, yet he sometimes gets ill at the thought of me having to deal with this. However, my insecurity is overwhelming. I also cut my long hair off while pregnant, thinking I needed that change [his grand idea]. So really short hair and big body, talk about sexy. I am trying to get back to my prepregnancy weight, but I know it takes time. It's been 3 months and my hair is growing and I'm about 15 lbs away. I am proud of myself considering. I can honestly say that if my H had told me that he no longer loved me and was in love with someone else, then and only then, would I have been crushed. And he would have lived in eternal hell. I am SO looking forward to moving and can hardly contain my excitement. Although we do love this city and vowed to never move. I just can't take the culture anymore. Not once did a man care that I was married, or that he was. They still wanted to go out on dates. Although I am Latin, I don't look it. The women here resent a latin man marrying an 'American' woman. And they have no problem saying so, in addition to no shame in trying to get with him. I'm only dissappointed my H fell for it. Of course I'm not saying all Latins are like that here, but I have seen my share firsthand. <P>I am quite confident that we will only become stronger in our 'friendship' and hope our new city will bring us more happiness than this one did. Thanks again.<BR>

Catnip: You echoed most all of my thoughts and feelings and frustrations and anger, sadness, shock. I still am shocked over my situation. I wake up every day and think "is this a dream, my life?" I appreciate your thought too about the OW working at my child's daycare. As you see she is very self-centered and all she thinks about is what "she wants" and "she usually gets it". Her parents spoil her rotten and she thinks everyone else is suppossed to, too.<P>I hate my H for "allowing" her to call all the shots. I mentioned that perhaps we could get the OC for a night (spend the night). He was like "she would never go for that." Well, it's okay that you take off from your job to keep him and we keep him when she has "things to do" or "needs a break". You know? He doesn't even see it, or doesn't want to. I feel so angry at MIL and my H for making OW like "part of the family" Sometimes I wish I had just said ' go on and have your life ' I can't do this, I'm simply not strong enough. And I really don't think I am - I think I am faking it, mostly. I guess I wanted my H mainly because I didn't want OW to have him. Sick, huh? But then, I do love him and always wanted the "happily ever after" like you said. I also don't want to be deemed as being a "failure". I love him dearly and I also don't want me and my child to be "cheated" from the life we had planned years ago. Oh well - I'm rambling - I know your pain, your fears, your constant 'going over every detail of everything you can get your mind on". It drives me insane at times. I wonder if I'll really make it through this- I don't know - I guess it is one day at a time.<P>------------------<BR>

Catnip: I very much relate to your mantra. I am sure that the OC is my H's so I don't hold out much hope, but it would be a thousand times better than winning the lottery if the OC turned out to NOT be his. The first few weeks after the OC was born were rough for us. I'm only now beginning to believe that maybe things really can work out for our family. I ask myself a lot of the same questions that you talked about. It is hard not to feel cheated in so many ways. But I have learned so many things about myself through this journey. I know that whatever the outcome, I will be a stronger and better person. <P>I'm not thrilled about the financial obligation but the impact has been minimal since my H sold his Cadillac to pay for the child support. We have, at least so far, avoided the legal hassles of this mess and have come to an agreement with the other couple. We estimated the costs of having a child and are paying 1/2. This works out to be about 1/2 of what they could ask us to pay. I know there are risks involved in doing it this way but we have accepted that fact.<P>The emotional impact is so much more difficult. I'm not sure we are doing the best thing by being involved with the OC but I want to be something H and I are doing together if he's going to do it anyway (like daycare's situation). I feel sorry for the child and know that she is the innocent victim in this mess. <P>We have seen my H's OC several times now. It is still very difficult for us in a lot of ways. It makes us sad. My H appreciates what he has now and is sure to let me know. Why couldn't he "get it" without this happening? Right now our visitations are at the OW's house. My H and I go during our lunch break so that we don't have to get a babysitter for our own children. Starting next month we will begin bringing the baby to our house a couple of times a month. Somedays I deal with all this better than other days. But, in general, I think I'm doing pretty good. I am going to group therapy once a week right now and I think that really helps me deal with everything.<P>- Audrey

I have read all that has been posted and am sad to see that there are so many of us who are going thru the same trying times. The OW is due in Jan. and she keeps reaching out to my H via his pager and calling here at home and hanging up most of the time. The child support issue for us is easy we pay once the dna test is done. What is diffrent for my H and I is the OW lives maybe 2 miles from my home and she calls my H when she is lonely and afraid. She also pages him with 911 when she really wants to get hold of him. Her latest was a 911 saying she was in an auto accident and might lose the child. My H did not tell me of the calls and conversations due to his belief I would say good ridence. This all came back to bite me as she called here and said she had things of my H's and would I come get them. I did and she hit me with the fact that they had been talking and that she was being led to believe they had a future. My H and I fought for many hours after this visit I had. The bottom line is he has been kind to her for fear of being unable to see the C if he is not. I have asked him to just be honest about the contact and that he has to tell her there is no hope or leave me as I cannot be in a marriage with three people. With luck my H is planning on contacting her to tell her that he will support the C but that he is staying in his marriage and there is no room for her. I'm terrified he will not be able to go thru with it. But on the up side he is now telling me when she tried to contact him and I am thanking him for his honesty. I agree that sometimes I am unsure if what I have gotten into by staying is the best for me. I do love my H but I am fearful of the future. This woman is devious and hard to deal with. She has even contacted my mother n law to tell her of the child. My mother n law had no idea about the affair let alone the pregnancy. The OW also sent her a picture of the ultrasound and of herself. That was why I went to see her to ask her to leave the inlaws out of this. Hope you all fare better than I have so far. PW

PW: The OW in your life is HEAVILY CAMPAIGNING for your H by having the amazing crust to contact your MIL and have the gall to send an ultrasound picture as well. I cannot believe these immoral pigs who blatantly go through life disrupting lives with no concern, no conscience, without regard as to how their actions impact the lives of others. Sorry to say this to you, call me a trouble-maker, but, your H should have absolutely no contact with the OW under any circumstances. All communication should be through you and only you to make arrangements, to discuss policy, to talk about the OC needs etc. He should not speak to her for any reason. And if you don't want him to see OC, that should be your decision, not his. If you are generous enough to put up with the heartache of having the reminder in your face, then you're a better person than I am. If you can't, won't welcome the little one in your life, like me, then your H should respect that if he wants to stay in the marraige with you. These are just my humble opinions and ignore them if you will. Just me ranting and raving as ususal. I'm just sick to death of everyone running us and mandating to us how it's going to be, have our feelings ignored and stepped on and we have to make accomodations for OW and OC??? I think not.<P>Daycare: It is incredible than when it's convenient for OW, then you can see OC...but when YOU suggest something, it's out of the question. How long is your H going to allow these silly manipulations??? Doesn't he feel like a chump letting her mandate this whole scenario? How satisfying for her to be calling the shots. There are ways to stop this.<P>Audrey: Like I've said, I will never win the lottery, but I'd get on the wrong plane. And in this case, I am sure the DNA will simply confirm what I've believed all along. With the million to one shot that it isn't my H's, I would be grateful and joyful forever. As far as learning things and gaining strength through all these trials and tribulations over the past year, thanks anyway, I was already strong enough. I will NEVER be grateful for anything from this as long as I live.<BR>It's funny, since the birth of OC, I have been less troubled than while she was pregnant. I couldn't stand the thought of my H's child growing inside her when it should have been me. It was too intimate. I'm glad she had a girl because men often have this thing with "their son" and I don't care how that sounds. So what. This forum is for us to say how we really think and feel, right??? Then we can be nice to the H at home and try to rebuild our marraiges. My H would be horrified at what I write on this forum. He would be amazed at how I really think and feel. It would scare him.