I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

About 5 years ago I started to realize that our marriage was having trouble. We had been married about 8 years at the time with 2 kids and things just didn't feel right. I asked my W to go to counseling but she didn't see any problems that needed counseling.

Fast forward about 5 months and I made the huge mistake of having an affair. Things spiraled out of control and I basically shut my wife out. Moved out, planned separate life. Looking back I don't understand what the he!! I was thinking. I still feel like the biggest jerk in the world. About 3 months into the affair I decided to try to move back home. I was accepted and we tried to move forward. Unfortunately we never directly dealt with the affair. Just tried to make it go away and I became distant and withdrawn because I was so ashamed of what I had done.

So we coexisted the last 4 years. Not very many good times but we stayed together. I found out about a few weeks ago my wife is having an EA with a guy she met while with a group of friends. She says she loves him and has incredibly strong feelings for him. She has told me she hasn't contacted him since I discovered him but I have doubts (she travels a lot with her job so I don't know who she talks to or what she does while out of town).

I finally acknowledged the hurt and pain I inflicted on her (I began doing this before I found out about the OM). I apologized for the things I did and have told her I want to make the marriage work so she will be happy and not feel the need to search for happiness elsewhere. Her reaction is that I should have been doing these things in the past and it is too late. She hasn't left yet but she isn't willing to work on improving the marriage. She won't let me touch her, is very short when having conversations, etc.

I am trying to do all the things I'm supposed to be doing and being as patient as possible. She continues to say she doesn't love me. I tell her that she feels that way now but she will have feelings for me if she ever decides to make the effort to work on the marriage. She seems convinced she will be happy if she gets a divorce (I think because she has divorced friends and they tell her how happy they are). I have tried to do things to show her I can change and she, the kids and myself will all be much better off if we can work on things. I wonder if it is the romantic love she feels for OM that is preventing her from trying to reconnect.

She has agreed to seeing a counselor with me this week but I feel like she is doing it so she will be able to tell people she tried everything to save the marriage. Reality is she isn't doing anything to improve things. Any advice on how I can start to have her attitude change from divorce at all costs to making the marriage work?

Welcome to marriagebuilders. I'm glad that you found us. Your marriage is in a lot of trouble, and I suggest that you scrape some money together and make a counseling appointment by phone with the Harleys. They will cut to the chase and have a wonderful way of talking to a WW.

You are taking a chance going to a regular marriage counselor, because most are not that good.

In the meantime, you can start Plan A, which is showing her what a great husband you can be, not just talking about it. You can expose her affair to your family and hers, your friends, and your kids.

If she works with the other man, she must quit. Also if the other man is married, you need to expose to his wife.

Thanks. OM is divorced. I have told WW sister and she has tried to convince her to work on things. Since then she has avoided talking to her sister. I've told our neighbors that we are close to and she has also shut them out.

OM lives in a different city over 200 miles away but it is one of the cities she travels to once every 5-6 weeks.

I'll check into a phone consult with the Harley's.

Thanks.

And you know this how? One thing you'll figure out quickly around here is that WS lie. She could be lying to you to protect him or he could be lying to her to protect himself.

Start Plan A'ing her but in the meantime do whatever you can to get more intel on this OM (without telling her!).

WW told her sister this guy is divorced. His last marriage was with a divorced woman that had two kids. Didn't work out so well then. I'm not sure why he/she thinks it will work out this time. I understand that he may not be divorced. I checked his property records and he is listed alone as owning his home so that kind of confirms the story.

I'll continue Plan A and hope that she realizes I can give her the things she needs and that she doesn't have to destroy our family searching for happiness.

Is OM (other man) married?
Expose the A (affair) to:
Her parents
Your parents
OM's wife
Their employer (HR department and CEO, not just their immediate bosses)
Your pastor if you're religious

When you expose, do NOT warn her that you are going to do it. Just make up a list of people and their phone numbers and/or email addresses and go down the list, one by one. Keep it short and to the point: "WW (wayward wife) is having an A with OM. I am dedicated to saving and repairing my marriage and I'd appreciate your support of WW, me, and our M." If it's someone you respect, such as your parents and her parents, you can ask for their advice.

She will be furious. She will tell you she hates you, that she was wanting to reconcile but you've destroyed any chance of that, that she'll never trust you again, she's moving out, she's seeing a lawyer in the morning, and so on and so on. Just expect it and don't argue with her. Your mantra should be "I love you and I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage."

Under no circumstances should you allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, throwing, name calling, or sarcastic remarks. She'll try to goad you into a fight so she can tell herself what a monster you are and how right she is to want out of the marriage. Don't give her that ammo.

Her anger and outrage will be directed at you, because you shed the light of day on her affair. You took away the "special secret" aspect of it and showed it to be the tawdry thing it is. But the real source of her anger will be guilt. Just ride it out. "I love you and I'm committed to doing whatever it takes to save our marriage."

Your marriage can recover from her anger. Your marriage absolutely cannot recover while there is a third person in it. A rapid, all-out exposure is your single most effective tool for ending the affair (and you don't have many) so make the most of it. Act swiftly and with decisiveness, even though you're probably not feeling it right now.

I wouldn't believe it. I also wouldn't have sex with her w/o protection.

Keep an eye on her cellphone, her phone records, put a key logger on the computer. Put a voice activated recorder in the car. Don't tell her you're doing any of this and if you find evidence of ongoing contact or a physical affair, just keep the knowledge to yourself. Report it here and ask for advice on how to deal with it.

The Marriage Builders concepts work, but they are counter-intuitive. If you go with your gut you will almost certainly make serious strategic mistakes.

She's right. You should have been doing these things in the past.

That's because she's invested in OM. She's in a state of withdrawal from the marriage. She has no interest in improving the marriage right now. She's mentally checked out. Trying to get her to invest in the marriage right now is a waste of your time and energy and will only make her angry.

Doubtful. But we can fix that. Read on.

She wouldn't be doing this unless you were following her around saying "I love you" and "Let's work this out" non-stop. Don't be a love-sick puppy. Don't try to force her into reciprocating your love. Drop the relationship stuff for now. You'll only make her angry and you have more important stuff to be working on right now.

That's pretty arrogant and rude of you, don't you think? Who are you to tell her how she feels, why she feels, and how long she'll feel that way? Cease and desist trying to educate her.

Don't waste your time. While she's in the affair counseling is a waste of everyone's time and your money. Furthermore, counselor's have an 85% failure rate when it comes to saving marriages. And you're right, she just wants to go a couple of times so she can say "I tried, it didn't work."

Read what you wrote, then read it again.
Why are you so focused on changing her?
You can't change anyone but yourself.

Read it again. That's an extremely selfish thing you just wrote, do you see it? What happened to "How can I be the husband she deserves?" "How can I make our marriage a safe and inviting place for her to be?"

I'm serious. Read that, and think about it. Then think about how selfish you are in the rest of your marriage. How much of it is about you, and getting what you want out of it? How often do you put her feelings, needs, and well-being first?

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Now, the first thing you're going to do is EXPOSE.

The second thing you're going to do is read up on Love Busters and Emotional Needs (links in my signature). And keep posting here.

See if she will talk to the Harleys since this seems to be kind of a one shot thing.

It is expensive, but they are experts and will quickly get to the affair. Many counselors don't know much about adultery.

Should I just refrain from even telling her I love her? I hate to go to sleep without at least telling her that.

Your points are valid. I realize I need to change and cannot change her.

Drop the relationship talk and I love yous for now. It will just annoy her.

I understand on one level and am confused on another. One of the problems was I didn't express my feelings. I need to change that. I see that now is not the time to do that but how will I know when to start telling her how much she means to me?

Another question - I was looking on the website and saw the DVD workshop His Needs, Her Needs Habits for a Lifetime of Passion
(A 12 Lesson Course). When would it be appropriate to suggest something like this or is it something that would benefit me if I work through the course alone?

Now is definitely NOT the time to suggest any marriage building or relationship work to her. I'm not familiar with the course so I can't tell you if it will do you (by yourself) any good or not.

Did you expose?
Did you read about ENs?
Did you read about LBs?

There's more to do but you have to do those things first.

I have exposed to her family and my family. I left a message with her best friend to call me back. She is turning to her friends for advice more than her family so I want to make sure they have the full story.

Hopefully this will not cause her to leave but I don't know what else to do. This seems like it will be a huge LB when her friend calls her and tells her I called.

When her family calls to talk to her she just shuts down and won't communicate with them. I guess one of my next steps will be to call an attorney and try to figure out what will happen with the kids if she does file.