I've noticed a bit of a trend in posts here and at other infidelity forums, where either the WS or the BS refers to certain affairs as "EA only". Yet when pressed, it seems these affairs often include heavy flirtations with sexual innuendo, a lot of discussions about sex, and even cyber-sex. I've even seen WS or BS try to pass off a relationship which included kissing and snuggling as an EA.

It's almost as if anything short of intercourse is "just an EA".
Now let me quickly say, even if it IS truly an EA, I still believe it is terribly wrong, and is adulterous. However, to me it seems to me an attempt to minimize the painfulness of a PA, to relegate everything else to some other level.

IMO a true "EA only" would be something along the lines of being "best friends" with a member of the opposite gender, of opening up to them emotionally, of sharing non-sexual secrets, of having an inordinate fondness for the OP, of spending time or resources on the OP, which of course belongs to the spouse only. All these are hugely detrimental to a marriage, and as Dr. Harley teaches should be treated much the same as any other adultery.

However, most PA also include an element of EA too (unless it's with a prostitute) so I can see how it would often be much more entangled to break free, when the emotional and physcial elements are all there.

I guess I'm just wondering if in many cases, healing isn't slowed down when extraordinary precautions are not put into place as carefully for a supposed EA.
Although most EA are probably a PA waiting to happen, for many BS there is still a line that is much harder to accept, once it is crossed. I think most people would be hurt and angry to find WS had been having coffee and bike rides with OP, but most likely even MORE hurt to find they'd shared coffee, bike rides, and sexual discussions.

I am wondering also, do men and women have different opinions as to what constitutes EA or PA?

Do you agree or disagree with my definitions?

Well I think a PA includes almost any physical contact - not a handshake but sexual in nature. Cyber Sex would also be included IMO.

Old fashion, their has to be contact. Cyber don't count. It's as if one was alone, used their imagination and took matter's into their own hands.

Disagree but that doesn't matter. The use of Webcams and the like.

One criteria for PA would be any contact with another person resulting in orgasm. Contact being visual, auditory, tactile and etc.

NJ

JMO but orgasm optional.

BK,

OK, how about adding the criteria any contact which could result in the transmission of an STD.

Possibly more compact, any mucus membrane to mucus membrane contact.

Would a back rub count? Foot massage?

NJ

Yes but you said this......


So which do you mean?

Back rubs, footrubs etc? Yes I'd consider that a PA if the intent is sexual. Same as people using web cams in a sexual way. Kissing. Hugging etc - ALL PA in my opinion.

I would count anything of a sexual nature, whether cyber or in person. That would even be hand-holding (good grief, how long do some of these people think just hand-holding went on, anyway???) or anything else intended to arouse or be intimate. (Not just orgasm, IMO also.)

bigK

There's no touching of or from other's. Just as if looking at playboy mag.

True but my opinion is it's still a PA. Shared intimacy, sexual gratification. It's a PA IMO.

I agree Neak.

EA or PA, all affairs damage the marriage. It doesn't require any kind of physical contact and in today's Internet world, no personal contact other than through a chat room or email in order for things to reach the point of being clearly adulterous.

How many have "fallen in love" with someone they never actually met or talked to? How many men have given up their wives for some fantasy woman that doesn't really exist? How many women have told their husbands they wanted a divorce over some guy that flirted with her on FaceBook?

About a year ago was a case in the news about a 40 something guy who was murdered by a 20 something rival over a 19 year old girl who turned out to be a 50 something housewife using her daughter's pictures to lure men into online affairs. She never met either man, but hadn't counted on the two of them ending up in the same town.

I think it was CBS that aired a story about a man who killed his wife because she was having a cyber affair with a guy on the other side of the country. The wife and this man fell in love, agreed to both divorce and get together to pursue marriage. The first snag came when the guy's wife went into depression when she found out that her online fantasy man was in fact a 4oish woman who had recently gone through a divorce because her husband cheated on her. The addiction was so strong that the woman sulked for days and then announced that even knowing the truth about her online lover she still wanted a divorce to pursue the relationship.

Her husband killed her with a gun that took police several years to trace back to him.

I don't think there needs to be so much of a distinction between EA and PA. Saying my wife left me because she ONLY had an EA is no better than saying she left me because she met some guy with a big one... (check book that is) :RollieEyes:

JMO.

Mark

I completely agree Mark. The OP was asking about defining the difference between the 2 though. You won't get any disagreement from me over the damage! In fact, for a man in an affair, it's the emotional attachment that potentially will cause the most damage as their wife finds the ILY's to an OW harder to overcome.

I will give my 0.2c as an FWW.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between an EA and a PA. An EA is not "being friends" with someone of the opposite sex. An EA is an emotionally charged, just as dangerous, just as adulterous beast as a PA.

My A was an "EA" for three months. In other words there were meetings, a kiss goodbye and no further touching. I was having an A, no doubt about it. I was having a full blown A the first time I agreed to meet the OM for lunch. The time I spent thinking about the OM and the total withdrawal from my marriage (not physically) during that time was exactly the same as when the PA started. The PA lasted for six months - SF happened 10x but there were many instances of "serious touching" during those six months. Then it became an EA for a further 6 months. Not even a hand hold. During that "EA" time I was completely and utterly gone from my marriage. It made no difference that there was no touching - I was emotionally gone.

Cyber is the same. It is an A. It is an out and out A (or relationship if the people are single). I know people from another board who met online and now have very good relationships. (BTW they were divorced people). Their relationships became "real" relationships, even when they had only met online.

I mostly agree. Perhaps it is easier for a BS to recover from an EA versus a PA. But basically, I think it really is moot because EAs go to PAs in about the same amount of time it takes a Porsche to hit 200 kph on the German autobahn.

AM

Honestly I think the only significance is that a WS will (attempt to) use it as an excuse or justification (eg. nothing actually happened). It's just a way to make it not sound as bad. But I disagree that an EA is easier to recover from than a PA. If he had just had sex, I could have dealt with it. It would have upset me for sure, but I could have got past that. But telling another woman how much he loved her, thinking about her in ways he should have been thinking of me, and that emotional intimacy that was supposed to be mine - THAT'S harder to get past. Especially when he was still in the house and I knew he was counting the minutes until he could escape. But I could be different since I'm a woman.

Sometimes it is easy to make black and white decisions. Sometimes not. What is important and as other's have said, If you wouldn't act that way with the opposite sex in front of your spouse then it's wrong and you shouldn't do it.

EA, PA, which is worse? I've seen WS's wanting, willing, and trying to divorce their spouse over just an EA. Divorce is still divorce. For some if able to recover their marriage convince themselves and find solace that at least it didn't get physical.

Then those that console themselves according to which group that they fit in. That the AP's only kissed, they only used their hands, they only used their mouth's, they only did "it" one time, they only did "it" two times, the affair only went on for month, six months, a year, two years, five years, ten years.

It's as saying one got into a fight and half his teeth got knocked out. Or he keep half of his teeth from being knocked out. Either way half of his teeth are gone.

I have heard here on MB that the above quote from Tabby is typical for BWs, the EA part, (i know it is for me anyway), but for the typical BHs it is the PA part that is harder to get past.

I think as far as it being an AFFAIR, i agree that if you are doing or saying something to ANYONE in ANY way that you would not do or say in front of your spouse then it is an AFFAIR period, the EA/PA part does not really matter at this point.

ITA.

After I confessed I tried to justify and make it seem like my A wasn't so bad since FOM and I never had sex. My DH use to tell me "Honey, it's not what you didn't do that hurts, it's what you did do."

With there now being internet affairs and cyber sex, IMO the words PA and a sexual affair (SA) can be interchanged.

ETA my definition: IMO, anything that makes someone sexually aroused because of a second person is an PA. Cyber sex is a PA in my book as is holding hands.

And in all reality aren't they ALL considered extra marital affairs anyway and we are just getting into semantics?

LC