Neak, I wasn't defending zora's relationship, and I believe she admitted herself it was just a temporary feel-good fling that she got rid of because she saw it for what it was. I just got tired of all the people here holding SW's hand and saying what a horrible wife he had, for her to go jumping in the sack the first chance she got (a year later). She doesn't deserve that. SW himself admits that.

As has been said, she decided months and months ago that she did not want to pursue recovery, and took legal steps to reach that conclusion, and it wasn't until she actually moved SW out of the house that he woke up and realized what he should have been fighting for all along. The other guy - which occurred within a one-week period in September - had nothing to do with the nearly year-long decision of hers to leave SW after dealing with his hurtful actions.

Anyway, SW, I wish you well. I can see that, as terribly as this has turned out, the benefit for you is that you now see what to do right with your life and your next wife - even if it turns out to be zora - will be a lucky woman.

catperson

"SW, I'm not trying to rake you through the coals on this. I'm trying to point out (to everyone else, not you), that giving her a Scarlet Letter hardly takes into account what was really going on."

Does not matter what you want to call his wife's relationship.
She was and still is married and should of not dated because she was not divorced. There is no way around this fact.

Would zora be receptive to recover if there was no OM? Don't know. But I do know that it is not helping now. There being a OM in the wings is not helpful.

As to jugement. Silverwind has to learn how to pick friends. His friend made moves as soon as he learned Zora vunerable to advances. What kind of friend is that?

Then Zora has to be called on not just for dating while married, but knowing that her WH's friend to do what he did only showed him to not be one of high ethics. Yet she goes and dates him any way.

Road - I agree.

She had dinner with him twice. One ended up in sex. AFTER proceeding to leave and divorce SW at least 6 months earlier. She had not been in a relationship with her husband for years. And she called off any relations with this person after that 2nd evening.

After years of dealing with a husband who not only continued affairs, but did it by abandoning her for weekends at a time to do it, throwing it in her face. And who ONLY tried to meet her needs after she kicked him out, and he realized he wasn't going to get to continue cake-eating.

AS I SAID, what she did was stupid. But it in no way compares to what SW did.

Obviously not, since she had been through with him for at least 6 months according to her own writings here, if not longer. There was no wavering there. From March 2008 on, all she said - all she said - was that she was through getting hurt by him. She had no feelings left for him. She couldn't even imagine staying with him. There was no questioning in her posts this whole year. I hardly see that as wavering. She was fed up and done.

Sorry to TJ, SW.

I have a very different opinion, but it's pointless to argue my POV.

SW, you know what you need to do no matter what. Carry on the good fight, and leave the results with God.

Unbelievable.

I would like to know how this qualifies as harrasing someone. And how this is blowing up at them for going away. I actually have showed concern for her trip and wished her nothing but the best. I have talked to her about her trip, asked her her plans etc... NEVER once did I do anything to make her feel guilty about going. I said I wished I was going with her! That really hurts that she sais I am making her feel guilty about going.

And the dogs I think she should feel guilty about giving them up. I love them, but its going to be hard for me to live having to care for 2 dogs full time. I will gladly do it as I love them and they mean the world to me, but to go anywhere or do anything will be very difficult. But they are worth it, I dont mind sacrificing for them. But she is putting alot of me when they are are dogs.

This is EVERY email I have sent over the past 8 days. With a few exceptions that were just things I need from the house.


------------
I don’t think it looks bad, though I do like it better the way you have Ahmad do it, the natural brown with lighter highlights.

But it certainly does not look bad like you think, just different.

Anyways, ill give you a call later. Hope you had fun last night at your dinner party.

Love,
SW
----------------
You look beautiful in those pics; I like the blue dress on face book. You really did look stunning. I really wish I could have been there with you and your friends for the wedding and post wedding festivities. I would give anything just to put my arms around you and dance with you again.

I am sorry we are both going this awful situation; I know neither of us wanted this. Things just got so bad and we did not know what to do.

Give me a call later if you feel like it, I love talking to you. I miss that more than anything, just talking about our day.

I love you,

SW
-------------
Nope. Not gotten any mail for you in a while.

Did you get my other email? Sorry if that was too much, but I want you to know how I feel, and how sorry I am.

I hope you do call me later, that’s what I miss most. Just talking.

The dude says hello, we chillin today watching some football.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:03 PM
To:
Subject:

Did you recieve the statement for car insurance? I was wondering because I didn't get a bill.



Thanks,

Zora
------------------------

I would like to take you out to dinner tomorrow, if you don’t have plans that is. Would that be ok? It can be a late dinner; I would need to feed the dogs beforehand anyways. I’m thinking maybe British Beer Company or perhaps Siam Lotus.

SW
------------------------

And this was after out heated discussion last night.


How you can be so cruel to me, after everything we have been through. Maybe you are not the person I think you really are. I still love you with everything I am, and believe in what we can be. I wish you would see that too, because it can be something really special. I know the kind of person I am, and I know you kind of person you are inside. We just never gave an inch to each other. We pushed each other away instead of brought each other closer.



How you can want to give the dogs up is really beyond me. I love them like my children. I would die for them just as I would for you. They will be loved with me, you can be sure of that; I will sacrifice for them as I have done since the day we got them. You can live your life without the burden of having to care for them. They will not be neglected. I don’t consider them a burden, they are part of my family as much as you are or my parents are.



Don’t worry about me giving them to you parents; I will take them to my parents. I don’t want to inconvenience you or your parents.



Have a good trip; I hope you have a good time and a fruitful work trip.



I love you,

------------------

Do these seem like harrasing emails? Do these seem like I am making her feel guilty for going away?

I actually sent her a gift to be delivered at work today with this as the card...

HAVE A GREAT TRIP TO INDIA AND UAE. PLEASE BE SAFE AND KNOW I WILL BE THINKING OF YOU OFTEN. I HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU, EVEN IF ITS THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT HERE. I MISS YOU WHOLE BIG BUNCH. LOVE, SW..

------------------------

I do have a lot of anger right now. Everyone I know, save one person, thinks I am crazy for trying to fight for my marriage. They dont understand what I am fighting for. They say me using cover up on scratches in order to go to work, they saw what her trip to italy and the lies there did to me. Its comming at me from all sides. Yes I had an affair, but she did everything in her power to push me away for a long long time. Its no excuse, but I did not have an affair just because I could. It took her pushing me as far away as I think is possible. I stayed with her through the worst time of her life, and actually did not sleep many nights because she was too drunk and I was so worried she would stop breathing. I ran to her every time she called.

I thank god I got on Anti D's and Anxiety meds, or else I would have taken a long swim into the ocean by now.

But seriously, do those emails seem harrasing to you?

Yes.

She has asked you to leave her alone. She has every right to have her space, and she has that right because you ABUSED her. Your infidelity was an emotional abuse. She gave up on you long ago.

As for the guilting her over the dogs. Stop that! You know she is having a hard time doing this. But, she has no choice to, because you won't let her share custody of them, without holding them over her head. They are not a pawn, so stop trying to use them as one.

I have been quiet for a long time while reading your posts. Enough is enough though. Start flaming me people. I am tired and grouchy, but I can still take it.

That is just not true. She never needs to see me to share the dogs. We have a mutual friend who handles the pick and delivery.

We abused each other, I dont know if you know the whole story but I did not run out and have an affair. There was MUCH abuse on her part and for a long time before my affair. This is not a one way street.

And I have given her her space, I agreed to her divorce and she will get it the easy way. But I will not roll over and play dead. I dont force her to do anything, I ask her to do things. Its her choice if she does them or not. I have not tried to force her to do anything nor made her feel guilty for her trip.

Do you really want an answer? Because by reading your responses to the first feedback here, you went all defensive - this is Old Silverwind back in full force, not teachable, not really wanting input but seeking validation to continue pursuing as you've been accused of pursuing...

So - were all the changes I've seen in you smoke? Or are you truly growing up, and this is a slip back into an old unwanted haibt?

If you have agreed to give her space, then why have you emailed her 4 or 5 times since Saturday, all about different subjects?

You are now trying to guilt her over the dogs, as stated in your own email, in your own post here. She made a decision, and you need to abide by it.

I am not sure what you are trying to play here. Your emails CAN be deemed harassing. I would feel that way and do not blame her in the least for her feelings.

Just my opinion.

I cannot accept all the blame for where we are, that is not being true to myself. I have to defend myself. I dont think my emails were harrasing in the least.

If telling someone you love them, and how good they look is harrasing, I wish someone would harras me.

Bottling up my feeling and not saying what I believe and feel is a big part of the reason we are here today. That is not a healthy way to deal with feelings.

I have grown, at first I was very defensive about everything, and then I took full blame for everything. Neither is the truth. I take 100 percent of the blame for having an affair but one thing you do learn here is the reasons why it happened.

Accused of pursuing my wife? Guilty as charged. Thats why people come here. Im sorry if you dont believe I have made changes because I have. 6 weeks ago I would have gotten plowed after that call, this time I called my parents and they calmed me down. 6 weeks ago that would have been an all out brawl, not just a difficult conversation like it was last night.

Thats over the past 8 days not sincde saturday.

Those dogs are OUR dogs, and it will be a hardship on me to care for them full time, work, and try do get out and actually have a life outside of them. Again, I have to take care of myself, and that is going to be very difficult to go anywhere or do anything being where I live and will be working before too long.

Like I said, i wish someone would harras me like that. Sorry if you think telling someone they look good qualifies as harassing. I do not.

No, accused of pursuing the woman who is divorcing you. She has made clear her intentions, and as I have read over and over here, she has every right to walk away from this marriage.


She has stated she doesn't want to communicate with you, yet you persist. That is harassment. Especially when it results in anxiety attacks.

Enough said.

Then I guess when I said the Marriage was over and she pursued me it was harrasment? Does that make my Affair ok because I was done? No it does not. It was, and is, wrong.

It really does not matter anymore, I am not sure I even can fight any longer. The things she did to me for years when I was fighting so hard, the nasty comments, the coldness, etc are all back. My self esteen is in the porta porty once again. The only difference this time is I am not drunk 24 / 7 wondering why she is being like this. Thats why I gave up in the first place. I know inside the beautiful person she is, but this person who pushes so hard against someone trying to care about them is not the person I want to be with. Its what made me so depressed so long ago and I refuse to let that happen to me again.

This is too unhealthy for me. I did horrible things, but I am not a horrible person. I fought for us for a long time, a very long time. Maybe I did not know the correct ways to fight, but I gave it all I had. I dont deserve the horrible things she now says to me.

I dont understand.

[quote=catperson

She has stated she doesn't want to communicate with you, yet you persist. That is harassment. Especially when it results in anxiety attacks.

[/quote]

She did not say that. She said you can call whenever you want, if I dont want to pick up I wont. She never once said dont communicate. But she does not need to worry anymore.

You're back to being defensive.

I disagree. At first I was defensive about her refusing to give me a chance and not being willing because of the things she had done to me.

Now I am defending myself and what I believe in.

That is the difference.

I have not tried to get her to come back to me, I have not tried to force her into anything. I have tried to show her how much I care in gentle ways.

When you ask for our feedback on the emails, then respond with defensiveness, you are back to ground zero on your progress. Now you defend that you're not defensive?

Do you want our feedback or not? Do you want our help or not?