So as not to threadjack another poster's thread, I decided to start this one.

"First, I am copying something I read on MSN -

If you don’t have much desire for sex, but aren’t bothered by your lack of desire, do you have a medical problem? A new study, published Friday in the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology, is adding fuel to this long-running debate and raising some important questions that may spark discussions between lovers.

In a survey of 31,581 women across the U.S. ages 18 to 102, 44 percent reported having sexual problems, the most common being low desire for sex. The findings mirrored those of many other surveys — but what sets this one apart is that of those women reporting sexual problems, only 12 percent say they are are actually bothered by it.

The report's lead author, Dr. Jan L. Shifren of Massachusetts General Hospital, says “the reason the study is important is that we read about 30 or 40 percent us — women — experience sexual problems and we confirm that, yes, about 30 percent of women may note low desire, or orgasmic response, but when you ask if it is a distressing problem, that is a much lower percentage of women"

Women's sexuality is such a complicated subject. I think that many women trade sex for something else that they desire.

And I think most men never trade sex for something they want.

The only trade I did was my life to ask for sex all the time. Husband never wanted it and it drove me nuts and started the cycle of me withdrawing. Then he goes and gets it somewhere else.

I think that is what crushed me the most. I would have NEVER turned him down.

Wow, Queenie, that would be hard to take. I always had SF with my ex, and sometimes I didn't really want to.

But in my long life, I HAVE traded the promise of sex for other things I wanted. I learned very young the power of sex. Probably not very healthy, but it is what it is.

I was always upset when I found I had no sexual desire for my husband, because I knew where part of it was coming from. Resentment.

I wonder if these women who claim that it doesn't bother them have just grown complacent. If they could realize that their husbands/boyfriends might cheat on them, and get a taste of what that would REALLY feel like, would they change their tune? I know I would have, knowing how painful it is to lose almost all sense of self when Dday occurs.

Also, maybe these women do not equate sex and love, as I do, and can compartmentalize this facet of their relationship. I'm just not like that.

The women are probably not "bothered" by it because they don't know any different.....

Think about it....if you have never desired or crave chocolate, do you think you would want it more?????? or better yet place this into one of your own top EN'S.....I would be HIGHLY upset if I were craving and desiring conversation, yet that need wasn't getting meet.....

The sad part is, that the women that aren't "bothered" by it do not realize what a dangerous place they are putting their M or relationships in.....

Now, I am a firm believer that most of those women suffer from a hormonal imbalance. Something that can be easily rememdied and be done naturally. Sad to say that many Dr., INCLUDING OBGYN's do not regularly screen for these imbalances and even sadder is that the women who are not "bothered" by their lack of sex drive don't know any better to ask for the screening.....


not2fun

Ps...BTW girls.... ....to you all....SL, how are things going with you???? Queenie, maybe your problem isn't an testosterone deficiency but an over-abundance...have you ever had your thyroid checked???...love ya all

This may be a ladies only thread, so I apologize if I am intruding.


IMHO, it's not a medical problem, its an "effort" problem. As illustrated by this.


I only conclude this because of what I have observed. Very few prospective wives or newlywed wives seem to suffer from this lack of desire. There seems to be a pattern where this lack of desire only occurs after the man has committed to being with the woman. And this pattern seems to repeat not according to any health condition or age of the woman, but rather with circumstance. Meaning women who re-marry or re-enter the dating scene appear to regain their desire without any medical intervention at all. A fact far too many BH's are well aware of.

The popular rebuttals to that statement usually takes 1 of 2 forms.

The first being that while they "appeared" to regain their desire, they really didn't. They were just doing it to get some other need met. On this, who really knows. I suppose I can believe this or believe this is the case sometimes. But IMHO, it still opens up the question of why a woman chooses to put forth the effot to overcome low sexual desire in some cases, but not others. And it still doesn't seem to be a medical problem.

The second being to conclude that their husbands are unskilled lovers or unromantic. Maybe this is the case with some men. But I imagine, some of this has to do with the women's perception. Any man who has been placed in the "just friends" category by a woman, knows how herculean a task it is to overcome perceptions. What you actually do is generally meaningless, as its effect is a function of the women's perception. Said another way, once a woman concludes she has low sexual desire, no effort on the husband's part is going to cause any change. She has to make the "effort" to reconsider that conclusion. Which they typically do, in an A or their next relationship.

FWIW, with respect to affection or conversation, I think men typically have the same "effort" problem. The same dynamics seem to occur. I imagine if you surveyed a bunch of men and asked them if they have a problem with showing affection, many would respond with yes, and if you asked them if they were distressed about it, they would say no.

Someone posted about complacency. I think that's the big part of this. Because what I think is tragic about these situations, is that a happy marriage probably does not require a solution to a low sex drive problem. I think most men would be able to accept it, if they knew their wives actually cared about it and were trying to solve it. Based on that survey, I doubt that is going to happen.

Well for me I did/do have a medical problem that causes my “low libido”. I had a lot of female problems when I was younger and I had a complete hysterectomy at age 31. One of the side effects of this is/can be a “low libido”. However the suggested things to try have very bad side effects.

But I do have to say that it does not bother me that I have a “low libido” so that would suggest the study is correct.

rprynne-very interesting thoughts on the fact that women who divorced or affaired do indeed enter back into the sex scene with om. That is my exact question in the emotional needs thread "sf not an en for some??". I can not figure out why I would be sexually attracted to another man (my chiropractor for example) but not my husband. Well, from reading on MB I realize it must be from the newness chemicals that are released when you are in a new relationship, that generally stop being released after years with the same person (unless you do risky=frisky to keep things alive and well). Mm...I'm figuring things out. Dh has scheduled sex for tonight and I am really trying to get my mind and body to look forward to it. I think I have figured out that my problem is that after 1 year of being with someone, the sexual desire for me wore off somewhat. And I then assumed something was wrong. I thougth I was forever suppose to look at my sign. other and be ready to go. Now, I think I have learned that sexual desire is not entirely just about the other person turning you on. It is more about figuring out how to create thatneed within myself and then having dh satisfy that need. No??? Any thoughts on that??

David Schnarch in his book "Passionate Marriage" has touched on some of the reasons that women lose desire. It turns out that they can get it back.

I'm very interested in this subject because it seems so universal. Dr. Laura, in her book "The Proper Care and Feeding of
Husbands" has touched on the problem. She asks women what they would do if hubby suddenly announced that he was no longer into working to support the family. But she doesn't give any advice on how to overcome the problem.

Hence, the oldest profession known to man.



BTDT. That is probably the hardest part of all of this for me. The number of times my WW was not 'in the mood' or blah blah blah, yet 6 hours with OM and she is. WTF?

She may not, but the Harley's do. Being open and honest would be a first step. In this case, talking to your spouse or S/O about your lack of passion and your desire to regain it with them, seeking ways together in how to regain your momentum. Of course, many times, the spouses approached about this subject are prickly and become angry when faced with your reality. I believe this is what keeps most spouses at bay, when it comes to discussing the problems in the marriage--conflict avoidance and fear.

Sometimes, women lose their desire for SF because their husbands are selfish and inconsiderate lovers; hence, SF becomes just one more chore to get done. I could give you examples, but it might be TMI.

The test survey included ages 18- 102?! Well bless her heart if at 100 yrs old any woman still wants to get it on lol. Unfortunately I think too many women punish their spouses by withdrawing sex or think that if their Hs really loved them then he should understand that she just doesn't want too no matter how long her mood lasts.

Actually, I think your male viewpoint is both interesting and extremely valid.

I don't think it's this cut and dried. Lack of desire is similar to lack of hunger. If you aren't hungry, you don't eat or think about food. It doesn't bother you, because you are NOT feeling a need for anything. It's simply not in the forefront of your mind. So why go to any effort to fix something that isn't broke? Unfortunately, I think many women don't fully understand how important SF may be to their H's. For example, even if they aren't hungry, they will still consider their spouse's needs in this regard. But not necessarily SF. In fact, I don't think I truly understood this myself before reading here at MB and I'm sure I was very guilty of not making the effort.

This is most likely brain chemistry at work.

On a subconscious level this is probably somewhat true. At the beginning of a relationship, both partners are more attentive, affection etc., and likely she is getting other ENs met. But I don't think she is putting any conscious "effort" into her personal sexual desire necessarily. It is heightened because of the combination of brain chemistry and these other ENs. (disclaimer: I do realize some women do consciously use sex to get what they want but considering they would make bad spouses anyway, I'm keeping this discussion to regular women who in all other ways make great wives).

The second being to conclude that their husbands are unskilled lovers or unromantic. Maybe this is the case with some men. But I imagine, some of this has to do with the women's perception. Any man who has been placed in the "just friends" category by a woman, knows how herculean a task it is to overcome perceptions. What you actually do is generally meaningless, as its effect is a function of the women's perception. Said another way, once a woman concludes she has low sexual desire, no effort on the husband's part is going to cause any change. She has to make the "effort" to reconsider that conclusion. Which they typically do, in an A or their next relationship. [/quote]This is probably true on occassion but I doubt it is as common as the excuse is used. Also, I suspect most husbands would actually aspire to be great lovers, if they only knew what their W's wanted to begin with. The W has the responsibility of communicating with her H to let him know what she likes. That said, my WstbxH was the least romantic person I have ever met in my life, something which I discussed with him repeatedly to no avail. He simply didn't want anything more than wham, bam, thank you mamm SF so perhaps we fell into this category a bit there.

I agree. I also think that they also don't fully understand the importance of these ENs to their spouse, in the same way women with low desire don't understand their H's need for SF.

At least someone did a survey and it's a start. I know for myself, if I ever get into another LTR (I won't remarry) I will never take SF (or any other EN) for granted again.

Whew. Didn't want to get yelled at.


Nothing ever is. LOL


I think your analogy is fair. It also sounds like you are making a similar connection with regards to effort, but adding that the lack of "effort" is partially due to a lack of understanding of the importance of the topic to healthy relationships.


I don't deny that some brain chemistry is at work. But brain chemistry is a funny thing. People routinely "alter" both their response to brain chemistry and their actual brain chemistry. And they do it without medicine. Soldiers are trained to overcome fear and panic (and the resultant brain chemistry associated with those states), risk takers change their dopamine levels. Visualization, self talk, etc, all cause changes in brain chemistry.


I understand. Just like I realize there are actual medical causes for low desire, I do realize that some men aren't romantic. My point about perception is some men are romantic and the woman does not "see" this. My favorite example is in giving a woman flowers.

Assume the woman likes flowers and a dozen roses show up out of the blue at her desk at work. Her initial thoughts, her response to the flowers is a function of who sent them. They came from her father or brother, the response is how thoughtful, they came from a female co-worker, the response how sweet and kind, they came from a "secret admirer", how romantic. Unfortunately, for many men, after several years of M, when the flowers come from the husband, the response is something like "what did he do wrong."

Additionally, what I find interesting is how much the perception alters the brain chemistry.


Fair enough. I guess my intrepretation of the survey was that it was going to further the concept of saying "hey, no worries, many women have low sex drive, and they aren't concerned about it, so neither should you."

This strikes a nerve with me b/c all BS have heard the "just friends" line. I guess if it is the true "just frineds" (i could never have sex with you b/c you are not my type) category, only the person knows that as opposed to the "just friends" so it makes my affair OK. I look at Needs as trying to please your partner. Maybe I don't want to work, but I sure as he77 don't want to live in a cardboard box. Maybe I do not want to help with dishes, but I do want to try to please my wife. I think this is what you are talking about. If the woman knows it is important, she can make a conscious effort to meet the need.

H&S - That was my comment. Sorry it struck a nerve. I meant it in the single guy who wants to be more than friends with a women context, not the WS BS about the A context.

Exactly.

This is true, but I don't think (at least I hope not) that WS's make a conscious effort to alter their brain chemistry - nor a conscious effort NOT to.

There is more truth to this than you think. What about the creepy guy that sends the woman flowers. I can already feel my skin crawl. Regarding the husband doing something wrong, I have to admit that has crossed my mind in the past when WstbxH did something nice out of the blue - because it often was an attempt to soften me before he admitted to a blunder. A guy who's romantic will send flowers regardless.

Tabby commented on this, but I'd like to add my 2 cents-this perception on the wife's part is often partly her husband's fault. Too many men get into the habit of trying to "buy" their wife/gf's forgiveness with flowers or jewelry, often to the extent that the only time she may get flowers or any other gift is after he's done something (or not) that he thinks will make her mad.

After years of that, is it any wonder her response to getting flowers from her husband will be "What did he do now???"

That's why I personally think that buying flowers or any other gift to assuage a wife's anger is a universally BAD MOVE on the part of the husband. Buy them to celebrate her birthday, anniversary, Valentine's Day or just because, but NEVER after he's "messed up". If she's not going to accept a sincere apology, flowers or jewelry probably aren't gonna work either, IMHO.