How did you know he was still deep in the affair? How did you find that out?

So when and If he comes home then I will sit down with him and show him the list?

Here are my final conditions. Do they seem to much? I basically tried to address as much as possible so he can't come back and say well you didn't say that.

My conditions for recovery:

Letter to Toad, explaining that you will not communicate with her EVER again. No loopholes. No contact for the rest of your life stating something like you love me and your family and you intend to work on the marriage and want no contact with her for any reason for ever. Period. When you are finished with this letter it should be given to me so I may be sure its mailed.

Full and complete disclosure. Become completely honest. Our marriage will not survive further deception. I want to be able to ask as much as needed and then move on. No lies or hiding any part of truth, no covering, just the full and complete truth.

Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go no matter how far away you work. Remove your name from apartment lease and showing proof of it.

Read Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley and abide by the principals in the book. Be open to phone counseling with the Harley's and plan to attend a Marriage Builder Weekend by the Harley's.

Cut off all ties to any new friends or family you made by this Affair. No phone calls or emails to and from them. Remove all those #'s from your cell phones.

No discussion of the Toad.

Change Cell phone number and close down all emails and use the family email account and tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind. if contact is made and if you are honest about this, we will simply find a way to prevent it from happening again through more precautions.

Since she previously worked at your employer and everyone there knows, I would like the both of us to go into employer and explain our plans for recovery ask them to never again schedule you in Orange county and give you a new email address and cell phone #. Have the office or manager intercept all calls for your old email and cell phone.

Close secret email accounts that you started when communicating with her and give me access to your lap top and trade phones at anytime. Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible.

Close down personal bank account and use family bank account. All deposits will be made into joint bank account. I will pick up all checks and no finances in any form will be given to the toad.

Get rid of anything she has given you, cards, memorabilia, clothing, anything at all.

Accountability for time forever. This means phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Calling when late etc. Do whatever necessary to establish trust.

Well, that is a long list. I would settle for no contact, all of your questions answered, being an open book, and no nights away from home.

You don't want him to feel like he has this HUGE list to do and will be forever paying for his affair.

However, only you know what you need to consider taking him back.

I am worried no contact will no stick as when he came home for 2 weeks after discovery(before I found SAA) he said that he did check the email that she set up for him but he couldn't get in because she changed the password. And then sometime during that 2 weeks he drove down to where she was and apologized and started the affair again and lied to me for another month til I had him followed and pictures taken. Thats why I addressed shutting down all email accounts, changing the phone number and also talking with employer since she was a co-worker up until a month before I found out. she handled some of his scheduling.

He had also said during the 2 weeks he was home that he felt responsible for her and wanted to give her money and i said no way, so that's why I addressed the bank account thing.

I can try to scale down but some of I have already went through and don't want to deal with again.

The 1st discovery was tolerable, but finding out about the 2nd time and lying again was worse.

Yes, finding out about a second betrayal is a real drag.

In January, after my ex tried to move home, he came over on Sunday morning and wanted to get back together. He told me that he and OW were done. And I knew from her husband that OW had spent all day Saturday in bed crying.

So we went to church together, and my ex stood up in front of our congregation and confessed his affair and asked for prayers for our marriage. I was so happy.

Then we went out for breakfast, and discussed how to recover. Later that night, he was going to a men's group meeting at church for accountability.

I went to Walmart to get some things, and decided to drive by the home he was renting to get the address to be sure the OW got the NC letter. I was SHOCKED to see his truck and her car parked there.

I knocked on the door, and his roommate let me in when I asked to speak to my husband. The roommate pointed out his room upstairs and I went up and knocked on the door. It was around 5:30PM and was dark, and the room lights were off, and I heard the sounds of them having sex.

That was my last try at recovery.

I read your thread daily and you are doing an amazing plan A!

Your goal is to get WH to end the A and commit to recovering the marriage, but the list of conditions is really long and I think might scare him away. That list might make him think it would be too much work to come home.

I'm not saying that anything on your list shouldn't be part of recovery, I just don't think it should be presented to him all at once as soon as he wants to come home. I mean you could tell him about MB a few days after he comes homes and then suggest some phone counseling and then suggest a MB weekend.

You could also require NC but then verbally discuss the EP's needed to ensure NC.

Remember you have been reading and learning about MB for a while now, but your WH has not. It may take him some time to get on board with all that it takes to recover your marriage.

Be very careful of the Plan B letter getting too long. It needs to be a short and concise as possible, else he won't read it.

That they are to ONLY tell you things of an unemotional nature. i.e. "WH wants to pick the kids up at 4 instead of 6 on Friday". Nothing about "WH wants to do this because he won't be able to see them next weekend because he has to blah blah blah...".

And certainly not "WH sounds sincere to me" or "WH looks awful" or anything like that.

The info should be pared down to the very barest essential information that you absolutely HAVE to know. Everything else is filtered out.

So what will happen if he breaks one of these. Are you going to kick him out? I think this is waaayy too much detail for a newly returned WH. I understand what you listed and why and totally agree, but to lay all this on him at first (in this much detail) might be a mistake.

B,
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OM GOMGOMGOMGOMGOGMOMGOG


Ok I feel better now. Man oh Man. I am so sorry. You are amazing. all you've gone through but you still help others. IT is a ministry ya know. At least it is in my book.

Yeah it hurt the 2nd time worse so thats why i have so many conditions. Do you think I could maybe say here are my conditions and the reason they are so extensive is because of the 2nd time he lied. Maybe that could explain where he might understand?

The reason I mentioned the counseling thing in conditions is he has always said counseling is dumb we know more that them and don't pull dr. phil crap on me.

I think If I don't at least be open to some counseling he will never agree to it once he is home.

Ok I'll try to simplify. This brings a good point what if WH breaks something what do I do?

When he started the A he hid money that I found in his wallet and stopped letting me get checks under the guise of I'll be in the area. That's why added the bank account stuff.

He works in the entire southern california area randomly 6 days a week so they can even schedule him in the area where he lives with OW now, so that's why I added having employer not schedule him there. HE could end up inspecting right next door to her and since she is an ex employee she can call and email his work phone and email anytime she knows the numbers and addresses. Changing them is the only way I know would work.

So do you think I can make definite conditions and them add under that be open to these additonal conditions because of the 2nd time you lied and went back to her (before I found SAA)?

If hubby was a good husband before, chances are excellent that he will be again.

On the other hand, you will hold all of the cards when he wants to reconcile. Better to set the bar high.

But don't get ahead of yourself. If things work out like we want, he will most likely WANT to do what is necessary.

Perhaps have it happen in levels.

Level one would be talking to you directly about recovery. This could be achieved by:
1. Agreeing to NC, as a concept he is willing to follow.
2. Phone counselling with SH, one alone and one jointly with you.

Level two would be proceeding forward with recovery efforts. This could be achieved by:
1. Continuing counselling with SH.
2. Executing the NC letter, and letting you send it.
3. Willingly adopting your specific list of extreme precautions.

By breaking it up like this, you don't have to throw your whole list at him at once, but you don't throw out your boundaries, either. Detailed extreme precautions, IME, are VITAL to recovery, especially when there has been a false R. The bar needs to be set so much higher.

I would also recommend leaving in a "whatever else I need" clause, so if you think of something later you can add it.

Depending on how the OW reacts to the breakup, it may even be beneficial to move far away.

Can you summarize several of the items just by saying "complete transparency and access to all email accounts, passwords, cell phones, etc."? Details can be worked out after the initial stuff.

Also, I agree with keeping the PBL short, in spite of my suggestion to add a couple sentences. If you can add them and reword something to still keep it short, that's good.

This is a great suggestion.

Ok I am going with the general consensus as I know you guys know whats best. I am revising it in a bit.

My PBL is just short of a page. I can actually post it in a bit.

Neak,
So do you mean have a couple conditions for him to actually come home (move back in etc) and then a 2nd set to recover marriage?

I would see him moving back home at any point in stage 2 that you can see by his plethora of actions, that he is totally serious.

He's already had one false R, so he no longer has the luxury of blundering around.

Also, after he talks to Steve, Steve will be able to give you a good recommendation as to whether WH is ready to start moving back.

The first couple of steps are just to show that he's serious enough that you could talk to him about continuing to THINK about recovery.

What? So are you saying show him the first set of conditions and see what he says?

I am lost sorry. So what if he wants to come home.

I was under the assumption that if he agreed to the no contact then he should move home as he is living with her LOL.

Alright ya'll I'm slow at times, so I am just a bit confused as how this goes. I thought he would agree and then come home. But not so?

Help?

Funny just got off the phone with H as he called me to talk about his day. I asked when he planned on visiting next and he says well I really want to come every other day if I can. Interesting.

What happened to your "no expectations"?

I wouldn't worry about all the conditions until it actually happens.

And be prepared that he may read your posts here once he finds out about MB.

And, of course he would like to come every other day!!!!!! He's turning into the Cakeating King.