Can someone offer advice. I've been up all night thinking about what to do.

WH is claiming that I kicked him out, that I can make more money than he does, that he didn't know this, didn't know that etc. All lies except the salary part. I did make more than he did, but that was before I left the corporate world. My skills are now outdated and I'm 5 years older. The technology field is for the younger (like under 54).

Anyway, I'm not sure whether I need to go to great lengths to prove this A. Should I have my Atty subpeona his credit card transactions, company expense reports, phone records etc to prove that he stayed in another state spending money on the A when he should have been at home? I could also submit the many emails that I sent pleading for him to stop the A and work on the M (under Jennifer's guidance). I hoped that it would never get that ugly. I don't want it to for many reasons, mostly including cost, but also I think that ugliness of that nature leaves more scars than are already there. I just don't want to come out on an end shorter than I already have.

As Luna suggested, I've thought of emailing him to request that we work this out without the attys, but he is very hard headed. My realtor says she has never met anyone who is so not open to discussion or reasoning.

I have no problem contacting him to request that we mediate if it seems the right thing. If I did, what should I say and how should I say it? Just keep it short and to the point?

I would appreciate a perspective from anyone who has been in this sitch.

hire the BEST lawyer you can find and then take their advice.

I always think the best thing to do is to put the OW and the WH on the stand and make them, under oath admit to what they did.

Just get a bull dog attorney and follw his/her lead.

I'm of the opinion that it should be 'blood from a turnip' time when a divorce or separation results from a spouse cheating. The WS is the turnip. That, in this case, seems to be your h.

I believe BSs should have bulldog attorneys who will go for the jugular and get the blood from the stupid cheating turnip.

Maybe you could schedule free consultation w/ a different attorney and with a mediator.

Sometimes mediation is less expensive and less confrontational than attorneys. Personally, I have no experience with it.

That's a great idea but this stuff was $22 for 150 yards. An afghan would be about 1000 yards, wouldn't it. That is a problem.

Depends on the Divorce laws of your state. In Michigan, and Ohio mediation is almost always the cheapest, quickest way out of a bad union.

Be careful of attacking for emotional pleasure. Yeah, you were the one who got the bad end of it all- poor thing, but now you are talking about your financial future.

Put on them' big girl panties and get the most experienced, reasonable atty. you can. Bulldogs are nice, but make WAYYY more money for themselves than reasonable ones. My sister paid her atty. TWICE the ammount that she got in her divorce settlement!
She got a lot of "we'll get 'em" talk from that b*&^% at the beginning, too.
JMHO

What is he hoping to achieve by this? Will it make any difference to the distribution of marital assets if he is believed? Are you in a fault or no-fault state? If you're in a fault state, then I'd go for it (it being the larger part of a disproportional settlement awarded because of adultery). Is he seeking anything from you? Do you have alimony in your state?

MEDC, Cinders, Barbie, PM

Thanks for the feedback. I think I've decided as you all advise - let the atty handle it. Is he a bulldog? I'm not sure I would describe him as such, but he is reasonably priced.

I called him today and he said that it really doesn't matter what the reason is. We are a no-fault state. I asked then why WH's atty put the "kicked-out" part in writing and he said that he really didn't know why they did it that way. He said the judge would only be concerned with a fair asset split. My atty said we are still going for support etc.

I asked if it was worth contacting WH to work this out without atty's and he said yes that it was always worth it. I think I'll just let him handle it though. I just want to stay in my Plan B, safe and sound. I'm afraid that contact with WH will not be good for me. I'll reconsider if this looks like it is going to go on for too long though.

Also, I asked exactly what WH is seeking and he said that they have really not given us any indication of that.

Thanks again for the feedback....

Chai

It is generally true that mediators are less expensive than attorneys at resolving these issues. They are required, in my state, to be impartial.

I had something arise a few years ago and thought I might need a mediator but the one I talked with said he couldn't do it because he would be required to be impartial and he could not deal with the situation in an impartial manner..... I think he thought I was being shafted and doofus was not being reasonable/rational.

I do know my divorce decree as prepared, stated that my x was guilty of inappropriate marital conduct. When I got it back from the judge, that was marked out and someone had written in that we were both guilty of such. I maintain that my only inappropriate conduct was when the children were 5 and 3 and I told him, in a pique, "I would tell you to go .... yourself but you'd probably enjoy it too much". I think that was nothing compared to the multiple EAs and moving out and being gone for 3.5 years. While that made me mad, it didn't really matter because I have a couple of great stories to tell about it. And, I regained sanity in my life. God knows the truth.




(BTW, I am not enjoying my Nubbly-Bubbly {or whatever it's calle} yarn on my turboaddi needles. I keep losing stitches and they are HARD to find)

Hi Chai,

I missed you girl.

PROTECT YOURSELF AT ALL COST AND ANYWAY YOU HAVE TO.

You have done everything with dignity and grace, beyond reasonable and been willing to concede always. But enough is enough.

Chai, look to G-d and seek his guidance on how to handle it and ask him for help. Ask him for the strength to walk through this and ask him what he needs from you to work through this.

I love ya girl.... You have amazing strength, you have worked so hard for your place of protection, and you have always been willing to see both sides.

CL, I'm still on record wanting you to get a pit bull lawyer. Jennifer would want you to go with mediation if you can stand it.

No-fault states suck. Like mine.

SD,

Why would Jennifer want mediation? She and I never really talked about that.

The atty fees just seem to keep adding up which is why I considered mediation. My atty told me that WH had to get a new atty because I moved to different county and we filed here. WH's old atty would not come to this county. That means WH had to start over with a new retainer etc.

My atty also said that I will have to be at the hearing. I assume that WH will too, so I guess we will have to face each other.

I'm fast approaching DDay - Christmas will be two years. I guess when it happens you don't think about where you'll be two years from then. Never thought I would be in this sitch, ever....

I've felt a little lost this week for some reason. I think that it is all of the uncertainty about my future.

Hi Chai!
I don't think I've posted to you before but I just want to throw my .02 into the ring since I am divorced.

I also live in a no fault state. I met with quite a few attorneys before I selected one. More than one of them wanted a large retainer "in case" this goes to trial. There was no reason for it to, we were both in agreement on the details, just not the cause of it.

My feeling is a "pit-bull" atty is the only person one who will win in the arrangement. Their tactics and the emotions that are stirred up in both parties get ugly. This cause both parties to dig their heels in, hence a longer divorce process. Guess who is the only winner in that situation? Yes, the very pricey pit bull.

FOR ME, and this is nothing more than my own POV, this is how I felt going through my divorce. When WH left me, I was devastated. I was the Fourth of July fireworks of LBers!! I left a message on his cell phone calling him an AIDS carrying M-F. Not one of my best moments. I threw his clothes on the front lawn and left them there for a week or more. It was an out of body experience, I felt so out of control and I was so hurt, shocked, etc. We all know how it feels.

Anyway, at some point, I decided that IF I could not stop this divorce, I was going to conduct myself like a lady! I was going to hold my head high and show them all what a classy person he was leaving behind. My point is, once the divorce gets going - it's about us. I felt that any toxic emotions were harmful to ME, not him. He was going to do what he wanted to do, irregardless of me. I could not control him, but I could control my actions. It was very hard at times but it was the best thing I have ever done.

I do not believe in hating people, etc. There is a saying: Holding a grudge/resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. I have forgiven my ex (for my sake) and on most days do not harbour ill will towards him. He is the father of my child and I think I will always care about him and what happens to him.

From a legal standpoint in my no fault 50/50 state:
My attny was the former Attorney General for the state. He did not charge me a lot and told me to hold myself with grace and dignity. He told me the judges did not really care about the cause of the divorce (such as another person) but rather about how the two parties conduct themselves and a fair settlement. He told me alimony was given in what is considered a reasonable and fair manner. My ex wasn't making a whole lot after child support and we had some decent assets that were split 50/50. He told me in this case, the judge was not going to make him pay something he couldn't afford.

I have a friend with truckloads of assets. He went to mediation and found that worked best for him. It took a long time and you are paying for that time, but the upside is that the mediators will only allow the two of you to fight fairly. The soon to be ex listens better to mediators than to pit bulls in court rooms. In his case, he could afford alimony and is paying it. However, alimony is always temporary, not lifelong. It may be a few months or a few years, but it is not forever.

At the end of the day, you have to consider the divorce in a way that is best for your mental health. You need to let so many things go, even though you have a "right" to feel angry, bitter, self righteous, etc. At the end of the day, it's over and it doesn't matter anymore. I don't say this to disempower you, but rather to empower you. Many times "pitbulls" are about revenge. They are the only winners.

Anyway, once again I've rambled on but I just wanted to give you some things to think about. Maybe a different point of view. I think my divorce is the hardest thing I will ever have done in my life - and believe me, I've been tested some. At the end of the day, I think it must be part of some cosmic plan (damn well better be!!) and it is molding me into who I need to be - for better or worse.

Anway Chai, take care of yourself and good luck.
-S

Oh yeah - sadly enough he has tried to come back so many times post divorce. It's awful, he threw away a great thing that just really needed a tuneup. Couldn't see it until I cut him loose. I finally had the opportunity I dreamed about but didn't desire it anymore. I probably would not even had that opportunity if I had hired a "pitbull". So just keep that in mind.

I don't know, CL. I'm not sure there was anything useful in what I posted to you. My emotions getting the better of me, I think.


I think this is what Jennifer would want you to do.

SD,

There is always something useful in a post. Just the fact that someone is willing to post and support me makes the post useful for that very reason alone. I have appreciated your posts along the way as yours and every post reminds me that I am not alone in this situation. For that I thank you.

Shattered,

Thank you so much for your perspective because that is exactly what I have wrestled with.

I'm am a quiet non-confrontational person, so throughout this whole ordeal I have only had a few LB's. They were usually when I found out that he lied yet AGAIN, and especially when I found out he gave her money when we were having financial challenges of our own. MY LB's though are of the "how could you do this" nature. I have never called him names, ever. The last LB had me leaving a voice mail that told him that I underestimated his capacity for lies and betrayal, and that I didn't believe anything that he said. I also told him that I was filing for LSA and that he should contact me through an atty. All that was after 9 months of continued lying, sneaking, and total dishonesty. So all in all, I don't think my LB's were as bad as they could have been. He once played a vm for me that the OW left him. It was brutal. F this, F that, threats etc. So hopefully she will show him that maybe I'm not such an awful person to live with. Her demeanor was certainly opposite of mine.



And I have also felt that I don't want this to get ugly. I have known him almost 50 years and will always care about him. You can't live with someone for 35 years and not care. And yes, I want to be able to take the high road. He knows what a classy person I am. He made that comment many times over the course of our M.

My WH doesn't make a lot either, and has tons of cc debt run up on OP. I realize that the judge won't care about the reasons, but I'm at least hoping that I can get help until I can pay off my business loans. He basically left me with all of the business debt and the car with little income from the business.

Anyway, thanks for your input. In my heart I know that WH is making a mistake. We had our issues over the years, but overall we lived together very well, and overcame a lot of obstacles thrown in our way. We had also built a nice nest egg for retirement and could be sitting well at this point. D will tear all of that down though.

Oh well, as they say - "sh1t happens." Must be for a reason.

Just had to journal a little tonight, so I'm going to ramble a bit.

Not sure if it is the weather (cloudy, windy, cold) or what, but I have been in a funk today. Sadness set in on me for some reason and the tears come and go. What's up with that? How can a person be so up, then sooo down? I just don't get it.

I try to look ahead in my future, but right now I don't see anything, or at least anything good. The finality of the M, the birth of a child with no home, one parent in jail, and both parents addicted to drugs, a mother in her final years in the nursing home, and no real other family except a brother who is much older. I keep trying to figure out how I can finish my life on this earth totally alone. It gets pretty frightening at times.

I knew a couple that had no children and no family. They moved into a place that had independent living, then assisted living, then a nursing home. They started in independent, then moved to assisted. When he died, she made arrangements with an attorney to take care of her business, and arrangements with the facility to move her to nursing whenever the time came. I guess I will do the same thing. The assisted living place that my mom was in accepted people starting at 55. Yikes. I could move in next year!!

I'm not ready for that quite yet though. Most residents have walkers or scooters, and I'm not there at the moment. However, it is something that I should start to think about. Oh gawd, I hate it when I'm in these d@mn moods. I'm all doom and gloom. For now, if I fall and can't get up, well dammit, I'll just have to lie there until I either die or can get up.

I stopped at Borders tonight and bought The Love Dare. Not sure why since I have no one to use it on, but I liked the movie Fireproof so figured I would get the book. Maybe I can use it someday.

My cousin still wants to introduce me to his friend. Told him to wait until my D is final, and MAYBE I will be ready. For now, NO. Maybe I mentioned it, but the guy is in the Peace Corp currently living in a hut on some far away secluded tropical compound. His W of 30+ years passed away so he quit work to do this for 2 years. Maybe it isn't a bad idea. Give back. Help those less fortunate.

Hopefully it will be a better week. I wish there was an easier way to get to the other side of this thing, but I think not.

One other question - is it ever a good idea to go back and read your entire thread? I sometimes want to do that, just to see if I have come any distance at all, but I'm afraid that it will trigger bad feelings.

Chai....I have only my 83-year-old mother with a flaky brain and my children who are teenagers. I am about your age and I wonder about the same stuff.

And, just in case you didn't know, you have come a long way.

Cinder,

Hopefully you will be able to depend on your teenagers someday. I don't think I will ever be able to depend on my DD for anything since I think the narcotics have done permanent damage to her brain. I don't think she will ever be responsible. I know individuals like that....

Long way? Somedays it feels like I have gone backwards - to the depths of Dday and below. Do you EVER get over this?

It depends....

Fortunately, my x never had a PA but he did have multiple one-sided EAs....and they were, apparently, all one-sided. So, I don't have OPs to deal with daily.

But, he moved out in July 1995 and, every now and then, I get so mad at him that I could spit and be generally hateful. But, for the most part, I now know it's not worth getting that wrapped up in. It took me several years - and lots of good therapy to get there. A co-worker, with whom I worked prior to all this mess, told me the other day that she could see how therapy had made be a better and healthier person.

So, you never get to where you are scar-free but you do reach the point where you are much better.

CHAI:

I know what-cher-got! Moody Blues! I get them to, Don't read your prior posts if you think that it will put you in a funk, but just think of what you have been through recently.

My old psych. prof said everyone carries an invisible potato sack with them.

Each problem you come by is another "potato".
Being humans, we pick them up- or others tend to put them in out packs for us.

At first, a few poatoes are not too bad (this bill, that bill.. car wreck.. daughter phone call..) but all too soon they have an amazing wieght. If you do not realize the potatoes are heavy, you forset the sack is there -- and you start to have "back problems". Your feet hurt (you don't know why- they did not hurt yesterday)-- You walk on and on, you start to sink, and you don't know why you are not getting anywhere...

and THEN guess what-- some of those forgotten potatoes at the bottom of the sack are starting to rot. Damn potatoes.

So I'm sure you can see where this is going. Take it easy on yourself. Stop picking up potatoes. Realize some potatoes you must carry for awhile- but not forever.

How do you clean out that 'Tater bin?
I wish I had an answer for you-- I have had mine so long....

-- they call me "tater salad".