I posted earlier yesterday and haven't had any response. I'm new here and I know a lot of you know eachother, but I'm really struggling and need some help, some perspective. I feel like I'm dangling on the end of a fishhook. When he can't have me, he wants me. But I'm too tired for games, and feeling so betrayed by his quick romp to another woman after such a short time apart from eachother. He is not at all concerned for my feelings. Never asks how I am, keeps everything he does a secret. Tells me he can't talk to me, as if it's my fault he won't share the things in his life. He has always had a hard time communicating - always preferred to ask for forgiveness rather than express things up front. His lies about being with someone else until after we had been to bed - after what I thought was us reconciling, he says is because he didn't want to hurt me. I think he just didn't want to get caught.

If I'm rambling, I'm sorry. If it makes no sense it's because I feel like I'm standing in the middle of a terrible car wreck, looking around at all the bodies lying on the ground and feeling like I've had my guts ripped out. I can't ever imagine loving any one else like I do him. We had our problems, but he is a piece of me, a piece of my soul, and I don't know who he is now. He holds me at arms length and analyzes me in silence - wants physical contact, but I know he keeps his real thoughts separate, and chooses only to see my during times when he isn't doing anything else. I feel like I've done something I have to make up for, but I haven't done anything - he is the one who lied that he wasn't involved with anyone else - and that he wouldn't even think about someone else except for me. Then I find out there is this whole other life he's begun building with her. How do I possibly deal with the suspicions of his lies. Or is he really that good of a liar? Sometimes I think he is feeling things so deeply about us, and others times I see this selfish, lying, insensitive person who is only thinking of how he can manipulate me. His taker is in charge, and he wants me to change without even considering that he contributed to our situation. The worst part is, I think he almost wants me to end it, so he can move on and it's not his fault.

I am so struggling with this. I'm so lost, and scared, and hurt and feel so desperate. He tells me he wants to grow old with me, that he wants to rebuild us, and then he doesn't even call for days at a time when I know there is nothing stopping him. He seems to relish in the freedom he has now, and I feel like I'm just flying in the wind, throwing myself at him, expressing how important he is to me, while he commits nothing. Having a cup of tea is enough reason not to answer the phone.

I want to feel that he wants me too. I'm so confused. I'm so bloody confused. Part of me says that I'm putting in all the effort and he's doing nothing. Maybe that's my taker, but he won't even let me spend time at his house - only wants to come to the house we shared together. Is it because he's keeping her on the side????? It kills me to think of it, because he says he broke it off. But my radar is screaming that it's a lie.

Plan A is fine, but Plan A gives him his cake right now. I can't seem to wrestle how desperate and unbelieving I am that this is happening. Sorry for the ramble..... I'm scared.

If you're throwing yourself at him, you're not really doing a Plan A.

I read your posting from 06, and I think it's time for you to consider Plan D. Or at least B--no contact until the A is over for good.

Have you read the book "Surviving An Affair"? If not I recommend it highly. You can order it from the book store here on this sight or check with your local library.

Your H is still in a very ACTIVE affair.

I recommend that you read more on plan A and read more on plan B.

I would not recommend more than 6 weeks of plan A before moving on to plan B.

Please read and educate yourself completely about the plans.

Thanks for your suggestions. It feels very much to me like there is something going on. It's killing me. He denies it but
I feel it, I know it. Now it is Friday afternoon, and we were supposed to meet for dinner. I suggested we go to his new house afterward and he shied away and doesn't want me there. I feel like he doesn't want her to see my car there. He denies this vehemently, but my God, I just FEEL he's lying. I really don't think he ended it with her. There is this distance that he puts up when we're together now, and it's the kind of distance you see when a man has someone else to catch them when they fall.

Now I've told him that I can't take what he is doing to me, and what he is doing to how I feel about him. I told him that I won't see meet him today, and unless he's going to stop pushing me away and treating me this way, I am moving on and have to stay away from him so I can heal. He says that's fine, he will think over the weekend and let me know Monday. He says realizes he has to make up his mind if he can give me what I need from him.

My God, I've given him an ultimatum. I don't even know if I mean it. What the hell if Monday is the end????? I'm not even prepared for that possibility.

I think it is time for Plan B. Have you thought of that?

You need to get strong and stand on your own for awhile. You have been going through this for too long.

Is hubby still drinking?

How is your son doing?

Hi. No, hubby is not drinking. He seems to be actually doing very well, and has changed in ways to determine who and what he really is. I believe he does love me. He says he knows that he does. He doesn't know that he knows the way to resolve our issues, though, and is struggling with the pain we caused eachother in our attempts to deal with the problems we had. I don't know if he is still seeing her. He says no, but I think part of his filtering out his own emotions has been to experience the interaction with someone else, to see what he missed about me, and what he didn't miss.

I'm trying very hard today to be reasonable and rational about my situation. I posted in response to Hotchocolate a minute ago, and I think I was actually sorting out a new perspective for myself. I was abondoned by my parents as a child, and definitely have issues with trust and fear of abandonment. I thought I had dealt with it, but I see now that I haven't. My mistrust of people being there for me triggers incredible overreactions that I can't seem to control. I become an absolutist and immediately jump to the worst possible conclusions. With that comes angry outbursts and accusations. Trying to make the the pain to go away, lashing out in hurt, and wishing to God someone would reach in and comfort the little girl inside. Of course, it seems I don't trust them when they do.

This is of course, MY issue to deal with. I'm realizing no one else can heal this. My expectations of him to heal this are impossible. And having come from a secure family background, he has NO point of reference to even understand or empathize with my state of mind.

My son is more stable now then he was. His father (my ex-husband) has a long family history of mental health issues. Biological mental illness runs deep in the family. I've been trying very hard to break the whole ball of snakes we are dealing with into individual situations to be considered individually. My son is being forced by the court to have treatment. He is not compliant. But he is not as volatile as we was before. For that I thank God.

As far as Plan B, I think in my half assed way I was doing plan B by telling him, no more - no contact this weekend, tell me Monday where you are at. In some incredible twist of fate, he called me last night and told me that he loved me and he knew he wanted in his heart to spend his life with me. But his head was not sure we could put the past behind us and not keep responding to our problems in the same destructive ways. In his typical "engineer" style way, he plans to write it all down and make a list to try to sort out what he will decide on Monday.

At least I know that it is his nature to be thoughtful in making decisions, and to be reasonable and rational. I have always told him that I didn't know how he could be so unemotional about things - now I am greatful for how he methodically paces himself through the decisions he makes. We'll see if I'm so rational later today.
Thanks for asking!

I think hubby may be living two lives and cake eating. It is a huge red flag that he doesn't want you at his home.

There is a good book you should get called "Feeling Good", by Dr. David Burns. I don't know if you have read it, but it teaches you how to perceive things differently, and gives exercises. I used to be very much like you with all or nothing, black/white, thinking. It really helped me because I didn't even know there was a different way to think.

But I do think that you need to take your time and get a plan. If it is Plan B, then you need to slow down, write him a Plan B letter, get it vetted here, and get your ducks in a row so you can stick to it.

We can help you get through this. I know you don't know a lot of us here, but you will soon. You will get great support to improve your life/marriage.

I have point black told him that I see his desire to keep me out of his home as a sign that he is seeing her. But there is more to this than that - when we separated in the summer, things were very heated. My son was in a manic state - I don't know if you know much about bipolar disorder, but in the manic state, he does not sleep, is very forceful, does very bizarre things and can be violent. I have had to lock my bedroom door to escape the rages that he has when he is like this. He was hospitalized in May to stabilize him. But he is non-compliant with medication. Our home was not a nice place to be. My husband was unable to cope with all of this - not a weakness, I could not cope with it either. Our health team is great, but it is incredibly incredibly difficult when you have a family member with mental illness.

Our decision was, I would buy the house out from him, he would invest this money in other homes - one for him, others to rent out to invest in our retirement.

In my state, I was angry at my husband for his inability to cope with my son's problems. I was unable to cope with anything really. I didn't follow through on my commitment to maintaining our relationship as we arranged separate living arrangements. I didn't communicate this to him, just couldn't cope. During the last month, I moved out of our bedroom, basically ignoring him completely. I did not support him in packing, I think I was so distraught over everything, that every time he asked me to sort through what was mine and ours, I lashed out at him. I was a mess.

When he left, I found myself wandering around noticing things he took that I thought of as "ours", that I didn't know he took. I called him and accused him of selfishly taking things he knew were not his. Of being deceptive. He remained calm and even tempered, inspite of the fact that he had every right to be offended. When he left, I cut him off completely. I needed to regroup, to help my son, to be able to function in my work. He reached out with a lot of love, begged me to not throw us away. I didn't respond to his phone calls, didn't answer his emails. I even gave away roses he sent me. In my mind, I had too much stress to be able to function, and I couldn't manage "our" issues as well as my child.

He tried for 2 months. Then I was hurtful to him on the phone one evening and hung up on him. He didn't call again. Then in time, I realized that what I did, and I reached out to him. My way of coping was to lash out, and when I came to his house the first time, I saw things that I had noticed he had taken without my knowledge. Of course, I had not wanted to participate in splitting up our belongings in spite of his efforts. But I took it as a sign of deceipt on his part. I accused him of being selfish and deceiptful. He started seeing someone else then.

Now, he tells me he can't take fighting with me anymore. He wants us to communicate with eachother, not fight. And he is scared that I will see something that I will accuse him of taking when I go there.

In two weeks time, his house in the other city will be rented out and he is moving into another home he bought back in our city. He tells me he will be here in two weeks, and we can create "our" place together in his new home. I am trying to see things the way he is saying this. I know I over react, and I'm trying to believe him. He says that if he feels on Monday that he can try again, he will do whatever he has to do to prove to me that he did break it off with her when he told me he did. He says this is not about other women. This is about how he feels.

Does this sound reasonable on his part, or am I seeing what I want to see?

Believer - also - thanks for your offers of support here. I think I'm going to wait until Monday to see what he says, and then decide if it's Plan A or B. Obviously it has to be Plan something... Thanks, again

I think you may be seeing what you want to see, because in your earlier posts (06), you said he was combative with your son, over very little.

I have a grandaughter and a step-daughter that are bi-polar. So I know how that one goes. And a hallmark of the disease is not wanting to take meds.

You do need to get a plan going, my point was about not making any sudden decisions.

Yes, he was combative with my son over very little earlier on. We struggled alot in blending our family. We had very little time to even be a couple at all. I think that was part of the problem - my ex was not able to see my kids, and we didn't take the time to have the 15 hours a week Dr. Harley suggests. My husbands ex wife was also trying very hard to cause problems in our home. As we speak right now, my son is calling me every name in the book because he wants me to sell our home and give him money to start some scheme that he wants to do to make money. (He is 17, and the scheme is absolutely bizarre). He is not on meds. This has been going for the past few years, and there are days when it is truly unbearable.

I agree I don't want to make rash decisions. I may be seeing what I want to see. Today, right now, I want to see that. On Monday, if he is not committed and I don't feel confident in this, I will have to commit myself to breaking free and implementing plan B. I know in my heart, that is what I will have to do. That is all I can do. This where I'm at right now, I don't know that I am capable right now of anything else.

Chryss, what have you done to force the meds issue for your son? Has he ever been hospitalized? Does your son's medical team treat you as an integral part of the treatment team? At 17 there are still some things you can do to get help.

start at bpkids.org if you are not already familiar with that resource.

You need to find out a way to force him to take the meds. Don't put up with him calling you names.

My ex and I had a blended family - 8 kids, and it wasn't easy.

I have done everything legally possible. When he was younger, I had legal right for his medical care. At 16, I no longer had that and I could only be told things by his psychiatrist if he authorized it. He was on lithium for several months last year, which made a huge improvement, but he hated the flat effect and went off. Then we did Valproic for a few months, and he was hospitalized and put on Risperdal (anti-psychotic). Again, he decided he wouldn't take the meds after he came home. I was told that I would have to call the police during these episodes and have him removed from the home. I did this, and he went to a youth shelter, with the condition that he take his meds to come back home. He agreed for two days, came home, and went off the meds. He believes we are all trying to do something to him. I have been told by our medical team 1) it generally takes ten years from diagnosis to accept it, and 2) at 17 he is responsible for his illness - I cannot do anything to force treatment.

I am a member of bpkids.org. I have attended countless lectures, seminars, read books, see therapists regularly, and currently have a court order for mental health diversion that he has to participate in, otherwise the call to the police the last time will result in criminal charges. With 95% of our jails filled with people with mental health issues, the truth is that people suffering from mental illness are often "treated" through the criminal justice system. This is my child - sweet and loving and kind and beautiful until 15 years of age when the illness presented. Much like his father and grandfather before him.

This is my hell, and what the hell my husband could not cope with.

Hence my trying to be understanding of his perspective right now.
Thanks for your support...

Well, I don't have any advice about your son, but it does seem like we have an awful lot in common. Sounds like you have the same kind of master manipulator husband that I do. Isn't it ridiculous that they're the ones doing wrong, but somehow they manage to work it where they have all the power?
I think you need to begin to prepare yourself for the worst. I'm not saying thats whats going to happen, but it sounds like you are having trouble finding inner strength. I know how hard this is on you, but you certainly need to come up with a plan, something to guide you in how to deal with this so maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed and lost.

I'm sure it is hard. But if he didn't keep his promise after being in the youth shelter, then you should have sent him right back.

You are of course right. Without all the worry and fear for his safety, it is what I should have done. But it's easier to say it then to do it. I do know that he will be 18 soon. In my mind, 18 is an adult. At 18, I think mentally I have come to terms with the fact that I have to do what I have to do, and he has to do what he has to do. His illness has sucked the life out of my family. But it isnt' him, it's his illness. You have to imagine - in four months, he has not left our home. He doesn't have friends, he doesn't go to school. He is completely isolated, and totally unwilling/unable to interact with people. I am his only outside connection. I see a child and adolescent psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, mental health counsellor, and my m.d. regularly. It seems all I do is go from appt to appt, on top of caring for his sister who's 15, and working 50 hours a week. 40% of bipolar suffers end their own lives. That is a statistic that is a shadow over the rest of our lives. Counsellors have been working with me to help me be strong enough to manage, and to detach. Cold word, detach. Rings of not loving your child. But the only way to cope. Here he comes again......

You will get stronger, and I know exactly what you are talking about. My daughter is bi-polar and spent a year at our home, in bed. She didn't shower, didn't take care of her kids.

My grandauter, at 12, was a straight A student. She sang in the choir, was a perfect girl. Then she met a man on the net and arranged to meet him for sex. He was 47.

Thanks Believer
Then you do know exactly what I am dealing with. Normal life is just not something that we have the luxury of enjoying. My husband supported me through a lot of this earlier on. He was with me at the hospital everyday, at therapy appointments, and struggled with wanting to protect me from the abuse of my son. Eventually he could not watch anymore. We grew apart because there was no end to the way our lives changed. When our kids were really young, all four (his 2, my 2) had our struggles, but it was "normal" conflict for a blended family. Not easy, but not like this. He was unable to have his kids visit our home for two years due to the instability of my son. I am referring to my son sleeping with a knife every night, disappearing for days on end, then coming home and being completely irrational and violent. The police were here last year almost every two weeks. They know me by name now, and they know he is bipolar. The neighbours that are our friends with children tend to be very uncomfortable as his instability scares them. When manic, he is incredibly suspicious, nasty, narcissistic, aggressive, and demanding. He basically turns our home into a tornadoe. He will wake you at 2 am demanding some absurd thing. He sees the world as all sharp edges and broken glass. Nothing like the family we had once. When I find myself struggling with how he has changed, my therapist has come to trying to get me to have the perspective that I have a "disabled" child, and that maybe I can try to see it that I did have wonderful early years - something that some parents never had with children suffering from lifelong illnesses.

My husband is in his late 40's, I am early forties. We have worked hard to have a good life, I am finishing my Masters and have interests we share, and were looking at having time in the coming years to travel and have time together. That is not what life had planned for us. I can see his way of seeing things - I can see why he would want to run. On one hand, I think that he has left me when I am down. On the other, I think that to expect anyone who is not a biological parent to dig deep enough to deal with this is unreasonable. I don't know if I could do it if it were one of his kids. I really don't.

But a few weeks ago, after a particularly bad episode in which my son shattered our front window, I spent two days off work sick. And realized that I have the right to want some happiness too. I have the right, and it is not selfish, to want to be selfish and not put my son's needs above all else. Because I am helpless in stopping what is happening, and it is destroying me.

My husband brought sunshine into my life. In ways that I didn't even realize until he was gone for several months. I realized that I am not a bad person or a bad mother for wanting some happiness too. Except, he had moved on with someone else. Brief, and casual, so he says. But moved on and was able emotionally to connect with another woman. Something I couldn't imagine myself being able to do so quickly. So, here I am...

"There has always been a problem with my partner, and my son - two males in the house. I have many friends that have had the same trouble. But it was always manageable over the years. Now it's just insane. My son is in his teens, and rebelling a bit - nothing major. But my husband over reacts to the point that he is unreasonable. There are now rooms in the house that he says are "his", and myself and my kids cannot go in. He is so critical of my son, that I really feel that I cannot leave the house without my kids, because he will create a huge battle. I'm talking about little things like leaving a glass on a table once in a while - not anything serious. This is enough that my husband demands that I am not respecting his right to have control over "his" house (we both pay 50/50). We have tried counselling and they tell me he is controlling and critical, but he will not change"

This is what you said 2 years ago.

You really need to consider if your hubby has been all that supportive of your problem with your son.