So catperson, you are agreeing with POM? You and Turtlehead have been supporting me the whole time to keep my hope up and try to save my marriage but now it seems like your going to agree with POM that my WW is gone? Just looking for clarification.

I'm thinking when I get back I'll meet up with WW. As mentioned before she was wanting to get that paper signed to cancel the joint credit card. I guess I'll use that as an excuse to see her face to face in almost 4 months, 6 months since she's been home. Judge her body language a bit. See what she has to say, if anything. I also have some keepsakes I found around the house that she'll want, like her high school year books. I should bring those along too. Most likely the meeting will be for a coffee, probably a last goodbye type of conversation? No more of me pleading for her to come back, no more questions on my part about what has happened, though I wish I had answers as to why she she thinks the way she thinks. I continue to wonder if she ever reconsiders her actions. I wonder if she feels she's gone too far and now feels there is no way to reconcile? Is her guilt and remorse stopping her, who knows. She hasn't showed me any of that directly. But, as mentioned before, has told the BF that she "ripped my heart out".

It's our 2 yr. anniversary next week. and with Thanksgiving coming up aswell it's going to be tough.

I'm saying that I want you to focus on YOU. I hate to see you hurting so much, especially when it's because you're depending on someone else to do something, which of course you can't control.

You can always get back together later. This isn't death. It's separation, legal or not. People remarry all the time. But in the meantime, you're killing yourself over this, and I want you to shift gears and spend your days achieving things, moving forward, finding new things to occupy your mind and improve yourself. And if you get back together, it'll be after you've worked on yourself so that you're happier with yourself.

It's possible that, aside from the love aspect, you're just stuck. If you go ahead and shift gears, you might find yourself 6 months from now happier than you've ever been, kicking yourself for taking so long to get to that point.

Of course I can't speak for catperson but for myself, I encouraged you to work on Plan A because I saw hope that the marriage could be saved, yes, and because that is what you wanted at the time.

I think the credit card paper signing is a good excuse to meet up face to face. You could take the yearbooks too or save them for another excuse to meet up.


Before you say your last goodbyes, you should consider Plan B. Perhaps you could give a Plan B letter to her at this meeting? Or if you don't think you can do Plan B (and many cannot) then no need for last goodbyes, just file for D.

This is *never* part of the plan while the spouse is still wayward.

So, what do you want?
Plan A, Plan B, or Plan D?
I think your Plan A has dragged on long enough, but if you're not ready to D and you can't do B, then A is really your only option. What do *you* think?

Ditto.

AWH, I understand how you feel. It's totally normal to seek answers to the questions you have, but there is a wonderful moment of liberation when you stop asking the question "why?".

The liberation comes when you accept that you'll never figure out the why.

The odds are that your wife dated you for a very long time and thought that getting married would change things or change her feelings for you or that she got married because it was the next logical step after you guys lived together for so long and the next step had to be taken.

You're all she's known up until recently and she's all you've known.

There is absolutely no way I would ever date my ex now than if I was meeting her for the first time. I've changed and my standards have changed and I've seen what kind of women are out there both in terms of independence, maturity, and morals.

Do as Cat says and you will look back and feel better regardless of whether or not she returns to you. But if you spend the next few months or years bettering yourself, you'll be in a much stronger position to decide if you want her back or not.

You're going through a grieving process and you're certainly in the denial phaze right now.

"Why did she do this? I can't believe she's done this. This isn't like her normal self."

That's where you're stuck. It's ok. It's normal. You'll move on from there into anger.

Eventually you'll reach acceptance.

Don't beat yourself up too much for mourning the loss of your wife.

I sense that you just want to make a decision. Actually you do not have to make a decision right now. You can digest and take your time- delay the divorce, whatever. Nothing says you have to be in a hurry right now.

You all make very valid points. Thank you. I'll keep this response to all of you.

I am shifting gears, making progress, but every once in awhile I slip back a bit. I'm proud of the work I've done on my house, taken this opportunity through work that is proving to my mgrs. that I have the skills to move up within the business, I've rekindled lost friendships and made new ones. I've become closer with my family, we've never been close before. I'm finding new interests, where I can aswell. I've learned so much already from the books and this site as i've mentioned before. I do feel that I'm growing as a person.... a better person.

I'm over that needy stage (mostly) and see that I can be happy on my own. As POM says you'll start to get to an anger stage. I see myself having many different feelings right now....

Anger that WW would walk out and have A, drop 99% contact with me and seem to move on so quickly after so many yrs. together with no answers.
Remorse for doing the little things for my W, and knowing about EAs etc. Not showing her how much I really do love her.
Shame for the failure of my marriage, becuase I know I have my part in it. But accept that WW was the one who chose not to work on it, chose to walk away.
Hope, that this is good for my WW, who really does need to find herself, grow as a person, and become a less depenant person, become an individual....even though I don't like the way she is doing it. many people over the years have made mention of this and even I always have wanted to see her grow. Maybe in time she will see what she had in a different light than right now? I care enough to let go keeping hope that God has a plan and may draw us back together.

For Turtlehead,
What do I want. I ask for a lot. This is honest. I want my W back, not just who she was that I fell in love with but a better person for what has happened. As I am learning and growing, she needs to do the same.
I want to Plan A, don't want Plan B, and don't want Plan D.

Plan A has been long already and has drifted downhill, not on my part so much as I'm not really given any opportunities for it. I understand the principal of Plan B and think it would be good when the BS and WS have to interact often because of kids. It would be hard on the WS to be getting plan B'd, but see it as making it easier for WS to forget about BS if you plan B when there are no kids involved, nothing to draw them back.

I'm getting closer to acceptance but still grieving at the same time.

I think you nailed it....that's who I'm feeling right now. Move on, give up on my marriage so that I will have no remorse for my future actions, or hold on to hope, and my prayers to God that my WW will turn herself around and see that she does love me enough to stay married and work on our marriage.

It's a very confusing time, I know that I don't need to make a decision....but almost want to. I guess to move on?

First off sorry for posting such long posts. I have nothing but time right now so I keep typing....

I've been giving myself a lot of time to think, because I'm pretty much stranded in a hotel room for another 3 weeks and been there for 1 now. I can't just sit on the phone for an hour or two talking about my problems with family or friends.

My thoughts are always with WW. I think I miss her more, being miles away from home, than I did when I was home. Not sure why. Maybe because we've always taken trips together, and these memories pop up? Maybe because I know I'll go home and so badly want her to be there waiting for me? Maybe because I'm doing new things in my life, this working trip as one of them, and I want her to be a part of it? Not sure.

I've realized how badly I want to have kids, now. I don't know why this happened. I was somewhat afraid before all this happened. Not sure why my mindset has changed so strongly.

I've tried to convince myself to let go of WW, that she is never coming back. She herself is trying to move on with her life, or so I assume with so little contact from her. I've asked God to release me from these thoughts and give me strengh to move on. He has given me strength, because I no longer wallow in self pity, cry in depression, or feel the need to beg for WW to return. But, He has not allowed me to move on or give up hope. He has given me patience, reflection, and the ability for me to learn/ gain knowledge so that I'm a better person from this event.

I wonder if God is with WW as I have prayed to Him to be. I want her to be safe. I love my WW. I don't see that love for her dying anytime soon. But the pain she has caused is real. Her actions so deceitful and selfish, her lies so hurtful. There are times I wish I didn't care, but I care for her so deeply....

My husband did something similar when we were engaged. I fought tooth and nail to help him see the light and I won him back and we were married 7 months later.

BUT, throughout our marriage for 7 years, he has left me twice, once during my pregnancy and again now and there have been many unhappy times too.

Sometimes in my dark moments I do wonder if I should have fought so hard to win him back. I thank God for my beautiful children, but I wish that I could have given them a daddy who wanted to love their mummy and be together as a family forever.

Loving your wife and missing her and the possibilities for the future is normal and completely understandable. You are grieving for the future that YOU had planned. Don't mistake that as something that you shared.

You deserve a future with a wife that will love you and want to share your hopes and dreams for the future. Someone who will gladly be the mother of your children and not change her mind again when things get tough. Listen to the MB veterans. I have missed so much through my rose-coloured glasses and they really help to balance the picture and clearly show you your options. As a BS you feel like someone else is in control of you and your life - but here they really help you see that you have choices and you are going to be the winner here if you choose it.

AWH,

What you feel is very normal and you will feel that for a while. You'll weave back and forth from the grief stages and regress and progress.

Trust me, you're very far from acceptance. You're at the few initial moments of the anger stage and when it hits it hits hard.

I too thought I had "accepted" a while a go, but it wasn't the case. I don't think I emerged from the anger stage until earlier this year, but I still go back to that stage now and then.

The good news is that I don't miss exww at all as a partner. I miss my family and having a family unit. There's a difference between the two and one thing you won't have to deal with since you don't have kids, but you do miss your wife.

The fact is I don't think you miss your wife so much as the image of who you thought your wife was. Your wife would not be the kind of person that would cheat on you. Your wife is not the kind of person who is cold to you or throws away years so easily.

But the fact is that she is that kind of person and you may very well be in love with the image of who she is than who she actually is.

It's certainly more comfortable to think that the good woman you know is in there somewhere but that's just not the reality. The manipulative and deceitful person you know now is who she really was all along, she just had you in her life for as long as you were useful to her. You're not useful to her anymore, so you've been discarded without remorse.

It sucks. I understand.

But you'll back someday and be thankful she's out of your life because you'll have found something so much better.

Please understand I'm not cirticising you in any way. I'm giving you some food for thougth. I think we, the betrayed, are often in love with the image of who we thought our wayward spouses were rather than who they really are.

I get this impression, too. Is it possible you're in love with the idea of being married to your wife, and with the dreams of a future with her, rather than being in love with her and the person she really is?

bump.

What's up with you AWH?

Hi everyone. I'm still here. I've been thinking about all of you over this last month or so and I don't think I would be where I am today without all your support. Thank you. Nothings perfect, but I'm making/taking steps for myself.

I know I didn't do everything right or in a timely fashion regarding the steps that all of you told me to take. Of course then there were those of you who said that I should just walk away and be thankful that I don't have children with my WW. I have no regrets for doing what I did to try to save my marriage, or for the time I put into trying to save it. To me, it was what I wanted in my heart.

So I guess I should update you all. Here's the basic rundown, ask me for any details if you like and I'll explain it in more detail but don't want to make this post too long.

So I sent in all my paperwork that was asked for by her lawyer at the end of Sept. for the separation. At this point I have not heard from either WW or her lawyer that the papers are ready. It's been 1.5 months. WW called me 2 weeks after I had sent in my papers saying that she called the credit card company herself finally to cancel her card which froze mine temperarily. That's when she found out I was out of town. She sounded surprised but I didn't give her details of how long etc.
This is when WW told me that she is now going to move about 2 hrs away to a smaller town to go to school in Jan. If you remember WW couldn't get in till fall 2009 at the campus in the city. They have an opening for Jan and it sounds like she's taking it. She will have to live there for 10 months. Looks like she's going to stay with relatives for most of it.
In a way this is good for her. Looks like she is still with OM right now, still out partying with all the younger girls from her work etc. Friends have told me that she has lots of pics on her Facebook including pics of just her and OM, YET.....she still has the albums on there of our wedding pics, trips, etc.... Her moving away to a little town to be in school full time and needing to get a new part-time job will get her away from the influences she has right now........

End of Sept. I went out of town for business and was gone till just last week. A whole new experience. Living out of a hotel for 1.5 months, and knowing no one. The first week was rough but then I got to know quite a few people, made lots of friends, and ended up having quite the social life! Out nearly every night, and I'm still in contact with a few of them even though they know I may never see them again. I think this experience really opened my eyes that I can move on. Kinda got me away from reality for awhile but now I'm back.

I have the opportunity to move to where I was working for the 1.5months and take on a big promotion. Not sure what I want to do. Also wondering if I should puch on WW to get the sep papers done cause my bank has told me I can consolidate all debits and even have her payout included when I refinance. But I need the sep papers to take WW off the mortgage and do all this. This will also drop my monthly payments of bills by a few hundred dollars which would make life a little easier on me. Not sure what the WW would think of that if I started pushing on her....

Questions? Ask away! I'll be on here much more often now that I'm home again....

Thanks for posting. I really have been wondering...

I'm so glad that you are reclaiming your life. Did you think it possible 1.5 months ago?

Wow. I don't know. Do you think this new lifestyle is just a rebound? If so, be wary of it.

I recommend EVERYONE who goes through a separation visit a good therapist, preferably at least a psychologist, so that they can examine what happened and what they might do again to damage themselves. Are you doing this? I would really advise it before taking a new job and moving. If you can't wait, at least find a good therapist at your new location.

Thanks imagine and catperson, 2 months ago I would've never thought I'd be here, let alone 6 months ago when all this first happened. Yet, I know I'm not recovered, or fully in control of both the situation or my emotions. I'm trying to play it safe in most circumstances but at the same time I've realized that my past self was too compliant with doig the same old thing, mundane day to day and wasn't interested in change. I want to change that. That was part of my fault in the marriage and see that now. It's not who I want to be. So... I'm trying to be open to new things, experiences, directions, people, etc. And I feel better about myself now that I see all these people appreciate me for who I am, not my circumstances. I relied on my WW to be all this and I fault myself for allowing this dependancy.

After 6 months of being apart I still think of her often. I really do miss her touch, her smile, looking into her eyes. I miss that warm feeling she gave me even if she was in the other room. I still love her and I wish this didn't have to be, but it is. I've come to understand that at this point I have made my efforts and expressed my love to her. In reflection I can see my faults and deem that I will become a better person from this experience. I have also realized that my love for her blinded me to her faults. I never wanted to recognize them but see them now. I just hope she can do the same as I am and reflect to grow.

I don't know what the future holds, only God can see that. I need to be ok with that. Everything happens for a reason. And as much as I desire to rebuild and rekindle my marriage I am not in control of that.

As for this job offer and moving, I'm 50/50. I've asked for them to propose to me an offer but didn't guarantee anything. As for pushing on WW for the sep papers, any thoughts on that? It's what I need.

WW did txt me last weekend wanting me to drop off some winter rims for her car that I had here at the house. I said I'd drop them off at her parents since I had a couple things of theirs I needed to drop off. I did, she wasn't there but I did say hi to her parents. They seemed happy to see me, yet a little uncomfortable, and even gave me an early Christmas present, just something small. But we didn't talk about anything. Not one word.

You're going to have a lot of sad experiences like that. But they will gradually decrease, replaced by better moments. But I'm really really impressed by how much you've grown. Many people would just stay bitter and never work to learn about what happened. You are so much further ahead of that, so you've got a ton better chance of finding true happiness in the future. I have great expectations for you.

Hi everyone!!!
It's been about 3 months since I've been on here and wanted to give everyone an update. Again I'd like to thank everyone on here for their support through the roughest time of my life and I am still dealing but it's getting easier....

First off I have not seen my WW since last July in person. Since then there has only been a couple emails and I did talk to her back in Dec. when she finally went to a lawyer to get the sep. papers started. During that conversation she seemed like she wanted to talk to me, not trying to get off the phone and even said that we should get together to talk after Christmas before she moved a couple hrs. outside the city to go to school for the next 10 months. I asked why we would need to do that and she didn't really answer and from that point we haven't talked.
She is still with the OM but still kinda keeping it secretive to most people. Freinds of mine have told me that her Facebook page has pics of them kinda close etc. yet she still has all our pics up there too. Not trying to make sense of it anymore but I do want to ask her to remove the pics of us from there if she is going to be posting pics of her and the OM. I feel it's a little emmbarrasing for me since many of my friends still have access to her Facebook page.

She is REALLY stalling on getting papers done. Just before Christmas I took the letter her lawyer sent to me in and my lawyer and I sent one back agreeing with everything and that she can go ahead and draw up the draft sep agreement. It's been 2.5 months and I still haven't seen or heard anything. I've been debating for the last month or so to drop her an email and ask why is it taking so long and I also would like to meet up with her to give her the last of the items she left here at the house and I would personally like to give her my wedding band etc.
We can offically file for divorce in 2.5 months. I just can't understand why she continues to stall at every point for a couple months btwn each step. Seems like by the time we get the sep. papers done we will be able to just file for divorce.

I still think of her daily. I do miss her. I do love her. I'm not holding a grudge, or vengeful. I'm sad that this has happened but I don't have control of it and must let it go. I haven't been to counseling for months now but I'm going to set up appointments again as I can see a tough time coming over the next few months.
I myself would like to get moving on those papers and finish it. It's not what I WANT but what IS by her decision. It's just dragging....and I can't understand why she would want it to keep dragging? If she is happy with OM, doesn't have contact with me anyways, or if the marriage is over to her even if the OM wasn't a fator why not just jump on it and get the papers all finished? From what I just heard the OM's divorce just got finished too! Shouldn't that give WW some inititive to get moving on ours????

Anyways, I'll still keep everyone posted. I'll write more and look forward to your responses. May God be with you all! I know he has helped me through this.

WW is fence sitting and stringing you along as her back up man.

You need to send a plan B letter and have an intermidate handle all communication. Total darkness. If WW is stalling this is the only way you will knock her off the fence.

Don't be afraid to plan B thinking that it will make WW mad at you.

What can she do?

Sleep with the OM, move in with the OM, sleep more with the OM, stop sleeping with you?

Oh, I forgot WW is already doing this.

There is nothing more WW can do. A perfect plan B is your last chance.

This is not unusual when WW has to make a decision.