When I read this I wonder how ANY couples truly recover a REAL marriage after an affair. I also wonder WHY any BS would want their WS back (other than unrealistic nostalgia for "how it used to be") after such an episode. Yes, I do know what Dr. Harley (and others...Dr. Pittman) write about how affairs are fantasies and addictions. Ok, I admit, there are some affairs that are more "flings" or "trysts" than true deep emotional attachments. And of course some romantic affairs are shorter and shallower than others.

I guess what I am pondering about 'recovery' here is:
What kind of "marriage" is it when one partner will always have latent feelings of "missing" their ex-OP?
What kind of marriage is it when one partner will always have feelings of "love" for someone else?
What kind of marriage is it when one partner maintains NC only via duress and willpower?
What kind of marriage is it when one partner, even after moving out of state, struggles to remain unattached mentally?

Perhaps some former-WS's and/or marital recovering/recovered people can comment and clear this up....

(I have follow-up questions as well, thank you)

Well, only speaking for Flick and I (3.5 months into recovery) HE says he doesnt actually think about OW anymore, just some of the situations/issues surrounding her like whether or not her tenants are paying rent, then he thinks its not his problem so he thinks about oter stuff. He also tells me that OW was selfish and cruel, and a less than clean and tidy person which says alot from a man as naturally untidy as him who also has DS as 9th on the EN list.
Also as a recovring addict from other stuff, he sees the addiction for what it is.
I have removed many of the barriers to NC that were set in place at the start of recovery, yet he still maintains NC of his own accord, so definatly not 'under duress'
Finally the OW thoughts are less and less often with each day.

He made a comment 3 days ago that he can see now that the brain he was using then is not the one he is using now.

Lil:

Thanks for your reply and I am so glad for you both

However, I did notice that the time you listed between D-day and recovery was only 4.5 months. I would gather therefore that your FWH's involvement with his OW was fairly brief and did not get to the point of deep emotional entanglement. True or false?

I guess I mention this because Dr. Harley recommends waiting 2 years after initiating Plan B (I have seen multiple posters here describe how he advised them this personally). It seems to me that if Plan A fails (the usual) and Plan B requires that much time, the WS's emotional attachement to the OP is very, very profound.

Even if the A ends at that point, I am asking why would someone want a spouse back who will likely always be plagued by thoughts/desires/nostalgia for the ex-affair partner (even if NC is maintained)???

Dr Harley recommends 2 years of Plan B because that is usually the length of time in which most affairs will end.

It does suck that the WS or FWS still has those feelings for OP. But that is why NC is the key. They don't pine for OP it's a low burning flame. They don't yearn for OP. They are disgusted by their affair yet if contact is renewed the affair can reignite.

BK
3+ years of recovery.

As a recovering alcoholic with 23 years sobriety, I believe I fully understand this aspect of adultery because it is just like alcoholism. Dr. Harley treated alcoholics for many years which is why he understands waywards so well. This is why he is one of the few who is ADAMANT about no contact for life. He understands addiction and knows that complete abstinence is the only way to recovery.

As an alcoholic, I do not miss drinking. I don't even think about it. When I do think of drinking again, I recoil in disgust and horror. It is about as appealing to me as a concentration camp is to a holocaust survivor. It has nothing to do with "willpower" because I fully surrendered and accepted I lost that battle. I left the field of battle. I am not available to take bullets anymore.

But.....put me in a bar in front of the booze for a while and let me smell it and look at it. Pretty soon that overwhelming feeling of OBSESSION AND PASSION will be triggered again. And my mind will convince me that it "really wasn't that bad" and maybe this time "it wouldn't hurt if I just had one drink." And "no one would ever know..."

In other words, that sick obsession lies dormant in me and can be triggered all over again under the right conditions. I can show right back up on the field of battle to resume a battle I already lost. This is why it is so important for drunks to never have one drink and to stay away from triggering situations. It is just the same for a wayward. My H will tell you he doesn't miss his OW. I can see the indifference and disgust on his face and know he is sincere.

I have described this phenonom to other recovered waywards and they very much agree with this analogy.

But there is another key aspect to recovery that is just as important as no contact. And it is recovering the marriage and making it GREAT. Replacing the BAD MARRIAGE with a good marriage is the same as the alcoholic correcting his LIVING PROBLEM by replacing the bad with the GOOD. [via 12 Steps]

So, I can see how Dr. Harley's statement might seem confusing at first glance, but a true recovery is not a white knuckle effort becuase the wayward is not triggered and because he/she has hopefully built a great marriage.

ITA with Mel. Well said.

False.
EA started in Nov last year, became PA in mid feb, WH moved out beginning of MArch, moved out of town to care for dying father, OW moved out of town in other direction to be closer to her children,when FIL died, WH moved in with OW, but came on family holiday with us overseas. moved home soon after but started up the EA within a week. A was primarily emotional. WH moved back in with OW when I discovered the A had resumed, but it only lasted a short while. He still admits the EA was alot more fun than the PA.
He stillt hinks about how he helped her and the thought he told me was that during the A he couldnt work out why others couldnt see how good for her he was. ( )

There are some FWS on here that were in LTA's, they seem to be having very good reoveries with no NC issues.

SDC, you misunderstood what Dr H. meant. Plan B lasts for 2 years OR until the affair ends, whichever comes first. 2 YEARS IS THE MAXIMUM. Many affairs end much sooner than 2 years. 2 years is the maximum. After that, reconcilation is unlikely. Many decide to go to divorce if the affair does not end in ONE YEAR. It is a personal decision. Even so, most affairs do reach deep emotional entanglements.

I understand that. 2 years coincides with the average time "in love" feelings take to dissipate on their own...although somewhat prolonged in cases where the romance remains clandestine (Dr. Gary Chapman).


Yep...but the WS/FWS has to agree to maintain NC FIRST. It certainly also helps if they come to the realization of how disgusting and destructive the A was in the first place. It seems some WSs never do....

What kind of "marriage" is it when one partner will always have latent feelings of "missing" their ex-OP?
Did you have any boyfriends before you met and married your H? It's like that. Nostalgic and fond, but not part of the here and now. It's been left in the past.

What kind of marriage is it when one partner will always have feelings of "love" for someone else?
IMO the feelings are, at most, similar to what you would feel for an old boyfriend or girlfriend. The "love" is more of a nostalgia than a real love feeling. But those feelings are greatly tempered by the realization of the hurt that the affair brought upon others, and how far reaching the negative effects were, and disappointment in self that the affair ever happened.

What kind of marriage is it when one partner maintains NC only via duress and willpower?
It's not like the FWS has to grit their teeth every day and try strongly to resist OP. Sure, it is at first, but not in a recovered marriage. NC is something the FWS *wants*, if they are truly committed to the marriage. The OP is a threat to the marriage and to speak to the OP would be a huge sign of disrespect to the BS. Contact just isn't an option. It's not desirable.

What kind of marriage is it when one partner, even after moving out of state, struggles to remain unattached mentally?If the marriage is recovered, then there is no great struggle to remain unattached. There might be fleeting thoughts of "Gosh, I wonder what ever happened to OP" and they are instantly replaced by "Not my problem, glad they're out of my life now. I'm so lucky to have my spouse; I think I'll make a special dinner or plan a special night out to celebrate how lucky I am to be in my marriage after almost having wrecked it all."

NC is supremely important NOT because the FWS is struggling so hard to fight the great suck of attraction, but because - despite the FWS "knowing better" and "having learned their lesson", that OP is a threat to the marriage and feelings could rekindle instantly. Those feelings are dormant, gone, forgotten. NC ensures that they stay that way.

ML made a great comment - NC is just a little piece of the puzzle. Even more important is a RECOVERED marriage, one that the FWS would never want to threaten in any way. One that the FWS is committed to protecting from ANY threats. One that both partners constantly nurture.

Well of course nc has to be maintained. That is what we are talking about. That usually brings the WS to the realization that the affair was destructive because that is part of recovery. And yes, some WS do not recover. But many do.

This belongs in "Notable Posts"! Excellent!

thanks, KIR!

MelodyLane, your post sounded spot-on to me. I used to smoke and I was truely addicted to cigarettes. For several years I tried to give up but after 6 or 8 months I would end up smoking again, all because I would allow the addict part of my brain to convince me that it was now OK for me to have just one cigarette on a night out (that old 'I'm only smoking other peoples' trick) but it was never enough. Within days I would be back to the same level of smoking as before. It was only when I realised that I could never smoke again that I managed to give them up. I haven't smoked now for over 12 years and I am an avid anti-smoker. Nevertheless, I occasionally find myself downwind of a smoker and although I am mostly disgusted by the smoke, it does happen that I get a feeling of 'Hmmm, I remember that.' I imagine this might be the way a post-affair M might be (not that I'm lucky enough to be in this situation yet)

Mind you, where the analogy breaks down is that I had to build up a hatred of cigarettes in myself before I could give them up rather than the hatred coming after stopping.