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changed my mind. not willing to share this anymore

Sure you can.

The question is why don't you want to stop?

The answer to THAT question is that OM actually causes a response in your brain similar to that caused by doing drugs. You are, in essence, addicted to the feelings he causes inside of you.

The bad news is that those kind of feelings are very hard to give up. And like any addiction, you cannot gradually wean yourself off of the source but must quit cold turkey.

More bad news is that you will experience all the classic symptoms of withdrawal including depression, loss of appetite, inability to sleep, loss of concentration and focus and a host of others, some more painful than others.

But the good news is that you can actually achieve those same feelings with your husband, get over the symptoms of withdrawal from OM and live a happy and fulfilled life with the husband you already have. Your current marriage can be the dream marriage you seek.

But it doesn't happen over night and can't happen without some hard work. Some of that work might really need to be done by your husband, but some of it will be yours to do.

Does your husband know about your affair with OM or did he buy the "not about OM" and "just friends" line you probably handed him. (I'm not judging you here. You see, anyone who was ever a betrayed spouse has heard the same lines many times. And after reading here for a while, you will see how absolutely similar all affairs really are.)

Your best bet to ending this relationship with OM would be to write a letter to him telling him that you are sorry that you (plural) have hurt your husband and his wife, that you intend to do whatever it takes to make it up to your husband and that you wish to have no contact with him ever again for any reason.

What you need to realize is that your marriage has no chance of recovering unless you are willing to give it 100% effort. Anything less is just pretending anyway. And unless you are willing to do away with all contact with OM forever, you are not really committing to recovery with your husband and your feelings for your husband can't begin to change as long as OM is even in your life as a dream.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Mark

The thing is, I don't Want to go back to my H. He does not know of the Affair, and if all i get out of it is out of my marriage, then I guess I deserve all the hurt I recieve from this. It was not my intention to find anyone, I wasn't even looking. This site gives me a better insite on relationships in general, and for that I am thankful. I just don't know what to do anymore

I don't know why I married him in the first place. I guess I thought after 6 years of being together, it was what we should do...I though it would go from whats "his is his and there'd better be no questions", to "ours"...I thought as for the OM, we both tried ending it several times, only to come back to each other feeling more strongly about each other than before...I don't know if thats the addiction your talking about....

It's also called a fog. Because, when you're in it, you can't see past your hands, to be able to see the 'real' world. Every decision you make while you're involved in an affair is NOT your normal thinking. It may seem like it to you, but to everyone on the outside looking in, you're acting like some sort of alien who has inhabited your body. You're making crazy decisions, justifications that a few months ago you would have said were ridiculous.

And once you are away from the OM and have been through your withdrawal period, the fog 'lifts.' Then you can accurately see what you have done to the people who love you, and you will be horrified that you made such callous, selfish, crazy decisions. Decisions that the real you - the one without an addiction to the fantasy of the affair - wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.

What you are saying, 'never really loved him,' 'wasn't meant to be,' 'OM just gets me,' - everyone who has an affair says the same things. Trust me on that. Over and over and over again, they always say the same things. And when it's all over, they are so shocked and embarrassed that they turned into that person.

Not saying your marriage is great. But it could be, if you put the same amount of effort into meeting each other's needs as you are putting into sneaking around to meet with OM.

I suppose this is when you tell me I'm on the wrong site, but it has helped me understand this whole situation a lot more. Both from the OM side and mine. I just don't know where to go from here. I want to be able to be happy, no matter who I'm with or where I am...

theres the problem though. I was the one putting all the effort into our marriage, and I had enough. I tried talking to him about it. It was not important to him "there's the door" he sais...So I left. Only after I left he decided to act like he gave a damn. But at that time, I was "in love" and all that bliss. I know that you think I think that the om is something special and that he's just going to hurt me in the end. I never imagined I would be mixed up in this sort of thing and never would I wish this on anyone. He's moving out shortly into his own place, and I hope this gives both of us the time we need to figure out our own messes...

Think of it this way. What you're experiencing with OM is a fantasy. Not real. Won't work. Why? Because every moment with him is exhilarating, suspenseful, exciting, sneaky. Think of a couple 'doing it' in a bathroom stall at a club. Not a real relationship, but the mystery and secrecy and chance of getting caught makes it more exciting and more looked forward to.

But it's not real. Do you discuss who's going to take out the trash? How to make next month's bills? Grandma moving into a retirement home? Who's driving the kids to the practice?

No. ALL you do is sneak and have fun. Of course it seems like you like being with him more.

Three questions you have to ask yourself:
(1) What will he be like when I have to live with him every day? Will he rub my feet, bring me flowers, ask me how my day went? Or will he come home, turn on the tv, and wait for you to fix him dinner? If so, what's the difference? At least now you know what you get; if you throw your H away, you're taking a BIG chance, because...

(2) What kind of man will sneak around with another man's wife? Is that really the quality of person you want to go with? Why would you give up the man you loved in real life, not a fantasy world, for someone who has questionable, if any, values?

(3) And to that end, if he sneaks around with you, what makes you think he won't just do the same thing, to you, as soon as he gets bored with YOU?

So what your saying is "once a cheater, always a cheater" right? So I've now become someone that will never be happy with anyone, someone that will always look at the other side of the fence and always see greener grass? I never thought I'd be like this, neither did the OM. I was raised differently. I suppose circumstance has a lot to do with it, as does how you deal with it... So any person in here that has cheated, and is looking to fix things will always has the potential to go back and do it again right? The guilt will always be there. To be honest, I don't know if what I felt for my husband was love. He was the first boyfriend I had I was with him from 18 till now...I moved in with him within a couple of months and it stayed that way for a few years...I was scared to be by myself because I moved in right from mom & dads to his house. I'm on my own now, and the OM's W knows all about us. He's not staying with her, and he's not staying with me. She's been getting poor advice on how to break us up, and how to make both of our lives hell. All it does is stress everyone out...including her kids... why would anyone want to go back to that? even if you have kids with them...How can you look at that person again and feel what you used to?

I think you should take some time to read some of the threads here. You will see all kinds of scenarios. But of the ones that turned out where the H and W ended up back together, most will say that their marriage is now better than it ever was, because they are now finally truly honest, and working hard to please and care for each other.

Of those who leave their spouse for the OM/OW, most of them end up split up and miserable. It's just statistics.

Do you hear yourself? "she's [making] both of our lives hell"?

Why do you think that is?

Could it be because you have just destroyed her life by stealing her husband?

fwiw, my D18's boyfriend's parents met as an affair, left their spouses and married, had D18's boyfriend and his brother; 20 years later, when this wife had medical problems and gained weight, he went out and found another pretty young thing to replace HER with. It has literally ruined their 17 year old son. Ruined him. He hates everyone, everything. He went from a sweet, honest kid, to a race hater, female hater, wanting to beat up everyone he sees.

This isn't about you, when children are involved. You think SHE is stressing her kids out? Think again, and try looking in a mirror. Think about what they - the kids - are thinking about YOU.

Thank you for your advice Catperson. Lets just hope I didn't create a couple of race haters, and bullies. I appreciate your honesty in how you feel about the OW/OM. I am assuming you were once cheated on, and did not really see it from the other side. I did not imagine myself in this situation, and am trying to find a reasonable way out. Regardless if we have been seeing each other or not, W is harrassing both me and OM. That just shows me she is vindictive, and is not thinking about the best interest of her children. She is using them in any way possible to hurt him but only ends up hurting them. That is going to ruin them more than him leaving her. If I am incorrect, I appoligize. It does not make the situation any better, but it can be delt with a whole lot differently.

My dear Novembergirl, what we are saying is that when two people have shown that they are selfish, have poor personal boundaries and have little regard for promising to love, honor and cherish each other till death, the odds are pretty great that barring some sort of radical conversion, they will not suddenly reverse those character traits and be able to live happily ever after with each other. And when BOTH partners in a marriage have shown that to be true, then the probability of anything less than a repeat of history becomes very small indeed.



What kind of advice would that be? Is she telling him she doesn't want to give him a divorce? Is she telling folks around her, including his family, that he is having an affair with you? (That is a fact and the truth, BTW) Is she fighting tooth and nail to hold onto her husband and keep her family intact? Is she doing thing to make him desire staying with her rather than running off with you, like making herself more attractive, spending extra time with him, stroking his ego, filling his Love Bank so that he will dump you and stay with her?

Those are all things we here at Marriage Builders would advise her to do if she were here. In fact, have you considered that she might be here at this very instant and be getting that very advice from others and myself?

If you read Dr Harley's Basic Concepts you will see that the feeling we call LOVE is generated by feelings that result from having our most important Emotional Needs met by another person. Done often enough over sufficient time, these feelings reach a point that we begin to feel LOVE for that person. A host of chemicals that are released in the brain create a sense of well-being and happiness. These chemicals are the same ones released when an addict smokes crack, BTW and is why it is so hard to stop loving someone. The mere thought of them is enough to invoke those feelings and we become blind to almost everything else in life.

The thing is, though you might not remember those things with your husband, they did in fact take place at some point or you would never have even considered dating him let alone marrying the guy.

But another set of chemical reactions is now at play in your brain. The chemicals that cause those feelings are now the result of OM. And in the process, there is a group of chemicals that stimulate the urge for mating. These chemicals also help to suppress the urge to bond and even remember the past source of those feelings. You, as Cat said, are in a fog. It is a chemically induced fog that is stopping you from acting rationally and making you run on pure emotional energy.

You say that it was you who tried to fix your marriage in the past. You say it was you who put in the effort and your husband didn't change. What you describe is that your husband was not meeting some Emotional Need that you have in the way that you needed it to be met, something OM seems to be able to do at will (partly because his only investment in the relationship is making you feel good so you will make him feel good in return (not a judgment, simply a statement). All the time you tired to tell your husband that something was missing, he seemed to turn a deaf ear. Nothing could stimulate him to do as you asked.

That pretty much describes how ALL affairs begin.

My guess is that this affair of yours would be just the stimulus he needs to change his thinking and his actions.

It worked for me...

Just a guess here, NG, but I would bet you could come up with nothing to justify your affair with OM and the destruction of two marriages that almost anyone who has been through this before could not counter and that you couldn't even come up with anything someone on MB hasn't already heard before.

The grass is greenest where you water it, NG. If you put as much energy and emotional investment into your marriage as you do trying to make the affair something it can never be, that is RIGHT, you could have the marriage of your dreams and a husband that would knock your socks off by his shear presence in your memories.

Before you dismiss that last paragraph of mine consider this. Have you done anything "special" for OM that he was so grateful for that he was willing to do anything for you in return? Has he done the same for you? If you did the same things for your husband, would he sit in front of the TV and say "that's nice, Dear" or would he worship the ground you walk on? And what if he did the same for you? I'd bet he once did...He can again...

And so can you...

But not as long as you are in contact with OM, if you will not (not the same as cannot) cut off all contact with him, I am afraid that you will never truly know what it like to be married to a the same person for life and have a growing relationship with someone who cares about you.

Before you give up on this site, read the basic concepts linked above and also read this: Inside The Wayward Mind. This thread was begun by a Former Wayward Wife, who arrived here feeling and posting very much like you are doing right now. You can also do a search for Mrs. Wondering and read some of her early posts and see where she is today.

As much as your affair feels unique, NG, it really isn't at all. It is in fact a common everyday garden-variety affair. The only thing unique about it is you, your OM, his wife and your husband.

Mark

Not at all actually, it's like she's a completely different person, threatening to destroy his belongings, running away with the kids, etc. Not exactly the thing to want to be around. I pushed him back to his wife on a few occasions, so they could try tofigure things out. I don't know if they did try, or what.



He could care less if I was here or not. He abandoned me in a city 3 hours away to find my own way home. The only time I was needed was when He couldn't do something by himself. other than that, I was pushed out of the way. I was threatened to be kicked out because things didn't go his way. So yeah, I'd say he turned a deaf ear.


Yes he has actually. on several occasions. and no it was not sexual things.



well, if it didn't annoy him at the time(that is, if i wasn't in his way) he might have said thanks. But for the most part, I sacrificed a lot for him. not just big things, little things too...I don't think I'll go back to him in any case... but....

You're not going to hear that divorce is a good thing on this site. We may be better off now, but it's never an enjoyable experience. Learn from our experience and stories. Most of us care and honestly try to help.

My personal opinion is that a person cannot truely be happy with anyone until they are happy with themselves. Read this site, look at things from different perspectives, learn to be happy with yourself, go to counseling to sort things out if needed.

And what would you say is the right way to act when your world has been destroyed?

Did you stay entirely away from him for 6 months with no contact of any kind so that his relationship with you was not interfering with possible recovery efforts?


See? It isn't all about sex, is it? But I'd bet you had sex with him. So it was about ENs of which sex is but one of several. And so you know, it ranks higher on OM's list than it does on yours in all likelihood, just as with your husband. It's also one of those things that are like air. It isn't important at all...Unless you aren't getting any.

NG, I feel the resentment in your posts. I really do understand it. It is one of the fuels that run an affair. Unmet expectations, lack of solutions to those problems and the inability to communicate the actual things we need from each other because men and women speak totally different languages when it comes to needs and expression of them all lead to resentment by BOTH of us in a marriage.

But do any of those things make having an affair, with a married man and destroying his wife's marriage and family RIGHT?

Please read the Basic Concepts and pay close attention to the sections on the Giver and Taker.

When we sacrifice for someone we love, we cause resentment over time. This too is covered in the Basic Concepts. Dr Harley has what he calls the Policy of Joint Agreement, abbreviated as POJA around here. This is how we stop the cycle of sacrifice and resentment from dealing a deathblow to our relationship. It allows us to not do anything uncaring or unthinking or hurtful or disrespectful to each other and stops us from causing harm to ourselves by keeping us from giving away our very selves in the process of doing even good things for the other.

My guess is that your husband feels that he too has sacrificed a lot for you. But none of that solves the problem, because all it does is mean that both of you have built up resentment over it.

NG, even if you never return to your husband, you should end the relationship with OM because it is the right thing to do. Destroying two marriages is not the solution to one failed one, for either of you...

There simply is nothing you can say that will make an affair right. It was a poor choice to begin it and a calculated choice to continue it. I know you weren't looking to begin an affair. No one ever is. The fact that you didn't intend to have one doesn't make it right. Falling in love isn't something that happens to us, NG. It isn't something we are helpless to prevent. It isn't magic that overwhelms us. It is something that needs to be nurtured. The question is, who will you spend the time nurturing it with?

Mark

NG:

You are getting very good advice here. This is not a judgement but a statement of fact: YOU ARE IN THE WAYWARD FOG!

EVERY wayward spouse(WS) does 2 things to rationalize and justify their affair and why they "can't go back" to their marriage and should instead be with their affair partner(AP):

1) The WS always scapegoats and bad-mouths the betrayed spouse(BS). The WS does this to themselves, to their AP, to their family & friends, and to basically anyone who will listen. The BS is always depicted as a horrible, unloving husband/wife.

2) The WS always "rewrites their marital history" mentally to themselves and all the above people. The marriage the WS is betraying is portrayed as irretrievably miserable--the negatives are accentuated and the positives are de-accentuated.

This is all done to bury guilt, avoid the truth, escape from the pain the WS is both feeling and inflicting, and to make it seem to be "OK" to have/continue the affair. Truth is, no marriage is perfect and no relationship partner is either. It is FOG, not REALITY.

Dr. Pittman ('Private Lies') writes than an adulterous spouse will convince themselves (and try to convince others) that "my marriage was destroyed and that is why I had an affair" when the reality is "the affair (can/will) destroyed the marriage".

When I hear waywards say these things, I wonder, if your spouse is so terrible and your marriage has been so horrible, WHY DIDN'T YOU LEAVE HIM/HER AND JUST GET A DIVORCE TO BE ON YOUR OWN? (i.e. without getting into a affair relationship first!)

WHY? Here's why--the affair is a fantasy escape from the reality of whatever is bothering you and you are in effect fence-sitting by hanging onto some elements of your marriage and some elements of your affair at the same time.

Egg Zack Lee!

Mark

Wow, it's like I'm reading my posts from MY wife

scary