piojitos, I don't know what more I can do here. I was just trying to give some background info. Does it change anything that happened? Of course not. All I'm saying is that I had my first conversation with my wife since this blew up, and I feel better. I'm going to lay low for a bit and continue to snoop and log.

You and others are banging me over the head saying your wife is 20% no, 50% no, 90% no, 99% no, 99.9999% cheating on you. I'm saying I HEAR you - Loud and Clear - 5 by 5!

WHAT MORE CAN I DO NOW?

If she's cheating and I confront now WITH NOTHING MORE THAN I ALREADY HAVE she'll lie and I'll get nothing more. I hear you that when her lips are moving she is lying. That's why I'm snooping right?

You and others are saying I'm fooling myself and I'm in denial. Ok, I hear you. You guys have experience, I just have the blind trust that is like a rope in the dark to me right now. I want to keep that trust alive a little longer. Is that wrong? Isn't that part of love? I'm still snooping, and logging and trying to be cool headed. I just want to hold the figurative rope a while longer.

Getting upset now won't help - my ship has already hit the iceberg. Now I just have to work to determine if the damage is superficial or if we have to abandon ship.

You are doing what you need to be doing. We just want to make sure that you aren't eating the ****edit**** that she is feeding you. You just posted an entire page of her ****edit**** story like you might actually believe it. We are just here to shoot down her story and make sure you are back in reality. What else do you need to be doing? Well, for one, don't show weakness. Don't listen to her BS excuses. You need to step up in this relationship and be at least her equal if not take charge. There should be no more business trips without you.

I think you are doing this exactly right. Lay low. Act as if you accept her story. Don't even broach the subject.
Then, if she is cheating, with your behind the scenes snooping, you'll find out what you need to know.

friday

"WHAT MORE CAN I DO NOW"

How about you have been checking cell phone bills?

How about that you have bought two digital VAR's for the house and her car to monitor phone conversations?

"Now I just have to work to determine if the damage is superficial or if we have to abandon ship."

I don't see you doing those things that I have mentioned. So your seach for the truth is " SUPEEICIAL ".

No one has told you to confront without evidence. Many others before you have been told to sit tight and gather intelligence first before acting.

Except they did not buy the nonsense story that their WW's have fed them. You refused to find the wholes in your WW's story. Or you can not find these evident lies. You then do not even deal with any of the individual points that were raised were your WW's story does not jive.

Your words only showed how you want to and willingly want to buy the nonsense she is dumping on you.

"1) I’ve lost our savings on the stock market. This has caused a lot of stress in our house over the last month"

This is a very telling statement. A lot of WW's that had their husband have financial reverses wound up having affairs.

How old are you? Unless your 60 or near your targeted retirement age the market will come back in time. Has your personal income level changed? Do you work full time? Who pulls in the most money?

FN:

Please read about "gaslighting" on this site.

Your WW, may, or may not, be involved in an affair. If she isn't, she is REAL CLOSE.

Understand something, I hid my A from my BS for 4.5 years. Yes, she says she finally suspected something after 3.5 years, but I hid my actions VERY well.

So, when I tell you about waywards making plans, its a voice of experience.

Nowhere in my earlier post were there any questions. Just statements. Helping you to see thru your WW's justifications and lies. I don't need to know what Org your WW works for or anything else. It doesn't change the basic premise of my post.

Non-Profits operate on a shoestring. I understand this. I help Non-profits with budgetsing and accounting. But I have NEVER been involved with one that would FORCE it's top executives and managers to stay in the same room because of budget constraints. Maybe they would let two males, or two females stay in the same room, BUT NEVER opposite sex.

OK?

And waywards? They will give you the plausible plan. The one that doesn't raise any alarm, at first. And if you accept, and don't CHECK, then they get the plan together that they really want, which in the time with the OP. Either for lunch, dinner, overnight or whatever. And if you see the cracks, and ask "what's up?" we start covering up, and inventing "issues" that caused that result. And, as the A gets deeper and deeper, and the waywards slide deeper into thier crazy world, the attempts to make it "look normal" to the betrayed spouse just get more and more outlandish.

This weekend trip that you described? Just the type of crazy effort I would have made to get me and OW together overnight. (In may case, that never happened, but, if I could have arranged it.... It may have looked an awful lot like the desperate attempts of your WW to set this one up.)

Now, we keep telling you that your WW is in an A. You don't want to believe us. You might think that we see A's around here behind every tree. I would like to say it's because there ARE A's behind every tree. But let's give your WW the benefit of the doubt for right NOW.

Let's say that she hasn't crossed the Physical Affair (PA) part yet. (what MOST non-MBer's think is real A) Let's assume she doesn't understand Emotional Affairs (EA's). She may or may not be in one with OM, YET. HE may not have reciprocated, or even realized the depth of your WW's attachment yet. (You state that you have no SOLID proof yet...) Where does that leave you?

With a WW that has VERY POOR boundaries and is VERY vunerable to affairs. She may not realize her vunerabilites. She may not realize that OM, who is recently divorced, is merely in it for some support. But suddenly, two weeks ago, something clicked for your WW. She had passed gate 10 on the 12 steps to infidelity road. SHE WANTED to get some alone time with him. No matter how convoluted the plans had to become, she was looking to be ALONE with him. Whether riding in the rental car, or on the plane, or sitting next to him in the meeting, or just lunch or dinner time. It didn't matter. SHE was going to make sure it happened. And THAT is wayward behavior. OM may just be an unwitting participant in something that your WW is trying to accomplish. It happens. But I don't think that he is that unwilling.

And that is the danger. You have a WW who is ready to fall off the cliff, and an OM who is there, ready to go, if not yet fully committed.

Either way, she needs to probably find a new job. Because your marriage is going to end up in the toilet if she continues to work there.

LG

Must travel with wife? With two small kids, a full time job and as the higher income earner, that’s not going to happen.

Somebody said something about never having seen someone completely innocent here before. Look at what you guys are saying:

“If her lips are moving…”

“Believe nothing she says….”

“We’re just here to help you not believe your wife…”

“BS, BS, BS…”

Now I’m not saying my wife is innocent. Judging by the number of people here that have experienced this I realize there is a good possibility she isn’t. But, there is no possible path to innocence here.

I’m monitoring cell records, keylogging, and am now setting up audio monitoring based on the helpful advice here. I’ve started one of Dr Harley’s books.

Now I think I’m going step away from this forum for a while. I appreciate the advice and help but there is such an undercurrent of negativity. I can’t change what was done and I’m trying to find out what I can going forward. I feel as though some are sitting there, eagerly waiting with their hand poised over some Gong Show like button. When they press it a big neon sign will flash “I TOLD YOU SO!!!” No offence, but I don’t find that helpful right now.

I’ll check back in a month or so (sooner if I find something). If I’m wrong and you are right I’ll accept your experiences more openly, but right now I feel I’m doing all I can to get to the bottom of the situation and the advice is less valuable to me.

See you in a month when you come back to ask "how do I get over the fact my wife had sex with OM"?

FWIW, I gave up being in the top 2% earnings bracket to save my marriage and my children's happiness. Now we struggle financially. So cry that river somewhere else!

FN:

Interesting that your 13th post was your "Goodby" post.

Telling.

You were here for a week. You learned alot.

Much of it troubled you. Much of it was a slap to the head.

Sorry. That's the way a DB can be sometimes.

Imagine what it would be like if your were your WW posting here?

I believe that your WW is teetering on the brink.

You may have been able to stop her from tumbling off the brink. I hope so.

But please. PLEASE, stick around. You may feel that you are getting beat up. You may get told "I told you SO!" I hope you can tell all of us: "SEE, I told YOU SO!" That would be wonderful. But in the meantime, there is SO MUCH we can be helping you with.

Helping you improve your conversation skills with your WW so that you can discuss boundaries with her.
Learning about her Emotional Needs, and what you can do to start meeting them.
Eliminating your Lovebusters, and recognizing hers. So that you BOTH can work towards minimizing them.

Really, I hope we are all wrong. If we did NOTHING ELSE, but open your eyes to the potenial threats to your marriage, that is a win all around.

LG

friday

"But, there is no possible path to innocence here."

BH's come here because their gut told them something was wrong.

Your story, the nonsense that your WW has told you have been seen here countless times before you showed up.

You are being the typical BH that lets fear control him from believing the that his gut was right.

I went over line by line and pointed out how your WW's story did not make sense. How the way she explained things only makes what she said unbelieveable.

You wrote her words her. Counter my points that I raised. Show me/us how your WW's lies are believeable, logical.

We don't want to make your WW look bad, evil. She is doing that on her own. We don't want your WW to make you look bad by being her fool.

Keep us updated.

Don't let a month go by if any more red flags appear before you seek help.

We want you to prove us wrong. I have been reading here since 2004. Based on what you have told us, and the stories of those before you. I think that the odds are not in your favor for us being wrong.

FN,

Please DO NOT STOP coming here. No one wants to find out that you wife is having an affair. NO ONE. Those of us here who have been through the pain of a cheating spouse would say or do anything to help someone either avoid the pain or recover once they have experienced it.

And the spouses who HAVE cheated and post here REALLY want to help you out. They know firsthand what it is like to CAUSE such pain and they don't want you to have to suffer if it can be avoided.

Remember that the written word can not always convey feeling very well. What you may be feeling as hostility or criticism is most likely just DEEP concern over the situation that so many have seen before.

There is just NO pain to equal that of discovering that your beloved spouse has become involved with someone else.

I would GIVE ANYTHING to have found MB during my H's affair. My gut KNEW something was going on, but I could not get my head around it. If I had had the advice given here, I might have been able to see past the gaslighting and get to the truth.

That's all any of us want for you. The truth. Whatever that might be.

Look up a thread called "Turns out to be worse than I thought" by KLD. She gathered evidence for MONTHS before she confronted her H. He was an expert gaslighter. I will try to look it up and link it for you, but I am really bad at that sort of thing.

As for snooping, I have 2 suggestions. Look at past cell phone records(at least 6 months back) and consider hiring a PI. A good PI can come up with the truth VERY quickly(again, KLD's thread).

One of the reasons this FEELS so negative is because it is. It is one of the MOST distateful, negative subjects there is. We are sorry you feel any need to be here at all.

Please stay. You are welcomed.

WH2LE