Well I've made up my mind.

I simply cannot confront my wife anymore with the intention of setting boundaries again since we have proven that she will break them, lie about them, and in the end have the nerve to either blame me or defend herself by stating "that was a promise I couldnt keep".

With the Bipolar & its effects and the fact that she will not seek help, the gambling, the lying, and the talking with OM, I have no choice here.

So,
my problem right now is I dont know how things would work if we separated.
I cant go anywhere, and she wont. The only way shed leave is if she took the kids and went to her moms, which I will not allow.

As much as I know she is going to lose her mind, I am going to ask that she just leaves. If she wants to be part of this family she needs to get her crap together. That means seeking help for her bipolar and her gmabling.

and IF, and I mean IF, she were to get help, then MAYBE there is a possibility of reconciliation in the future. But even in that case, there is more work to be done on the marriage.

On the other hand, I'm most certain she isnt going to leave, and she's likely going to have the nerve to suggest that If I cant put up with her BS than I should leave.

Langaan,

I haven't "talked" to you in a long time, so first of all I would just like to say hi and I'm sorry you are still in such a difficult/stressful and unhappy situation.

Do you remember when my co-worker came on to tell you some of what worked with her bi-polar daughter and SIL, was boundaries. Rock solid boundaries. But you have the concept of boundaries backward a little bit -


Boundaries are not something that your wife "breaks", boundaries are something that you set for yourself. Terms you set for yourself and your life, that if violated you will remove yourself from the violation/situation.

Such as I have a boundary that I will not stay in an R with someone who lies to me. If my spouse becomes a liar I will take myself out of the situation because my sanity is very important to me.

A friend of the family had a boundary that if her husband chose to drink again the divorce that she had stopped would begin again. She had a post-nup done up when she allowed him back in the house and stopped the divorce that he signed stating he would forfeit the house, would leave voluntarily and allow the divorce to go through non contested should he start drinking ever again. It worked for them, too, btw. (he has since passed away but he never did drink again and they were happy the last years of his life)

These are just some examples.

Can you consult with a lawyer to see what your options are. I know you are in Canada and it is different there with respect to separation, kids, etc.

You really need to determine what your boundaries are (what you are not willing to allow in your life, live with, etc) and then figure out how you will honor them.

She should not have access to any family money, as a gambling addict and a BP sufferer. That's really just a no-brainer. Also, as a wife and a mother, she should not be going out several nights a week, that it is to a casino is just that much more ridiculous. But wives and mothers (husbands and fathers) do not go out several nights a week without their families. That is just wrong and not conducive to a good marriage or good parenting.

My co-worker's DD agreed to have no access to any family money, to stay on her meds and keep getting treatment. She wants what is best for her and her family so she agrees to her husbands rock solid expectations. But she is not wayward and your wife has that added non-family, self-indulgent, self-centered mindset.

Ark explained boundaries this way -

She said that her husband had mentioned on more than one occasion that he would never live with a smoker again and although she used to really like to smoke and sometimes wanted to now she had no doubt in her mind that if she started again her husband would take up residence elsewhere.

It wasn't something they power struggled over or fought about.

One of the problems Langaan is that you don't honor your boundaries and your wife knows this all too well. Probably because you have never had boundaries (and you are not alone here).

So figure out exactly what they are, what they absolutely have to be to protect yourself, your family, your finances, from her addiction and illness and then figure out how you will honor them when they are crossed/violated.

Thanks weav. good to hear from you again. And yer right, i was looking at boundaries a bit different.

So, we talked last night, will get to that later...
for now lets talk more about boundaries.

I had thought before your post that boundaries were something I set for her.
So for clarification, once i set such boundaries, do I tell her the boundaries and the consequences?

here are my boundaries going forward,,,

I will not stay married to someone who lies to me.
I will not stay married to someone who refuses treatment/help for ilnesses or addictions.
I will not enable my wifes addictions and/or destructive habits.
I will remove my children from any and all emotionally destructive situations.
I will not stay married to someone who continues in any type of relationship with other men that makes me uncomfortable and/or unhappy.
I will not have my children exposed to the symptoms of any ilnesses without explaining the ilness to them, and taking the necessary steps to ensure the effect on them is minimized.
I will not allow decisions that effect my children to be made outside their best interest.


now,
as far as our talk yesterday;
- she said she still doesn't understand why talking to OM is any different than her talking to other male friends of hers
- she initially lied about the extent of gambling, then after I told her i knew she got quiet.

I told her that there will be separation if these things are not correted. she left, but did tell me before she left that she just wanted to let it sink in because she didnt want to respond yet because we both know it will be out of anger.

later that night,
she was upset that I basically said these things need to be addressed to save the marriage.

now,
in reality we are at a point where she will do whatever i ask her to do, but only to prevent me from leaving.
she literally said she just wants to do what I think needs to happen, even though she doesnt agree with what I think needs to happen.

her gambling...
well get this, she beleives she her gambling will be corrected if her debt disappeared. heh

by the med of the night she said she will make an appointment with her pdoc.

i then told her, "we were at this point 2 yrs ago, you said youd see a doc and go from there. Here we are again 2 yrs later, youve blamed me for your problems, youve told me that I "convinced" you you had bi[polar, you have lied repeatedly and you have been lying the entire time, so I need to think about this. I am not going to just wash this away assuming doctor will correct all"


so my intentions are to see her pdoc with her, expose gambling and other symtoms so he knows whats going on.

also is to show her my boundaries, and tell her that I cannot show her how to meet them. They are simple boundaries, and they are my boundaries.


thoughts?

oh, and yes, if she breaks a boundary, I will separate her.
I have talked with lawyer, options are not great, but what do ya do.

Definitely go with her to the doctor. I would also take her with you to visit any and all family and friends, and tell them the same thing, and ask for all their help to keep her on the right track. Tell them that it's what you both want (in this case I would speak for her, but allow her to agree). At any rate, you will let them all know what your boundaries are, and ask for their help.

Other thing, I like the kinds of boundaries, but I see a lot of subjective decision-making in there. As in, you get to decide what's right and wrong for the family, and she has no say. Don't see that working for long. You need POJA on these things. If necessary, spell out exactly what would constitute breaking the boundaries, and have her to agree to it in writing. A contract. Don't make it vague, or she will just argue you out of leaving. "I didn't think you meant THAT!"

Tell them exactly what? The details of the boundaries? I totally agree with this, as to reduce enabling and such, as well as the simple fact that they will have a better understanding of how to keep her on track. Im not sure if the whole thing would fly with my wife though....



I will not stay married to someone who lies to me.
I will not stay married to someone who refuses treatment/help for ilnesses or addictions.
I will not enable my wifes addictions and/or destructive habits.
I will remove my children from any and all emotionally destructive situations.
I will not stay married to someone who continues in any type of relationship with other men that makes me uncomfortable and/or unhappy.
I will not have my children exposed to the symptoms of any ilnesses without explaining the ilness to them, and taking the necessary steps to ensure the effect on them is minimized.
I will not allow decisions that effect my children to be made outside their best interest.

how can I re-word these ones so they are not subjective, and clear...

Yeah, I'd tell W that "I want our marriage to work, so I'm going to make it as easy as possible on us. Just like when someone is dieting, the family needs to know so they don't feed him doughnuts, we need the family to know that we're trying to get this all worked out and we could use their help keeping us on track with our plans." (see how it is about both of you, not her?)

let's see...
If I find out you have lied to me, I will arrange for a divorce.
If you stop attending whatever treatment plan we agree on until such point as you no longer affect the marriage through your addictions/illness, I will arrange for a divorce.
If you try to get money for gambling or act out in any other way that enables your destructive habits (which cause harm to our family mentally, physically or financially), I will arrange for a divorce.
If I observe you resorting to gambling or ______, I will have you removed from the house legally and I will ask the courts to grant me custody.
If I discover that you are engaging in any type of relationship with any other man other than in an official capacity (pastor, store clerk, etc.), I will arrange for a divorce.
If I discover that you are not treating your illness and appear to be causing the kids discomfort or distress, I will ensure that the courts remove them from your care and grant me custody; I will inform them as to why this is happening - that you had the choice for recovery and chose otherwise.
If I discover that you are making any decisions that cause our children discomfort or distress and that are what any typical family would consider detrimental decisions, I will arrange for sole custody.
You have been accorded several chances to join me in resuming a healthy, happy marriage and family. I consider this your last opportunity to remain married to me and to retain custody of your own children. In other words, you are up to Strike 3, and Strike 3 will be grounds for divorce.

Thanks very much Cat !!!

so Im thinking of giving her this letter, exactly how it is written below:

I want our marriage to work, so I'm going to make it as easy as possible on us. Just like when someone is dieting, the family needs to know so they don't feed him/her doughnuts, we need the family to know that we're trying to get this all worked out and we could use their help keeping us on track with our plans by increasing their awareness of our plans, and therefore reducing further enabling.

Boundaries:
If I find out you have lied to me, I will arrange for a divorce.
If you stop attending whatever treatment plan we agree on until such point as you no longer affect the marriage through your addictions/illness, I will arrange for a divorce.
If you try to get money for gambling or act out in any other way that enables your destructive habits (which cause harm to our family mentally, physically or financially), I will arrange for a divorce.
If I discover that you are engaging in any type of relationship with any other man that it not either in an official capacity, or a friendship which I am comfortable with, I will arrange for a divorce.
If I discover that you are not treating your illness and appear to be causing the kids discomfort or distress, I will ensure that the courts remove them from your care and grant me custody; I will inform them as to why this is happening - that you had the choice for recovery and chose otherwise.
If I discover that you are making any decisions that cause our children discomfort or distress and that are what any typical family would consider detrimental decisions, I will arrange for sole custody.

got home last night, asked her how she was feeling (as I did several times throughout the day from work).

during the day she said she felt crappy, trying her best not to cry over all of this, etc...

when I get home, I ask her if she is ok. She says she doesnt know. She says she had a long talk with one of her friends who had came over for a visit, told her that she felt like she had a nervous breakdown the previous night (she was crying/trembling, it was bad, i even had to take her and put her in a warm bath to calm her down)

anyways, i asked again how she was feelling and what she was "thinking" about the whole thing...

get this...
she said she still feels like I wasn't letting her talk! when in reality, that means I wasn't accepting her "excuses".

for example, when I told her I knew she was talking to OM again, she said "I still dont understand why its a problem. I wanted to tell you but I knew youd get upset!"
So when I don't accept that, she moves into the "what do you want me to say" mode. And in result, accuses me of "telling her what to say: !!

so after she said she was still feeling "crappish", and she said it was because I wouldnt let her have an opinion, i asked her "what about this thing with the other guy"?

she says "i still dont know what you want me to say" !?!?!?!!

Ive read many stories on this website, and I cant remember any of them being caught in this spot where the wayward simply refuses to accept her wrong doing, and refuses to listen to ANYONE who tells her otherwise.

everytime she sayd "i dont understand why its a problem" or whatever, it hurts just as much as the fact that shes talking to him in the first place.

if I set the boundary for myself that I wont be in a marraige where she talks to other men like this, she MAY stop doing it, but will cleary state that its because "I am insecure and its unfair that she cant talk to him and I am being controlling"

even with the boundary, the simple fact that she doesnt UNDERSTAND the boundary and reason for it drives me up the wall and hurst. What exactly do I do about that?

right now i feel like i want her and I to go to counselling, and in that counselling I want to have this addressed. Yes, I want her to LEARN that what she has done and is doing is HURTFUL, and is NOT my insecurities..

oh, and she is obviously telling her friends and family just enough about the situation so they can believe that this other guy is INNOCENT and I am insecure. GAHH!H!H!H!H

well since I know deep down this will never change, and that Im beating a deadhorse, Im moving to the appropriate forum to figure out how to deal with the separation.


Thanks all of you for your help in the past 2 years, I wish I had listened to most of you in the beginning, but that's love for ya.

Thanks.