BF,

Glad you are seeing the light on the WS Fog.

I heard all of those things and more, I cried a swimming pool full (and I'm a guy), I wasted my time and exhausted myself trying to "convince her"....

I hurt like you do...I KNOW!

Ditto.


This is very true. Especially since you CAN'T convince him of anything. WS's can't be convinced. The next time you're tempted to convince your WH of something, say to yourself "It will be a more productive and satisfying conversation if I spend the next 20 minutes trying to convince my car to get better gas mileage."

Or how about if I try to convince my 11 year old boy that showering once a week is just not enough and that he has to use soap for it to count!

I'm not totally familair with your situation, but a couple of questions.

Have you wrote down a plan of action? These are a list of things YOU need to consider taking him back / letting him into your life completely. I think you should refocus a bit and realize YOU have the power. He screwed up. Once you shift your mindset to that... well, I believe you will see his actions change.

This will also allow you to not even consider his current stupid statements in your daily routine. What he says is really irrelevant to your decisions. You get to choose what you do and how you respond, not him. Love. It's so hard to do it right now, but you get to choose it.

The second question is more personal, and well...I'm not aware of the living scenario and such. I think he is in a different house... but, well... Are you still having sexual encounters with him? I ask this because the hinted suicide is a trick at manipulation. People that want to kill themselves do it. People that want something drop hints about it. Just my unprofessional opinion. It doesn't mean they aren't sick and need help...it's just normally motivated by another reason.

hang in there, it sounds like you are getting the hang of it.

Good point, RookKev! I do need to also think about what I would be willing to take from him to have him in my life. The trick is that I am in a "guarded plan A" which means that I am holding my ground re: boundaries and where I am, but I am not asking for anything in particular of him to maintain contact.
Sidebar: I'm sure you are all struck at times how the above sounds so foreign, when 4-5 months ago, I would never consider making those kind of statements about WH! He was my best friend! It was us against the world and now I have to think about how to respond to him, with barriers! I never needed barriers before!
Anyway, SF? Are you nuts!!! He doesn't want to confuse or hurt me and up until three and half weeks ago, OW was meeting that need anyway! Athough, if you have followed my other thread, you'd see that he also propositioned another friend -- cheating on OW!
I almost wouldn't mind meeting that need! I haven't had SF since August -- meeting his SF would at least I'd get one of my needs met at the same time!
But, I am a committed BS, so I need to continue taking care of myself and missing some of what I had in my marriage, because it is not there right now... If he were ill and could not, I'd be in the same boat..
Thanks for checking, tho, thats what I love about this site, is we encourage each other to think about things we might not want to.
BF439

It sounds like you are doing just fine.

This stuff is very hard. There is no way to get through it but by going through it.

You are so right -- there are no short cuts! Just as if WH was ill or addicted, it is just something I have to go through and I do not know the outcome! That part is hard for me, but I have to let go and just know its crappy for all -- how do I want to handle myself? I hope with the same class as T2L!
BF439

Think of him as addicted or ill. That really helps. Then it doesn't ruin your self esteem.

MY THEORY FROM MUCH OBSERVATION/READING (WORTH A GRAIN OF SALT PERHAPS)

Yes, Dr. Harley says ANYONE can succumb to an affair under the right set of circumstances and I do believe that no one is completely immune. Some, however, are definitely more likely than others. In my view, there are 3 types of people when it comes to marriage & vows & commitment & infidelity:

TYPE 1: These people are manifestly unsuitable for marriage and/or monogamy. They are the serial cheaters, the users, the philanderers, and seductresses. These people are "exclusive" in a R only as long as everything is "perfect"...and sometimes not even then. They look at promiscuity as almost a "right" or as a proof of their individual power. If you are M to one of these people, sadly, you should strongly consider cutting your losses and writing them off. As a man myself, I shamefully must admit that my gender is vastly over-represented in this group.

TYPE 2: These are generally well-intentioned, commitment-oriented, and even quite moral & honorable, people with strong romantic tendencies (whom are very vulnerable to the allure of "feelings" and "falling in/out of love"). Most of the WSs here on MB fall into this category. They entered their marriages for all the right reasons and with all the right attitudes. Something, however, breaks them down. Maybe it is some LBs, maybe it is neglected ENs, maybe it is unmet (realistic or not) expectations, maybe it is just a preference for fantasy over reality. They fall out of love with their S and in love with their new OP--all the FOG talk and behavior ensues and all of the commitment and values fall to the wayside. When a M is having its problems, these people (usually without even knowing it) seek affirmation & attention outside and affair with whomever shows it first/best. My guess is that, although both men and women are well represented here, women outnumber men in this category.

TYPE 3: These people are the realists and die-hards through thick & thin. Although ANYONE can potentially fall prey to cheating, this group is very unlikely to do so. They are content and secure in themselves and what they have in their life and, mistakenly, assume their S's are the same. If grave problems develop in a marriage, this group will do virtually everything possible to work it out...they completely reject the "grass is greener" viewpoint. These folks are far more likely to (in the worst circumstances) divorce and be alone for a while than to fall into an affair that leads to a divorce. I'd bet that most of the BSs here on MB who fight so hard for their M's under extremely trying circumstances, fall into this category...both men and women.


My 2 cents...

I thought more about this -- you are right about him wanting something. I'm not sure if its sympathy or if he wants me to just give him what he wants (a divorce and be his friend). More likely the later.

BF439

bf439


I looked at your WH's email.

From what I see there, I get a little bit of insight.


He's basically telling you that there is a crack in the door (he hedges here and there - don't be fooled), but that he "believes" he has his mind made up.

But - there is a but - he is looking to you for sympathy. Yep, sympathy. He's crying about how hard this is on poor little WH, nobody really appreciates how tough this has been on him, because NOW he doesn't have OW (that fantasy is tarnishing somehow - she is brushing him off) AND he isn't sure he wants to be married.

The thing here is this: he is feeling pinched because what he wants is no responsibilities. That's the deal. He wants some single-life time, BUT, he's whining back to you about also wanting the "image" of being a good dad.

His whining focuses on having lost the image of the good-guy, good dad, good husband image by what he's done. He wants that back........only.........he's got this fear that if he comes back to THIS marriage, he will NEVER GET THAT BACK. Thing is, he thinks the bridge is burned.

Lots of people think that.

Also, he sees himself as "unique". "I'm different, the MB plans and approaches will not work in my case, because I am different from other people." Okay, fine. Tell him that he is unique, but that he can use plans that are shaped towards similar goals - perhaps his EN's are not within the same scope as MB, but he STILL HAS EN's, correct? Then IDENTIFY them, and work with you on those - because the basic concepts still stand. He went to OW for needs, and those needs were met with her.....what needs???? Maybe Harley's list didn't include your H's?????? Maybe your H's needs fall outside the basic framework.

Ask him, and ask Dr. H.


Also, his letter really is QUITE TYPICAL. So much so that I could have written it BEFORE HE DID, sent it FOR HIM, and he would have believed he wrote it himself.

It follows the script. He believes it whole-heartedly, except that the underlying feelings are that he is very scared, worried, and doing lots of thinking about what he will lose.

Be thinking about Plan B.


SB

Schoolbus, I totally appreciate your insights -- you are so right on about WH! He has built a reputation professionally and personally of being the great guy -- champion of the poor, wonderful husband, etc and now we find out that he is just as human and vulnerable as the rest of us! I can see through this whole process, knowing him so well, how hurt he is, but his fog makes it nearly impossible to communicate with him. It doesn't help that his mom buys into the fog as resolve. What kills me is I think he knows deep down that I will have him with all his faults -- thats what I signed up for. I love him not because he is perfect, but because he is imperfect. Does that make sense?
I'm not sure what to do with the insights you put out there so well, but I'll think especially long and hard about the meeting EN -- even if his are unique and unlike MB's list.
I feel like I am in a modified Plan B, because, although we are communicating via email and text (and I try to keep it light-hearted, and always end with an "I love you,") I really have no desire to see him. That makes it hard to meet EN's, but I just need space from him.
I'm trying to gauge if my reserve is running low and I need to move to plan b or not -- I don't know because every day is different, but PB looks better and better for me each day...
Here's another thought, Steve Harvey said he'd be starting to get pressure from all sides -- I wonder if his contacting the mediator is because OW has set limit of he must be divorced to have him? That would make sense in terms of her need not to look like a skanky home-wrecker! oops! Too late!

BF439

Listen to schoolbus - she always gets it just right.

bf439,

Yeah, once you get that skank stench on you, it doesn't rub off, no matter how much scrubbin' you do!

Yes, they were great insights! I love being able to totally be free here to name-call OW for what she has done! WH still is trying to paint her in the same light as he is for himself (and I'm trying not to LB), but there's only so much of the "yes, we both erred, but we are in love" crap I can take! I actually had to sit in a couples session while he said, "OW and I love each other" -- I about vomited...
I hope there are cracks in paradise, because it looks like a pretty cracked paradise to me!
BF439

I have a suspicion that WH is familiar not just with site (which I told him I was glad he was checking out MB -- it wasn't a secret), but he may be checking out my posts.
Any suggestions when this happens? I'm not giving up the support here, and its not like I have a secret plan...
Any thoughts? Does this come up often?
And, if you are reading this, WH (big shout-out to T) I'm glad you care enough about me and out marriage to learn more about how infidelity impacts people.
BF439

Gee, BestFriend's WH,

Aren't you surprised and also angry to find that you are not as unique as you thought? And that your affair really does follow a pattern? If you read the information here, and read the books, it probably does make you very angry and your reaction is likely, "This applies to other people. It doesn't apply to me. I am different, because I REALLY AM in love with the OW. I'm different because I really do think differently and act differently from other people. People do not fit the mold that is described in the books, and there is no way that anyone could outline what happens in all affairs into a nutshell like that. Each relationship is unique, and therefore MY relationship is unique."

Okay, I will grant you that your affair has qualities that are different from other affairs.

However, I will also point out that it also has followed many of the same "script" lines that most of the affairs we here on the boards see, too. To name just a few:

1. You kept your affair secret.
2. You lied to your wife about the OW.
3. You lied to others about the affair.
4. You did not like exposure of the affair.
5. You believe that your affair is unique and special.
6. You do not believe that MB plans can assist in making your marriage stronger.
7. You have stated that your dissatisfaction with the marriage pre-dates the affair.
8. You have rewritten the marital history to justify your affair.
9. You say that you don't want your wife to meet your emotional needs.

The list likely includes that you have told your wife, "I love you, but I'm not 'In Love' with you," although that has not been reported here that I've read.


See, these things have been said countless times by other wayward spouses. Just read the threads - we see them over and over and over. Your story is similar in nature to the other affairs, follows the script, but with a few different twists.

Unique in the details, but following the outline just the same.


Here's the truth: marriages encounter difficulties. They just do. And you CAN get through an affair and recover your marriage. The grass isn't greener - in fact, only about 3% of affair marriages make it past 5 years. 3% - that is less than the going rate of second marriages overall. Affair marriages just don't make it.


BUT - over half of marriages encounter affairs. Most of the marriages recover and go on.

Mine did.


What it takes is for both spouses to understand their roles in what made the marriage reach the state it was in immediately prior to the affair. You had a role in that marriage - what was it? Why was it in that state, and why didn't YOU do something about it? Start there, because your wife is here working on her part in it.

As soon as you go to work thinking about why your marriage reached that point - the point where YOU DECIDED to have an affair - your focus will shift.

And you will understand that the decision to have the affair was YOURS.

You could have chosen differently.
You could have acted differently.


You still can save your marriage = you still can.

You are reading here, which means you are interested. Drop everything and call your wife.

Drop everything, means drop the OW too.

Go no-contact with the OW, and give it three months of NC. See exactly how far you are by then.

Clear your head.


SB

But SB, the affair had nothing to do with the problems in the marriage.

I'm sure you've gotten that one, BF, right?

sdguy08, you are so silly! Of course the marriage was over when the affair started! Hell, he'd been trying for 13 years -- as soon as he said "I do" he must have known what a terrible mistake he had made! How he must have suffered through all that support, love, excellent sex (and I am good...), as well as three children that I gave birth to au natural.
Well, he has seen the light now!
Anyway, all kidding aside, I know that I am not a perfect person or spouse, but I cannot work on my marriage while serial-cheater whore is still in the picture (can I say that here? If not, some one block me before I vent honestly again!)
I do hope WH gets a chance to check out Schoolbus's post -- it is sooo welll written!
Sometimes the best support is well-place, dead-on sarcasm!
BF439

LMAO-Brilliant!