Can any of you tell me why I have to spin my wheels around my H (who by the way is still involved with ow, even though he won't admit this) do everything for him, clean house, cook for him, basically turn myself into a pretzel for him and he, as the betrayer doesn't have to budge? How is this fair? How do you all do this NO LOVE BUSTING thing, and feel good about it? I'm so angry, hurt, upset, decieved, that I've become obsessive. I read how some of you lose weight when you're stressed, but gosh for me, all I do is feed my frustration. I hate him for the continuing lies! <P>Can anyone share some thoughts on how to handle a husband who obviously doesn't want to work on a marriage? <P>My heart still prays, but my mind just laughs...

I am currently going through the same exact feelings that you are going through. My W had an affair because she says that the OM met the emotional need of having someone to talk to her and listen to the things that she was interested in. She now admits to being very selfish and that she should have handled things differently, but that still doesn't take away the pain. She also admits that while she still loves me, it isn't the same as it once was. No matter hard it is for me right now, I must do all that I can to meet her needs and hopefully the love that she once had for me will return....I guess that's why the betrayed have to do what we must, we must rebuild the love that our spouses once had for us.

TL, sooner or later you are going to have to break the cycle. He will do as he pleases as long as you let him get away with it.<P>Standing up for yourself and deciding what is best for you in life is not lovebusting. <P>Taking this stance helped me not waste so much time obsessing over it and going nuts over things I had no control over.

Fighter:<P>Are you telling me that I will have no control over his eventually wanting a divorce? One thing I can be sure of is that I believe he will wait for me to make that first move - do the filing of the papers, initiate the big "D" conversation. It will alleviate him of any guilt that he was the one who left the family.... I would like to say that I'd do everything I could to stall a divorce, or make his life during this process completely miserable, but what would that do for me? Nothing. And yet, in the end, he will get exactly what he has been working on ever since his affair began last Nov. '98. It makes me sick to continue, over and over, to re-live this nightmare. I can't stop imagining them together. And there's nothing I can do to change his mind and make him really work on saving this marriage, is there?

TL, you do not have any control over him or anything he does. If he really want the divorce, he will get it. <P>The only person you have control over is you. THat is why you need to decide what is best for you and what you want you future to be. <P>That is why you need to take this time to build yourself up to face this challenge that life has thrown your way. <P>At this point your husband has complete control and has his girlfriend. You need to retake that control of you from him so that you can be in the drivers seat in your life.

TL,<BR>Your question applies to either betrayed or betrayer, depending upon which one wants to save the marriage the most. Ideally, your husband should end it with the OW, recommit to your marriage 100%, and do whatever it takes to regain your trust. I believe that trying to meet the spouses's needs only works if they can tell you what the needs are, and they make some effort to meet yours at some point. People here talk about Plan A and Plan B. Sounds like you are trying Plan A (trying to meet his needs, etc.) Sounds like fighter is recommending Plan B, and that is ok too. Plan B is for when you are fed up with Plan A and you are in self-protection mode. I agree with Fighter that there is nothing you can do to force him to do anything. There are also ways you can protect yourself, your assets, and your children (if you have any). A legal separation would do this without you going through a full divorce.

Hi Student, glad to see you back here. what is new? Last ime you posted, your X was being nice to you. Any changes?<p>[This message has been edited by fighter (edited August 18, 1999).]

TL,<P>I know EXACTLY what you are going through except I'm a guy. <P>It's a decision you make. I decided I wanted to salvage my marriage and I was willing to do everything I could to heal the years of hurt that developed between us. I could not walk away without giving it eveything that I could. The right thing to do is seldom the easy thing to do. The process is long - very long - and your decision to keep going will be questioned often.<P>It is NOT fair.<BR>You don't feel good about no lovebusting when you get trampled with daily rejection - but you keep the end in mind.<BR>You have every right to be angry, hurt, upset, deceived and obsessive - it's natural.<BR>We all hate the lies, and the deception.<P>The way I am handling things is this:<BR>1. My W and I drifted so far apart, I had to become her friend again before I could hope for any type of marriage effort. I started talking to her a lot. I found conversation to be her primary need.<BR>2. I changed my habits. I found that not only did she not like who I was, but I didn't like who I became. I worked on me. I was determined to be a model H in every way she would allow me. If she REALLY wanted oout, I was going to show her what she was going to be missing.<BR>3. I pray a lot. Who better to help you throught this that Christ Himself. He will not abandon you and He will direct you. He also helped mold me into the very different man I am today.<P>TL, it is imperative to find out what your H's needs are and try and meet them. If he is still home, then you have a tremendous advantage over the OW. If you haven't confronted him yet, then you need to determine when the best time is. The book "The Monogamy Myth" was my resource for doing this. You develop a Plan A to win him back. You give it six moinths to a year and monitor progress every 3 months or so. If you don't see any baby steps back to you, then you go to Plan B. <P>I know it's hard. I know it isn't fair. But, one of you can bring the two of you together. I feel the reward will be sweet, and your efforts will not be in vain.<P>Hang in there and take one day at a time.<P>SHA<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved. <BR>

SHA - <P>At our last counseling session, my H pointed out to the counselor that I would find a negative to any suggestion he might have. His example was "instead of overeating so much (I admit to being approx. 80 lbs. overweight) why don't you exercise? To which I responded, <BR>I don't have time. Several options were pointed out to me. Walking, etc. but I did find a negative response to every suggestion. I know I do this for alot of things. I'm so far into this obsessive place of wanting to know every detail about this ow, that I can't think about anything else. My H then told the counselor that he didn't want to come back to the sessions because he was getting nothing out of it. Tomorrow, Thurs. we're supposed to go there again. He told me that he'd go only if he could go by himself, that he has things he wants to say outside my presence. I think if this is "couples counseling" that I should be privy to anything he has to say. See what I mean when I feel like I'm making the sacrafices? Must I always go along with what he wants? Even though he was/is the betrayer? Purgatory, that's where I am. Or maybe this is hell..

TL, we also make sacrafices because we are the ones that are still in love and still working in our relationship. The betrayer is the one that constantly reassure themselves that they are doing the right thing. In order to do that, they do no work to maintain the relationship.

TL, <P>I don't think your H requesting to go to the counselor on his own is out of line. Please keep in mind that he needs to work on himself BEFORE any work can be done on your marriage. <P>I hope your counselor is a good one. If so, then perhaps the counselor can dig into your H's REAL internal issues. Seeing the same counselor on your own as well would help too. I think you both have hurts that need attention before the marriage can be worked. <P>Encourage your H to keep going. I think you would want him expressing his deep down emotional problems to a counselor instead of the OW. Again, if the counselor is a good one, he/she will know when to bring you both back for joint counseling.<P>Also, have you read "Give & Take" by Harley? I think your giver is pooped and your taker wants their fair share. Harley helps explain how to resolve this conflict that is going on inside you. It's good reading.<P>Hang in there.<P>SHA

Fighter & SHA:<P>I know that I shouldn't think so negatively about his intentions about solo counseling. My gut feeling is he wants to tell the counselor how much in love he is with this OW and that he wants to leave me, but also, wants to spare himself any guilt or pain. When does this knot in my stomach go away? Does it ever? He took the counseling appointment as an opportunity to "confess" his indiscretion once before. What's to stop him from telling me, again in front of a counselor, that he wants a divorce?

did it all. Jumped through all of the hoops and still had my tongue hanging out. And, I weighed 92 lbs. Horrible. It is not about you, honey. It is about him. and who he is.<BR>If you want to lose weight to make you happy, then go for it. But never for him. Just for you. You need to nurture yourself right now. And I agree that you need to protect yourself. Have you seen a lawyer? A seperation is not a divorce. Take care of you. Right now it may be impossible to sort out how you feel. Is it love, fear, pain, anger and how much of each? You will know later. But, you have got to take care of yourself. Now. Get a facial. Get your nails done. Whatever. <P>

UBU:<P>Have not seen a lawyer, although I have threatened to do so. I have never worked nor do I have any other income besides H's paycheck. I know if I initiate a separation, he'll run to be with the OW, happily I may add. So, I will have been instrumental in giving him what he wants. Life keeps moving forward and I'm stuck on the day when he first told me about the affair. I just wish I saw even a slight effort on his part to demonstrate a desire to fix our marriage. This is the worst part for me. He shows no remorse for the affair. He has said he's sorry he hurt me, but being sorry is not the same as being remorseful. Okay, really, if he was truly sorry he hurt me, why is he still seeing her? I'm feeling very stupid.

Tired Lady,<BR>I also feel as if I have made all the sacrifices. All my W had to do was quit doing what she has known all along was wrong. Now I have to give her credit because she did immediately after discovery, but somehow it seems that is all she had to do. She has been remorsefull in her own way and she also continues to work at the same place. I am confident that there is no further contact, however I am the one that lives with the fear and the doubt. It has been 10 months for me and things are getting better so I guess my only advice at the time is to give it time to run it's course. I know that is extremely hard to do but if I can do it you can too!<P>All My Best Wishes!

DJ:<P>I'm glad things have worked out for your marriage. But you at least had a spouse who was willing to stop contact with the OP. My H is still very much denying everything, including his still being with her. I can't make this marriage work by myself. I thought marriage was supposed to be a partnership. Seems to me like he's selling out his half of the relationship.

Tired Lady,<P>I realize I one of the lucky people on this board, but I believe it is worth the effort either way. Could I have been that strong? I can't answer that. I do know I like to believe I would have been. The vows we took were not in vain and if your H does not realize it you will not be at fault and will know in your heart you have done everything in your power to make it right. Don't think for a minute it will get any easier if he does wake up, there is still a long way to go.<P>I Wish you the best in all you do.

TL, <P>Do you have proof that he is still involved with someone or just a notion? If your evidence is irrefutable how can he deny it? <P>You alone can not fix your marriage problems you can only fix your problem in the marriage. Work on you. If you believe you have a negative outlook on life and YOU don't like that aspect of your personality than work to fix that. Figure out what your shortcoming are and start there. I think you are looking too far ahead and getting very depressed that your marriage isn't where you want it to be. If your like me and most others, your marriage didn't fall apart over night. It's not going to get better over night either. Look at this as a long journey of rediscovery. <P>You need to rediscover you. Ask yourself what do you like about you? What don't you like about you? What are you willing to change about yourself? What are you willing to do to save your marriage? Work out a plan. Take this time to get Tired Lady straightened out. Become the best person you can be. <P>Saving a marriage after infidelity will be the fight of a lifetime. You need to feel good about you, before you have any hope about your marriage getting better. Your H was attracted to you at some point in your life. What has changed? <P>I had to get me straightened out before I had any hope of winning my W back. <P>You can this TL! Small steps in the right direction over a long period of time will get you where you want to be.

This is my first attempt at replying on this bulleting board but here it goes. After a year of my husband moving in and out to live with his girlfriend, i've decided the only reason we sacrafice is because we love the other person. I have run the emotions from hate, to trying to hold on doing everything to make life better for my H. I have now had divorce papers drawn up with him being the one filing for the divorce even though I had them drawn up and have quit begging him to move home and have started going out while he has the kids. This seems to be the most effective route. He now spends more time at home and we are actually talking. My advice is to try everything, talking, doing things together without your children and if all fails give them their freedom. I'm hoping this freedom finally convinces my H that home is where he belongs. But I have resolved that he must make that decision I can't make it for him. All efforts are good efforts.<P>------------------<BR>

Tired: I am so sorry that you are going through such a heinous experience. You do have an extremely negative stance on life and clearly, your husband has told you repetedly that he wants you to change and either you cannot or you will not. If you cannot, you need some outside assistance. Your husband's blatant infidelity is something that you should not be tolerating and you need to make a decision about that - you need to stop bending over and taking it in the [censored] and tell him to get out of your house and be with this lady. . .she can have him. No one is asking you to bend over backwards to please this man and you are certainly not going to get any sympathy either; especially if you are not making any efforts to better yourself and pull yourself out of this "why me" mode. Look out the window and see what a wonderful place your world can potentially be. Go to school and take some classes, go back to doing things that you once loved to do before you were married, find a good self-help group and spill your guts out to them - you will find that you are very angry and playing the victim role won't suit you for much longer. If you don't want to file for divorce, don't - let him be financially responsible for that. You don't need to deal with the legal repercussions right now, you need to work on YOU. Stop putting all your effort into this lying, cheating, dishonest, mean-spirited man you call your husband and get out there and remind yourself what was so attractive about you long ago - you have forgotten what a great woman you are.