I agree, that wasn't IB to me. I can't imagine having to get H's input on each and every decision. That's just not logical. I think if maybe you pulled back some and started making a few more of these decisions on your own, it might be a relief to Jay. Which may fill his Love Bank. You never know.

Go ahead and let the carpet come. This situation is too messed up for you to take a stand on it. You need the carpet. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses. Accept the carpet, and let Jay know that you are going to sit back and see whether he protects the family by seeing the lawsuit through.

As for Thursday, my thoughts are, who cares what your house looks like? This is family you're talking about. Just make a quick joke when they get in about welcome to the junkyard or whatever, and let them know you simply didn't have enough time to prepare for a traditional dinner. Ask them where they would like to go eat, and say it's on Jay.

Both actions are you taking care of yourself, and yet letting Jay know that he's not going to be off the hook any more just because he chooses not to act.

I love it, cat! And jayne, if you let him know today what you're planning today, it gives him time to respond if he wishes. Like the tickets to the museum thing, it sounds like if he doesn't like your plan, he'll plan something else on his own, like catering or whatever.

You could gently put him on notice that when he does something like this without running it by you first, it is a big LB to you. Gaining at your expense. That what you had dreamed of in your marriage was the two of you working together as a team. That you are not going to repeat yourself. You are not complaining with no hope of resolution. That you are done with dealing with the consequences of this. Whether he responds or not, that you expect him to remember that you had this conversation.

He seems not to remember your conversations, right? You can put a gentle reminder right on the fridge, "We work together to find solutions that make us both happy." Just brainstorming over here. Take what you like and leave the rest.

I'm not complaining because I've accepted it for the most part, but he is extremely opinionated about certain things. Simple thing like where something should be placed. It took months of explaining reasons and imploring to get him to hang a mirror in the entrance way low enough so that people like me and my mom could actually see into it. (I am 5'5", not overly short, so I thought that was a reasonable request.) He had an AO at DS6a who had been closing the lid on the Q-tip container in the bathroom when he was 4. He had been proud of figuring out how to do it, and had adopted it as his "job". He was crushed, and I was heartbroken, that H yelled at him for doing something he was proud of doing that he thought was helping.

I'm getting teary-eyed, in a bad way, just remembering that.

I've gotten to the point where I feel the need to ask H for something as simple as can we keep the box of tissue by the sink instead of on the back of the toilet. That particular thing, I didn't ask because I felt silly feeling like I had to ask - so I just moved it. He moved it back. That happened a couple of times, now I've given up because to continue moving it is childish. Maybe I'll ask him about it but I can't believe I've turned into a woman who has to ask her H's permission on where to keep the box of tissues. And then he'll just say, "No I prefer it there." And that will be the end of his part of the discussion. If I continue, the discussion will be me trying to explain my reasons, justifying my reasons, trying to convince him. Why can't it ever be that he wants to please me? He goes around and does exactly whatever he wants to do. If I want anything different, I have to plead and convince. It isn't that sometimes people want different things, and it isn't a big deal so we'll do it your way sometimes.

Oh, the toilet seat conversation on the other thread... Your H's actually sometimes put the seat down??? Never ever ever, in my house.

Ditto foot rubs. That's actually an option for some people??? I think in our whole entire marriage I've gotten less than 10 back rubs. That includes the dating and honeymoon season.

I'm not complaining. Just trying to give a better picture, to show why certain suggestions just don't have any relevance.

Ok, I'll ask him if he'll be in charge of the turkey, with the stipulation that I don't like white meat so just a turkey breast is not desirable. But it has to be a turkey of some sort, for the kids. (He's Canadian, he doesn't associate Thanksgiving with turkey. Is that ok, or do I have to totally let him do it however he wants, if I ask him to handle it?

He suggested getting a duck. I don't want a duck for Thanksgiving. The kids have been making pictures of turkeys for two weeks, singing songs about turkeys, etc. I know that isn't the "meaning" of Thanksgiving, but to kids taking the turkey out of Thanksgiving would be like taking Santa Claus out of Christmas. Which I know some churches do. I don't want to.

He also suggested having Thanksgiving dinner on Sunday. He's Canadian. :RollieEyes:


Ok I'll try to say that.


Hmm, interesting suggestion. I'm not willing to do that when his parents are here. Actually thinking about it, I don't want to do it for fear it will escalate into him leaving little sarcastic notes himself. It's happened before.

Jayne, can you ask an American coworker to have you and your family of 6 over? You could offer to give them like $100 towards the food or something. I wish I'd have thought of that sooner Is it too late to invite my family somewhere?

Holy cow, I don't think so! :MrEEk: I've only known these people since September! You were joking, right?

Are you inviting us to your house??? LOL

I was brainstorming with abandon. It's supposed to get you thinking of ideas you hadn't before.

Like when you all gave me all those Thankgiving ideas. Discussing those with H, as two people working together to resolve an issue, we found solutions we both liked.

Jayne, could you solve your tissue dilemma by getting two boxes of tissues? If there's one where he wants it, would he object to you having your own, in your own place?

And if H is doing a turkey and is a n00b at it, tell him to try this, it's practically foolproof: melt butter and white wine in a saucepan and then soak a piece of cheesecloth in it. Drape the cheesecloth over the turkey, pop it in the oven at 325, and tell him to get a turkey with the pop-out timer so it won't overcook. He won't have to baste it or anything. Very good turkey.

(lol on the toilet seat. I like my toilets closed, lid and all. I'm training the boys to do it so their wives will thank me later.)

I don't think so. He puts all my stuff in a drawer, and only leaves on the counter things he wants on the counter. I suspect he'd remove the extra one to the cabinet. But that's a DJ so I'll try it and let you know.


That sounds good! I'm hoping he'll use the very expensive grill he just bought, freeing up the one oven for the other stuff. Would that work on a grill? The past few times I've brined the turkey. I don't think we have time for that anymore. It may be too late now for a frozen turkey to thaw, too. I wonder if he can find a fresh turkey. I have no idea how stocked the local stores are now.


Yes, I often think about the huge apology I'm going to owe my future DILs.

I think if you ask H to take care of the dinner, you should let go and let him make what he wants. If nothing else, he'll be exposing the kids to his culture, which is a good thing IMO.

fwiw, my mother went on strike just like I did, so we ended up with a holiday routine of eating out at Chinese food restaurants. Didn't harm us any; in fact, it was our little secret, you know? Made us closer.

My view is he can do that on Canadian Thanksgiving. I don't make him do 4th of July things on Canada Day, and I don't insist on American food on Canadian Thanksgiving. I go along with whatever he says Boxing Day is. The kids get plenty of Canadian culture, since we're usually IN Canada on Canada Day which is July 1st, which means we're also in Canada on the 4th of July. They've celebrated many more Canada Days than they have 4ths of July. They've drawn many more Canada flags than American flags. They've spent most American Thanksgivings and Christmases and New Year's in Canada. They've been to both national capitals. They can tell the difference between Canadian money and U.S. money - one has a man and one has a lady. lol

BTW I meant to ask, what would others have done with the museum incident? (Summary: H and I jointly decided to take the kids to the art museum in Ottawa, they were looking forward to it especially since DS6a says he wants to be an artist when he grows up. Then without checking with me, H bought tickets for us all to go on a long walking tour of the Parliament Building where you had to keep up with the guide, couldn't take a break, etc. It was miserable, and I ended up taking turns carrying the kids cus H refused to carry them when they got tired, even crying cus their legs hurt.) Would you have drawn a line in the sand and refused to go on the tour after he bought the tickets?

ETA: To try to justify changing the plans to the kids, he promised that we'd be back when he returned to pick up his passport. He promised we'd go to the art museum then, in a couple of weeks. He ended up having the passport mailed so we never went back.

I don't want the kids to be disappointed if we don't do what they expect on Thanksgiving. I want to build traditions and good memories. When I was a kid it seemed we often didn't do anything special for holidays. Dinner was sometimes an afterthought. Not so much Thanksgiving, but I don't want the kids to look back and think we didn't do stuff for special occasions.

They've been doing turkey things and pilgrim-and-indian things in school leading up to Thanksgiving. They've already had enough disappointments. I don't want them to build walls so they never allow themselves to get excited about anything.

jayne, I understand that, but I hear you spazzing out about this. What kind of holiday will they remember if their mother is embarrassed about the house, distressed that her in-laws are there to see the house, dad isn't helping with anything so mom is getting even more tense, and she is running around like crazy trying to accommodate a family meal in a house not prepared to handle one?

I was just trying to give you some ways out of it that would save what's really important (IMO) - the good memories of the family spending time together without any stress or unhappiness or resentment. That's why I brought up us going out to eat at a Chinese restaurant. Believe it or not, that is one of the top 5 good memories of my childhood - that we were getting to not have to stick with a tradition, and were kind of sneaking out for Chinese, when everyone else was stuck with turkey dinners.

This may just be me, but I also believe it's a good thing to teach kids to not be rigid about such things such that they end up destroying an event because they can't get it to line up to their expectations. IMO, that's a good thing to teach them, too.

Re: museum, I'd like to think I'd put my foot down, but you know how unlikely that is, lol.

I don't see what's so wrong with a duck? If you don't feel like cooking then let your dh do it all. Or pick just a few side dishes that you like to contribute. Find one thing that you must have to mean turkey day to you. For me that's candied yams with marshmellows. No one in my dh's family likes it, so I get it all to myself!

Also, do you have the tradition that guests bring something to the thanksgiving dinner? We always did, and that helps a lot in the amount of food you have to prepare.

Regarding the house, just sort out one room, put all the junk in the other rooms and have your dinner there. And you need to get over feeling that everything needs to be perfect for the in-laws. Concentrate on the fact that people are coming to see you and your family and not the house.

Breathe! Thanksgiving is the day to give thanks for what you have. If you try and remember that I think it will go much better.

I'd happily do a whole traditional meal, however, I don't have a minute to think about recipes or shopping lists or cleaning the house or doing laundry or building beds or anything until about 7 p.m. Wednesday night. And that's just because I canceled my Wednesday night class that otherwise would've gone from 7 p.m. to about 8:30 p.m. So I am taking SOME steps, the ones that seem feasible like canceling a class the night before Thanksgiving. But at 7:00 p.m. Wednesday night, there will be no shopping done yet. Nor a shopping list made.


The guests are Canadian, they have NO traditions regarding American Thanksgiving. They are driving about 14 hours, what shall I ask them to bring? Oh wait, I just remembered you can't transport food across the border. (I once was diverted to the cavity-search line in Toronto because I hadn't finished eating my apple on the airplane.)


I'm not talking about clutter. I'm talking about THERE'S NO FURNITURE because THERE'S NO CARPET! As in, where are the guests going to sleep?

Right now almost all the rooms are BARE EMPTY. There's NOTHING to move to another room.

Y'all, come on... I do NOT need the "Relax and enjoy it, it doesn't have to be perfect" speech. I *give* that speech. Last Thanksgiving I was the POSTER CHILD for that speech. Come to think of it, just about every Thanksgiving is a fun comedy of errors with me, with every adult in the house being recruited to join in the kitchen activities.

from last year, circa page 9 of this thread:


I am not dealing with wanting everything to be perfect. I am dealing with hoping it is not nothing. I am dealing with wanting to not think about it until Wednesday night at the earliest. I am NOT going to think about it until Wednesday night at the earliest. What it will be, it will be. But no one better blame me if they don't have a bed to sleep in or food to eat for Thanksgiving.

They're twins. That in itself means they learned to be less rigid than singletons right off the bat, from having to share absolutely everything from the moment they were born. But that's not all.

These kids have been bounced around so much, they were earning frequent flier miles when they were 10 days old! They had 4-5 different caregivers before I finally got them, when they were around 9 months old. They've lived in 3, no 4 different states and 2 different countries. In Canada they never had drawers for their clothes, usually they just had suitcases and laundry baskets. And cardboard boxes for night stands. They've had promises broken so many times I can see their faces close up as they say they don't care.

Wow Jayne, your mind is going a mile a minute and even if you dont have time for it, you are planning a big elaborate dinner. I stand by my other note to you that you, my friend, are a workaholic and see few choices in your life except:

WORKING, (work, childcare, big dinners, going to museums with husband, etc, etc)

PLEASING OTHERS (going along with the thanksgiving issue without even giving "going out to eat" a second thought, pleasing your relatives, etc,, etc

BLAMING YOUR HUSBAND (going on walking trips with crying children with your ignorant husband and then coming to MB and blaming him, etc, etc, etc, really he really does sound ignorant to me about some things, but that does not mean you have to do all the ignorant things he wants you and the kids to do, It also does not mean you have to have guests overnight when you have no food, no time to cook it, and no furnature!!! )

YOU ARE DOING WHAT YOU DONT WANT TO DO< LIVING THE WAY YOU DONT WANT TO LIVE< AND PLEASING PEOPLE YOU DONT WANT TO PLEASE>

I rest my case.....! (I can see this only because i was the biggest people pleaser in the world and now I am maybe the third biggest people pleaser in the world)

Stella, I agree with everything you just said.


I did try to look online to see if there's anything open for Thanksgiving. I'm not ruling that out. That doesn't make the beds though. One thing at a time.