Yes I have thought about blocking her cell phone usage from the home and I beleive I will do that. I have looked into it, but am not sure what the distance is. She would just go outside and use it. Last night went about the same. I came home cooked supper, cleaned the kitchen after supper, got the kids in the bath, while she set on the couch and watched TV all night. There is just no interest in the marriage/family from her. All of her attention and interest are elsewhere at the moment. that I guess is what makes it so difficult to try and work on teh marriage when there is not a willing partner. I don't know how to get her interested in our family again. I thougth after OM1 with everything she was saying that things would be different. But now she is acting just like she did with OM1, but has taken it even further under ground. I have noticed some credit card charges that she ahs made and has not mentioned it to me. I am looking for receipts right now. There is the concert that she has nto mentioned, and if I ask her anything or mention anything all she tells me is "I am not doing anything" or bulls!@#.

HF,

Your wife has already divorce you in her own mind. You can't just wait this out and expect to end up with a viable marriage. Living as if it is over between you is NOT going to stop it from being over between you.

If you want to save your marriage, make yourself a better choice to her than OM and get in the way of the affair.

Now when I say to make yourself a better choice I am not referring to in your own logical mind or even based on logic at all. I am referring to in the mind of a whacked out wayward wife who is acting lick a love sick school girl. So you have to beat OM at the level of the LB$. Meet her ENs, avoid Love Busters and get in the way of the affair in any way you can without making it a fight or demand that she can ignore and use to make you the bad guy further in her mind.

You don't have to convince anybody here that you want your wife. You have to convince HER...

You can't demand that she not see OM and have her like it or have her LB$ balance remain intact so don't demand it. Instead just impede the affair in any way possible...

EXAMPLE: Plan time in the evening when she would normally be in the bathroom getting her fix from OM via SMS to play a board game with the kids. Invite WW to join the game. If she refuses, the kids will pressure her till she joins in and she has no time for OM.

But even MORE IMPORTANT than not getting a fix from OM, she gets a fix from YOU instead.

I'm sure she has mentioned that she wants to be "friends" after the divorce. Without agreeing to the divorce, plan something with her as "friends." Include other friends in the mix (NOT OM - make it impossible for her to include OM in the activity.) This lets you spend time with her under good conditions (makes LB$ deposits) while keeping OM away from her at least for the time she is with you thus denying him the ability to make his own deposits.

If you do this enough you will edge him out....

Back to exposure...

You need to get her family on your side. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with them but you need to go to them humbly and broken and tell them that you love your wife more than anything else in the world and that you are fighting so hard to save your marriage and ask for their help in doing that. THAT has to be your tack. Accusing her of cheating and letting it drop with a thud is NOT going to get them to help you if she has already told them OM is her "friend." You don't have to change their mind by arguing your case. Show them by your actions versus his.

Which is something you need to remember in this if nothing else...

ONLY ACTIONS MATTER...
:twobyfour:
What you SAY doesn't matter.
:twobyfour:
What WW SAYS doesn't matter.
:twobyfour:
What WW's family says doesn't matter.
:twobyfour:
What OM says doesn't matter.
:twobyfour:
ONLY ACTIONS MATTER... :twobyfour: :twobyfour: :twobyfour:

It will not be anything you say that saves your marriage, only something you DO. :twobyfour:

It will not be anything your WW says that will destroy your chances, only something she DOES. :twobyfour:

It will not be something your FIL & MIL say that will make or break your marriage to their daughter but only something they DO that will sway her one way or the other. :twobyfour:

It will not be OM saying something in a smarter or more endearing way to your wife that will make her walk away from you for good; it will be something he DOES for her that will let him take your wife away from you. (Which he can do even if he doesn't want her himself, BTW) :twobyfour:

ACTIONS COUNT... :twobyfour:

WORDS ARE WORTHLESS... :twobyfour:

You don't need the right words...

You need the right actions...

Stop REACTING...

And start ACTING from LOVE instead of FEAR...

On another note. My W asked me last night when we were going to do Thanksgiving with my mom and brother. I had to tell her we are not doing anything this year. My mom has come to a point that she resents what my W has/is doing to me and the kids, and my brother does not want to be around her. My W also asked me if "we" were going to put up the chrismas stuff this weekend? "We" like she has a mouse in her pocket. I know who will be putting up Christmas decorations. Then she asked me if I was going hunting this weekend. Just more red flags with all of the questions about what I am going to do. She must have other plans that she is trying to develop.

what have your kids said about her new affair??

Have you asked her to leave the house?

I suggest telling her that you want a divorce. There is no need to continue this charade any longer.

hey Mark...you go with what works for you. What works best IMHO for BH's is for them to take a stand. I have seen it more times than not on these boards....the BH's that refuse to be disrespected are the healthiest ones. Allowing a WW to disrespect him like this is counterproductive to his recovery IMHO...and I base this on many a BH here over the years. More often than not, BH's that follow the Plan A model are NOT getting through to their wives. For some reason, it seems to work better for women than men.

So, you go ahead and give your advice..I will give mine. This is a serial cheater that should be kicked to the curb IMO.

I feel the same way. Why should it be my responsibility only to save the marriage. She is the one in the A if that is what it is. That is another problem her lack of responsibility. She wants/expects me to take care of everything while she goes out and does whatever she wants to do and that is not right. she has as much said that noone can tell me what to do and I never try to. I have aksed her why she is acting this way and why she believes that it is right to go out partying without me. She replies with I am 40 I am not dead, or you have your interest and I have mine and there is nothign wrong with it. I have acted and am continuing to act, but this thing with OM2 is very far under ground.

not every spouse here need remain with a women that has cheated numerous times. I commend you for what you have done in your own marriage after MULTIPLE affairs...but, IMHO, one affair is enough...two and bye, bye.

medc - I appreciate that post. The best thing for me at the moment is to talk about my sitch. Some days it makes me feel better and keeps it off my mind. In my mind I have kicked her to the curb. Emotionally I have dteached, but the love that I have for my W I still have. At the moment it feels like I am living with a bad roomate and I have told my W that. I still do not understand why if she is so un-happy and wants to cheat or be and act single why she want leave or file for D.

She is treating you like her father. And you let her. The only way things will change is if YOU make the changes and MAKE her suffer the consequences. Why the h*ll are you doing all the work while she watches tv? Why? What possible good reason do you have for letting her get away with that? Are you afraid she'll get mad at being asked to pull her weight and leave you for OM2? Then LET her! You don't really have her like this anyway!

If she's going to sit on the couch, do what I do. Get the towels out of the drier and dump them on her. "Fold the towels, please." If you cook dinner, don't fix her plate. Then tell the kids "Mommy is washing dishes tonight since I cooked. That's what's fair." Then DON'T do the dishes! Let the kids wake up in the morning and ask her why she didn't do her chore.

Take her phone away, jam the service, take her ticket and throw it away, and then sit down and write out a script that you are going to email or call to every one of the people you know who will give her hard times for OM2, and then DO IT! TODAY!

If you are reading here, you'll know that those who DID expose were so glad they did, and those who didn't expose ended up losing their spouse. It's that simple. Harley has tens of thousands of couples he's helped through this - he knows what works.

Time to man up.

We spoke about this before. Why are you allowing it to continue? Get her engaged. Ask for her help to do this while you do that, etc.. Disconnect the plug from the TV set (or do something more creative, so it looks like something's wrong with it until you have to "fix" it, and make sure it remains in an "unfixed" status until you apply your "fix" ).

And if she doesn't know about those purchases on the credit card, let her know you are going to cancel the card because no-one seems to know about the purchases, and CANCEL THE CARD.

Did you tell her WHY you were not doing anything with your mom and brother this year?



Yes - you AND her. YOU plan to get her engaged in the process. You could ask her to sort out the decorations while you put them up, for example. Do NOT start putting up the decorations UNTIL she assists.



Consider responding like this: "I'm not sure - what are you planning to do this weekend?", and then plan around HER response.
If she says "nothing", then suggest an activity that both of you can take part in and enjoy.

Enjoying doing things with her is very hard right now because I know what is going on. Everyone tells me to expose, expose. If you do not have evidence what do you have to expose with. They can always have the exccuse of we are just friends. If there is no evidence then her family will not believe me. As far as not doing anything with my family for thanksgiving I told her that we would just do it with her family this year and maybe alternate that way. I once thought things between us was going to get better, and then she started acting this way for the second time. When I confronted her with OM2 she told me that they were firends, and she could be friends with whoever she wanted to be. I told her that I was not comfortable with it, and then they took it way underground. She then made the comment " if I was going to do anything like that (A) she could nto stop me, and I could not stop her. No I can not stope her but I can catch her and then expose. I have a gola and that is to make sure this is an A and then blow it up to everyone that I know. I am sure with the PI report at how Friday went with OM getting in my wife's vehicle and them coming out of the office separately that they are tyring to hide it from people at work because I knwo a lot of people at work. I am sure after I told OMW that he has convinced her that there is nothing going on and they are getting more brave and will silp up enough for me to get what I need, to show OMW.

MEDC,

I know you think I disagreed with you but I didn't. I AGREE with you whole heartedly that he needs to quit living in limbo and force her into a decision.

I also agree that not every marriage should be saved.

I even agree that twice is two times too many at least in most cases.

The problem arises from the fact that I responded to HF's post and it appeared below yours and so you thought I was replying to what YOU said.

But since you brought it up...

The guys who tell their wives to choose immediately, especially those who have not discovered the affair until it has become deeply entrenched and kick them to the curb if they waiver...

AND save their marriages...

Are NOT in the majority here.

I don't suggest HF let his wife run over him. He is doing NOTHING to get in the way of the affair. He is letting her run over him

Throwing her out means he doesn't have to fight the affair any more.

Doesn't stand a very good chance of saving his marriage.

Separation is the last resort according to Dr H, not the first step. It seldom leads to reconciliation.

But HF hasn't even done the most basic steps yet. He isn't following the gentle way or Plan A to save his marriage. He isn't following the hard line. He isn't doing much of anything. He is sitting on the sideline watching the game as if he has a ticket instead of being a player in it.

If you want to compare hard line tactics to a more conservative approach, compare it to an example of someone doing the latter rather than someone doing neither.

It isn't the folks who choose to take a hard line that win. It is people who choose to do something.

I'm way too busy today to argue with you but if you don't have plans tomorrow I'll try to squeeze you in.

You might be surprised to know that we agree on more than you might think.

I just tend to start a few more nails before I start giving them all whack.

And I don't need a framing hammer to set a brad...

Mark

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I understand this. But the goal here is to "run interference" amongst other things - the more time spent with engaging in some activity with you is the less time that's spent dreaming about / texting to / talking to / doing whatever with / the OM.



Yes, that should be part of the plan if you wish to save your M, but not THE PLAN, understand? There's other stuff you need to do; other stuff that forms part of Plan A. Exposure is just one component of what should be a bigger plan.

And stop with the conflict avoidance already! You need to tell her the truth about why you won't engage in SF with her, why you are not going to spend thanksgiving with your mother and brother, etc.. You want her to stop lying to you... you should stop lying to her.

Just spoke with the PI. The video has been evaluated and OM is definitely in the car. With my W windows being tinted and the angle of the camera shots it is very difficult to see any kissing or hugging. Although there was a lot of head movement and arm movement. PI and I have agreed to more survellance next week and getting closer to the situation. what do ya'll think about my W making palns to go to this concert and not telling me about it yet or asking me if I want to go?

I think it's highly disrespectful towards you. Unless of course she is planning it as a surprise for you.

Why don't you ask her what she's planning to do that weekend? Or better yet, MAKE plans for the two of you that weekend, like going out to dinner, playing miniature golf, etc.. See how she respond to that.

HF:

Your WW was in that car, if not having SF, was at least into heavy groping.

You don't sit in a car for 25 minutes with someone who isn't your Husband, that has nothing to do with work, because your "Just Friends"

You have what you need.

Mark and medc are in agreement. You have to start doing something. They may propose differnet ways of getting there, but DO SOMETHING.

Exposure? Sure, you have more than enough and how to do it.

Interfere with her affair? Sure. Buy the thing that blocks the cellphone signal in the house. If she has to go OUTSIDE? Good. Do things that make her MAKE a choice. Text OM or participate in the family. MAKE HER make those choices, Then you document.

Your fear of getting her angry and possibly losing in court are unfounded. You have the information your need to support your case in court. And you WILL get more information. EVERYTHING at the cellphone companies can be subpeonaed. If there are 500 TM's a month, you get to see it. The court can get it. It will prove that your WW was NOT paying attention to the family.

A number of folks have given you chalk lines on the ground as to WHAT to do next. But you have to just start following some of them. Not in a haphazard way. In a way that makes sense to you, and helps you to your goal, whatever that is. Recovery, divorce, her out of the house, etc.

So please, start standing up. Interfere with her A that is going on in YOUR house. As a minimum, start making that more difficult. You will surprised at the lengths that your WW wil go to TM her OM. She will stand in the rain in te backyard. She will stay in her car. If she CAN'T do it in the house, she WILL go elsewhere and continue doing it. THat is HER choice.

You just don't have to put up with it anymore.

LG

.

HF:

I agree with MiM:


Include your daughters. Make it a REAL BIG DEAL. Have it planned out first, who, what, where. And then let her know. Watch her squirm.

LG