Now...

What was the question?

Mark

When do I stop believing that WH will EVER come out of the fog. And just get D and let G-d bless me with a new person in my life.

I KNOW how blessed I am.

My M.... when do I stop and move on....

When this is no longer true.


And that is something YOU have to decide for yourself. When that hope is no longer there and you've fought till you can't fight any more...

When you don't miss him and go whole days without even thinking about him...

When you believe that if he came home you wouldn't want him there any more because of what he has done to you and your family...

When you just feel like there is nothing more for you to do and can walk away with no regrets no matter what he does in the future...

When you can say, "My EX-husband" and mean him...

That is when you move on and never look back.

But only you can decide when that time has come.

Most would have quit long ago.

Many would have quit without so much effort.

Some would never have tried.

You have done well, Queenie. Accept that and know that whatever you decide to do next, you have still done more than is required...

Mark

I'm praying for guidance. I'm praying for what G-d wants from me. If I could do this I would. But I can't...

I can't say any of those things. Stupid me, still remembers the man I M, not once but twice. Stupid me understands the mind and actions of an addict.

Stupid me would still want a man home that even though was abusive, was a good man, but someone so sick that I want to support him to heal. Not fix him, but support him as his wife.

Now, G-d seems to have other plans.... I just wish I knew them...

When it's time, you will know...

Mark

(((Queenie)))

I just wanted to say how much I relate to your posts. My divorce is almost two years old and I still struggle with the things on Mark's checklist.

I kept hearing "Wait until your mind and heart are in synch". I didn't wait and I will always have that nagging "What if..." in my head. I am just not sure how reasonable it is to wait until you are actually relieved to be getting a divorce. No matter how peaceful and functional my life is now, I will always prefer to have kept my marriage intact. I will never (I don't think) be "happy" about the divorce.

Even after my exWH's affair ended, he was skirt chasing again and never seemed to even consider returning to his family. That was a painful blow. He complained about being alone when there was this family he had deserted that would have welcomed him like a puppy on a child's birthday.

I think that has been the slowest part of this for me. Getting to the healthy place where he would not be welcomed with open arms, but with a very cautious skeptism(sp?). I will not be second best again, I will not be the "because I was tired of being alone, default partner".

My ex is now living with a different woman, not OW and there is no telling how many were in between OW and this GF. But he never gave me a morsel of kindness, he has been nothing but a liability to my family since he walked out the door over three years ago.

His best friend once told me that exWH would NEVER admit he had made a mistake, NEVER apologize, NEVER show remorse. Best friend was right (exWH never sees best friend either, he dismissed everyone from his former life).

Do what you need to do so you can say that "I did everything I knew to do to save my marriage". That is my regret, I divorced against my better judgement. My lawyer told me that the judge would ask me if this is what I wanted and I lied and said "yes" through my tears. I was sobbing in the court room lying to a judge about my desire to end my marriage.

So I live with that regret even though exWH's behavior since then should make me relieved that I made that decision. (I was going to type 'the right decision' but I still can't bring myself to do that.

Maybe some day my heart and mind will be 'in synch'.

UGH

What can we do to help you come to that point?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{[JEAN}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Queenie,

Thank you for being so thoughtfu] of my situation. I would end your pain too if I could, but it isn't that easy. As much as I don't want my M to end either, realistically, I would have a hard time recovering at this point unless WH was the poster boy for remorse. We will both get to the place that God has intended us to be when the time comes. If we end up D'd, I'm sure that it will be a wound that never completely heals. How could it? The whole thing effed up our lives so badly that it would be impossible to totally heal from it. The scars will be there forever. The trick is getting to a point where we don't notice them as much.

And Plan B? I was not educated enough on Plan B. I looked at it as the way to end the A and R the M. NOT. It had the total opposite effect for my WH. In fact, he has been hostile and totally dark beating me at my own game. It's OK though, because Plan B had the intended effect on me. It gave me peace. Sometimes I think maybe I did the wrong thing in doing it, but as I look back I now realize that WH was never going to be honest with me about it all, and he was always going to try to cake eat. Who knows how far it would have gone. I hate to think this way, but whenever I watch 48 Hours I wonder. Too dark to go there. Sorry.

Jean, I will be in the same sitch - in front of the judge. What would have happened if you had said "NO?" In my case, since he filed I don't know that I have a choice. I will say "NO" but it won't matter. At least that's my understanding.

And Queenie, not sure about the whole dating thing. I decided that I wouldn't date until officially D'd. That could be a while at the current rate. I guess I'm just not in any big hurry. I see people out there trying on dates just like clothing. If you aren't sure what you are looking for, you can make anything fit. I saw it in my own brother. Twice. I won't make that mistake.

Just take as long as it takes. Sorry to say that some people can never get out of the rut an continue their lives. Just be watchful for that situation.

Much love to you Queenie...

Queenie - I don't post much, but I read your thread regularly and want you to know you've been in my thoughts many times over the last two years...

Here's a bit of Kayla wisdom that she learned from someone else's walk of life... Her little sister.

The wisdom: Be careful of the questions you ask, particularly "WHY ME" type questions when you feel your life lacking of that fulfillment. Because our soul always finds the answer somehow and that path is not a pretty one.

The experience: My little sister had two guys head over heels in love with her. The bad boy. and the good boy. They were best friends, and the only thing keeping the bad boy from juvie hall was the good boy's influence. They met, the good boy was in love with her almost from the beginning. The bad boy was full of himself. Didn't care about the good boy or the girl. He decided he could win her over. So he did.

She got pregnant 1/2 way thru senior year of H.S. They got married in a casual wedding. Good boy was still a good friend to both of them, but went and continued on the good boy path, so was separated by a two year stint serving G-d as a missionary. For a time, under my sister's influence, the bad boy seemed to change. By the time the baby was born, they were both going to church, and he was working a job instead of stealing from his employer. It looked like they were going to make it. On their first anniversary, they had a special wedding ceremony to make their vows more permanent.

Two months after that special ceremony, bad boy was back to bad boy stuff. Stealing from my parents, stealing from his employer. Chasing a 13 yr old girl and flaunting that relationship right in front of my sister.

Now to the point - the WRONG QUESTION to be asking G-d - to save the marriage, just because of the special ceremony. Or more specifically, "If G-d loves me, then why didn't He save my marriage?

My sister didn't dig into her faith. She wanted her faith handed to her. She didn't recognize the sweet little baby boy who adored her and my parents who took her in and protected her from more thefts and abuse from her bad-boy husband. She didn't or couldn't see the heart of the young man who loved her deeply and knew the person she was before bad-boy had wounded her - was still in there...

When G-d didn't answer her prayer the only way SHE would accept, she took a tail spin on life; their divorce was final on their 2nd anniversary. Drugs, alcohol. One boyfriend after another. She gained a bad reputation in a matter of months. Then the unthinkable happened - as if the rest of the story isn't traumatic enough. Her little boy almost died. Instead of coming back to God and recognizing that she had to fight for her faith, she spun out further, more drugs, abuse, abortion, and on and on it went.

Instead of counting the blessings that she had been given, she counted the one loss (and her x was such a loser, if she even once woke up from her raging at G-d, she would recognize that as a gift too). She recognizes now only the "loser" part of the equation. She doesn't get the message of love and being protected that I know was there for her to see, if she had lifted her eyes to it.

Even after everything she'd done, the good boy was still in love with her and would have taken her back in a heart beat. But sister was no longer the girl he fell in love with and I believe G-d moved her out of his way rather than have him follow her path.

Be careful of focusing on the one thing you don't have. Garth Brooks sings about unanswered prayers - to be grateful for them. Humbly accepting that G-d has a bigger picture in mind than we can see, is what inspired the 23rd Psalm as well as other sacred music. There's a poem written by John Henry Newman

You will feel the peace of this in time.

Ohhhh Queenie, you are so sweet.

Hmmm, I have come up with so many different things that could happen to help me "get over it". Finally, I realized that no external thing could happen, it would just have to take as long as it takes.

One thing I do remind myself, my exWH is NOT someone I would date, if I were in a dating mood. He has NOTHING to offer my family except a genetic connection and my kids think he's a fun guy. I can not say he would be a good leader for my family since he has not acted in a way that would lead me to believe that. He still has a negative impact on my family with his negligence to some of his grown up responsibilities.

So I have come to the conclusion that I am not upset about losing him as a man, I think I am just upset about being dumped. And then I ask myself, why do I care that this man whom I have no respect for doesn't like me??

It is just insulting, that is all, I will learn to live with that.

I do hurt for my kids, they are still negatively impacted and that will never change, but all I can do is be mindful of the negative impact of divorce and try to conteract it the best I can.

So, for you Queenie... do you have a mental list of things that will help you decide. Are there signs you are looking for. If the A ended and he moved on to another OW, what would that mean? Did you give yourself a 2 year minimum for planB? I am just curious how other people judge their readiness.

One thing that I did do. Several months after I filed (I was not in a hurry to get a court date), I did tell WH that I was dropping the divorce. It forced him to counter file. I needed him to take some action, not just be the guy who didn't know what hit him. So once he counterfiled, that did help, I had felt guilty for filing even though I did it to set up the temporary support since I was a SAHM.

If people really do just know when it is time, then I jumped the gun. Do I think it would have mattered, no. Even if we were still legally married, I am pretty sure he wouldn't have come back.

So what do you need to come to peace with where you are?

Queenie,

Remember when the people of Israel had just left Sinai? They had just received the greatest gift God had ever given to anyone. He had given them The Law. Not only that, but He had restored the Commandments to them after they had been destroyed in anger over their turning back to the gods of Egypt instead of waiting on Him.

So now they went forward toward the land promised to their fathers and as they went God provided everything they needed on a daily basis. He didn't just send them on their way, but went WITH them as they went. He led them by day and guarded their flanks by night. He moved just fast enough for the slowest to keep up without ever slowing so much the fastest became impatient.

He gave them the very bread of heaven in the form of manna which He gave to them every day with always enough to get through Shabbat that was received on the 6th day to remind them that He would provide if they would follow His ways.

But some of the people, those who were not part of the "inner" or "elite' group, but still members of the congregation of the Lord and being cared for exactly the same way He was caring for Moses...These people began to complain. (See Numbers 11) They whined not about what they had, but about what they had lost. They complained about having to eat manna every day when they used to have leaks and garlic and spices and fresh fruits back where they had come from.

They cried out that they wanted meat and God was angry with them. In fact He destroyed some of them utterly, but He also gave them what they desired in the form of quail. There were so many quail that they were piled up 3 feet high all around the camp. This was the feast these folks had wanted. It was the type of thing they missed about Egypt. It was why they were unhappy...

But when they ate, it made them sick. It made some so sick that they died...

Sometimes the things we remember and the things we want are those things we no longer have. We desire what we don't have any more and miss the miracle of what God has given us. We forget that back where we were when we had those things, we were slaves. What we remember or think we do, is a distortion. We long for what we THINK we had and only see what we have lost.

But God has done so much for us and is doing even more daily. By longing for what we no longer have, even though it was frankly not so good for us, we risk two things, neither of them good.

First, by looking always for what is gone, we might miss what is here.

Secondly, we risk God losing patience with us and giving us what we want only to find out that it is toxic to us and that is why He has kept it from us. He has really been protecting us from ourselves by not giving in to our desires because He knows what is best and we are merely acting like little children who want a candy bar NOW, even though dinner is almost ready to go on the table.

Queenie, think of what would have happened to you if your WH had decided to not move away. What if he was there every day so that you could try to prove to him how much you love him.

Now suppose that he wasn't committed to ending his affair and was only willing to take from you what you could give while still continuing with C-Ho.


So what exactly is it you miss? Or maybe I should ask it this way; what is it you don't have now that you once did that was real and not simply because you were living as a slave?

What about that time was better than freedom and having God lead you and provide for you every single day of your life? What was better then than the respect and admiration of your children? What about being controlled and having your life twisted around to keep him happy was better than being led by God and seeing your children understanding that you are waiting on Him instead of him...

Queenie, Mark has said so elequoently and lovingly what I have been thinking about you. I tend to be a little gruff in my delivery so I don't post as often as I could. Thank God for the Marks on MB!

You are a chosen one. God has blessed you in so many ways because you are His child. You have made a choice - to seek and chase after God's own heart. In fact, God has been chasing you as well. Turn your eyes away from the past and what was and focus on what is. Blessings abound for you and yours.

WH is lost. He doesn't want to be found. He suffers a greater loss than you, but that's his choice. Your choice is to be healthy and your path has been set before you.

Your children will truly call you blessed.

((((Queenie))))

Nothing.... I miss the possibility and hope that one day our marriage would have been something amazing. That he would have accepted me for who I was instead of wanting me to be something I wasn't or something that was reduced to a box.

What about that time was better than freedom and having God lead you and provide for you every single day of your life? What was better then than the respect and admiration of your children? What about being controlled and having your life twisted around to keep him happy was better than being led by God and seeing your children understanding that you are waiting on Him instead of him... [/quote] NOTHING....

For me, nothing. But for my kids, I wanted to give them an intact family. But that wasn't healthy. They saw us fighting, they didn't see two people healthy. They saw two sick addicts trying to figure it out without understanding that G-d was missing. I have this silly hope or "dream" that if we had figured it out, we would have finally been happy. But I honestly don't know if that's the truth.

He is the only man I have ever had a relationship with. So it's not like i have a lot of experience here knowing what is acceptable in a relationship or not.

What I know, is that people see a difference in me all the time. Last night, someone commenting I don't cower anymore, or people saying that I am calmer, happier, more at peace, I blossom in life. I'm way happier than I have been for so many years. I have such incredible relationships with all my children. I have a relationship with G-d that was something I KNOW I didn't have before. I don't feel stifled, I feel free. I have more blessings than I can count.

What holds me down or stops me from D is my vow of commitment to him. I promised G-d to love him all the days of my life, to be his wife all the days of my life. But honestly, what if the marriage wasn't what was best for ME...

I absolutely understand what you are saying, ALL OF YOU.. Only I can make the final decision, BUT please help spell it out. If I am way happier, receive more blessings that ever imagined, feel freer, does G-d want me to D WH and see what other blessings he has in store for me even if I took a vow?

A check list you say Jean... before this all happened, I often knew in my heart that I wouldn't have married my husband over if I had to do again. I felt like I settled with him. I felt like there was more in life. BUT.... I made a commitment regardless of the reasons and I chose to make that commitment. I never saw a way out regardless of how unhappy I was.

I figured or hoped we would get it right one day and we would be happy....

Queenie,

I hear what you are saying about what might have been. But the problem with might have been is that it might not have been just as easily.

Don't hold so tightly to the potential that was there that you miss out on what you have right now and what still might be.

It might have been...

But never really was...

What might be is hope.

What might have been is a wish.

We need hope.

We can wish things had been different but it doesn't change what is or even what was. It doesn't even change what will be.

Mark

Mark,

You didn't answer me.

If my heart and my mind can get D and be ok. Will G-d forgive me for giving up and moving out for HIS possibilities and life. Not my small box of what I think?

And in the end, what will that be teaching my children? Because they are the ones who need me to be strong and walk in G-ds will and be an example for them?

I am a woman of passion for life, love, adventure, relationships. I'm not a dried up woman, I was in my marriage. I was so unhappy in my marriage because I kept wanting him to just accept me as me and love me for me and stop trying to change me. I wanted him to change and be more like me, but that's wasn't fair to him was it.

How can I explain this to my kids?

Not meaning to interrupt..BUT...

Queenie:

Are you focusing on YOURSELF?

What's with the ROUTINE in the MORNINGS?

Why are you going back over your MARRIAGE at this point?

You have the PRESENT and the FUTURE!!

YOU SAID IT YOURSELF!!

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being INSENSITIVE..but it's time to just shake your head and stop giving a FLYING FLIP...

JUST DO IT!! The BEST YOU that YOU CAN BE!! I want you to "LOOK PRETTY"..as my grandmother would say...at least "a little lipstick"..as she also would say...