I agree. You've made your point, and you did it without anger, which is VERY hard to do. But let the words rest, and look forward to SHOWING him all the things you have learned and changed that make YOU the obvious better choice than Needy Polish Immigrant Girl.

Q, there isn't a ONE of us who didn't take a misstep along our Plan A way. Fortunately, we don't have to get it 100% right, and you are doing so many other things so well, this was probably no big deal (unless you repeat it).

So, tell us, what are you planning for his return over the holidays? I'm excited for your opportunity.

Right Here Waiting

Oh God...
Well, today was a really good day that turned into a really bad day.

RHW, I did not know about the lecturing thing. I am new at this. Still have a lot more reading to do, eh. I did try to make it out like it was the psych who is passing on this info and all my reading... but it was definitely trying to educate him that is for sure.

I did also mention (yesterday) that I never learned intimacy from my parents because I never see them intimate, never seen them kiss, never. So I am afraid I have passed on some of that coldness into my relationship with WH. I told him that it is something learned and that I need to work on...

Today... I jogged, did some huge spring cleaning considering WH is coming in a month and I thought I'd work on the 'make your home a comfortable place' deal. I enjoy spring cleaning and was having a good time with it.

THEN this happened:

All day though I had this nagging feeling because I know that WH was working 24/7 on a huge project and it finished today. The psych had warned me yesterday not to check up on him but I called anyway at about 9pm his time. His dad answered, WH s out, we don't know with whom. I call his cell phone. He answers, says 'oh hi, can you call me back later, I'm at dinner'. I say, 'oh, with who'. He says 'hello, I can't hear you' I say, 'hello' he says, 'I can't hear you' and hangs up and turns off his phone.

I call his father back, tell him that he had better tell WH that OW is NEVER welcome in their home and please give WH hell. Then I call him back and tell him to please not tell WH I called and said that. Then I go for a jog. On my jog I realize I need to get going with my lawyer. I need to remain calm.

WH is not NC with OW. He has not said he is NC. So I know he is seeing her. It just hurts and hurts to be hung up on in front of her. I am thinking my plan should be that I am not mad but sad that he would hang up on me? Or what should my plan be?? continue like nothing happened?

Am really, really sad now.

Thanks for listening.

OK,
I called OW's boyfriend to see who was watching their 3 year old while they were out tonight (stlll out after 1am) and he gave me the following news:

They are moving in together. Found an appt but aren't sure if they will take it. The rent is 1800 Euro. (We have 4 mortgages here and a 1200 Euro rent to pay in Europe)
WH does not make enough to pay for all this.

They plan to sleep together the first night they move in together.

WH is coming at x-mas (OW's bf knew this) and WH invited OW to come with him to the Caribbean, said he will get her a villa to stay in and they will come to her place in the nights.

WH bought a book for OW's daughter as a gift and presented it to her.

WH took OW to some hot springs a couple of hours outside the city.

WH told me he went to a psychologist but told OW that he did not go and only said that to make me feel better. I'm thinking this could be true because WH told me he had the appt but did not talk about the affair and tomorrow he has an appt but told me he doesn't remember what time. If he doesn't remember what time that means he is probably lying about going. I have the name of the psych he is supposedly seeing and will call to see if he is indeed going.

How does OW's BF know all this - this is what OW tells him. WH tells me he is unsure.

If all of the above is true, should I just go into plan B?

Please help.

OK and I also called WH's parents and told them they need to be more unforgiving with him.
MIL says things like, 'well, I don't really know if he is out with her tonight' and I respond by saying, 'please, please wake up. I need you. Please do not justify what he is doing. If i tell you he is with her, he is'. She says, 'how can you know if you are on the other side of the world and I don't know and he is living in my house'. I say, please, wake up. I need you. I called him and he hung up on me! I called ow's bf and he told me all this crap. I do not necessarily believe all that ow's bf says but he does know many truths, so it can't all be lies made up by OW.

I am screwing everything up and am in a bad place right now.

Am seriously just thinking Divorce and an end to my misery. Am quite stuck financially.

All advice is appreciated. I feel like I don't have many people following this thread, so please give me help if you are reading this and have anything to offer.

Hi Qwerty

I'm sorry all of this happened today. In spite of your best efforts, it seems he is still motoring along with his plans with her. I know you must be going out of your mind, and I know it hurts to be hung up on by him when he is with her. (I had that experience too). I felt like he didn't care one bit about my feelings - just hers. The thing to realize here, I think, is that there is nothing you can do to control what he does. There is nothing his parents can do, there is nothing his psychologist can do. I think calling everyone and trying to get support from them, even if they do give him a hard time, is just going to push the two of them together more - "Us against the world" - if you know what I mean.

Obviously his plans for Christmas have her well being more in mind than yours and your children. You will have to be brave. You will have to be strong, and calm the panic that you are feeling. I know - easier said than done. But you have to. There is no choice. On one hand, I don't know if I'd still be extending the invitation to him to stay at your house. On the other, if I were you, I wouldn't want to turn him away knowing he is not going to be lacking for a warm bed to sleep in.

Totally emotionally disconnected, I don't see any benefit at all to calling his family or showing your desperation. You know he is seeing her. You must know he lies about everything. And you know he is actively pursuing a fantasy about a life with her. He's like a child that sees a toy he wants and will do anything to get it.

I think you have to rise above this, above him. And you have to begin talking with a lawyer to protect the financial future of your family. Can you get complete ownership of your properties in the Caribbean? Get a court order for spousal and child support in place? I think Plan B is in order here. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

The reality is that he has obligations to uphold. Regardless of his intentions with her, he has LEGAL obligations to you and the children. International law may be more complicated, but you can't afford to let emotions cloud your judgement right now.

Not to say that the fantasy won't come apart at the seams eventually - it more than likely will. But you can't control that, and any attempts to do so will cause the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. This is so hard for you, I know. The pain of it is unbearable. But beyond your control now.

I think I would wait a little while, and then call him and calmly tell him that you have come to an understanding that he is carrying on with plans that involve taking the relationship with her to a more serious level. That you love him, and want to save your marriage, and believe that it is possible. That you believe that one day he will realize that he acted rashly, and that his life would turn out far happier if the two of you could rebuild your marriage. Tell him this calmly, without desperation. Tell him you want honesty from him, and there will be no histrionics, or emotional turbulence from you. You only want whats best for your family, and to stabilize your own life so you can carry on and provide and care for your children together. That he needs to think about where he will be in a few years time, and that he really should take some time alone to reflect on everything without anyone in his life for a while. Your fear is that life will show him that he is making a mistake, but it will be too late then.
I think if you could turn it around so that YOU are the one he turns to when things get crazy, he might think of you as the calm in a storm. Don't call him. Let him stew, and let him call you.

I don't know - I think these are things I would want to say to my husband - to get him to see me as strong, wise, understanding, hurting but forgiving, and willing make changes to help him find a way to be happy in the marriage again.

Then follow up with a plan B that leaves him to really experience his new life decisions without the "forbidden fruit" intensity that he is getting off on right now. The honeymoon won't last. It never does.

Hang in there Q, it's a wild ride, but you will survive this, and be stronger than you ever were before.

Thanks Chryss,

As to this
I don't know - I think these are things I would want to say to my husband - to get him to see me as strong, wise, understanding, hurting but forgiving, and willing make changes to help him find a way to be happy in the marriage again.

it implies remaining in plan A I think. ??

so please, yes, more suggestions as to whether it is time to go to B.

The crazy thing is that had I followed psych's advice not to see if he were home (I knew project finished today and just knew he would take her out). I would not have called, not have called her BF, not have called my inlaws... and just been hurting but not this bad.

I do need to get complete ownership of the properties but the mortgage is so large that the rental income just covers it. I would also need child support and more. I have to pay a babysitter and everything else. We have a lot of repairs lately which are very expensive and, well, there are 5 properties, so 5x the repairs. I do not know my rights on this at all.

trying to go to sleep now. Am feeling in shock again so think I'm in for a tough night.

Oh, Q, I am so sorry you're dealing with this! It's amazing, when dealing with waywards, how quickly things can go from bad to worse.

I am sure you are at your wits' end right now, and there isn't anything anyone can say to put it right. If you are a praying woman, now would be a good time to redouble your efforts. Above all, you need to remain CALM. An almost impossible feat, I realize, but critical, nonetheless.

Your WH is beyond reasoning at this point in time. Please do not try. The fact that he is bringing OW to the Caribbean during what was SUPPOSED to be YOUR time, and FAMILY time, is a terrible blow. I truly do not know what to tell you to do.

Maybe there are some others who can chime in because they've been through something like this, but failing that, I would suggest you call the MB counseling center. Steve Harley or Jennifer Harley Chalmers are both excellent coaches and would be far better able to give you specific advice in your current circumstances. It's $195/hr USD. Only thing I can think of, and what I would do in your situation.

Oh, Q, this is going to be a bad day/night for you. Please know that you are not alone, although it surely feels that way right now. I will be praying for guidance for you tonight.

I HATE not knowing what to tell you right now. Just sit tight, calm yourself, and pray.

((((Q)))


Right Here Waiting

There is one concrete thing you CAN do. Talk to your lawyer! Pronto!

RHW,
I knew you would be there. Thanks.
Just to clarify - what her BF says is not necessarily the truth. His truth is what OW tells him, my truth is what WH tells me and the whole of it is a lot of lies... so I don't know. I do not know why OW tells her BF things like ' we plan to sleep together the first time the night we move in together..'. and other details like that. So she has her motives for what she says.

OW's boyfriend told me WH INVITED OW to the Caribbean but that she declined.

So she, for the moment is not coming.

I can change the ticket for only $100 up until the day of the flight. So I can change my mind. He has no idea how to change the ticket or even what the reservation code is or how to find it. So his trip can be cancelled by me at any time if I decide.

I do not want to involve the Harleys at this point because I am already seeing someone else and I think it would confuse me more. The guy I'm seeing is pretty great but not up on plan a and b and such so it is true that I am confusing things by trying to listen to the advice of both.

Anyway, I'm not a praying woman but this is a good time to start and I am thankful that you are praying for me.

hugs

I have a quote from RHW that I want to drop in here so I can come back to it...

"Your challenge is to FIND a way to spend time with him. He hasn't thrown YOU out, so do this while he's at least willing to TALK to you!!! Three weeks over the holidays is a good start and may be all you get to show your best Plan A. DO IT! You probably won't see any change if he's still hung up with OW, but believe me, he will see the difference in you. THAT is what you want him to remember later, as A heats up, melts down, or causes any difficulty in his life".


ok I will read and re-read this quote because I do believe it is what I need to keep in mind. I need the strength to keep it together from now till then and then all three of those weeks he's here. It will take a miracle.

so much for sleep...

Hi Q,

Yes, I was here, but didn't feel very useful. My FWH never presented anything like that, so I couldn't advise. I did pray for you last night, and this morning. Prayed for your sitch, AND that I'd be given something useful to say to you today.

SO glad to read this morning that much of what you'd reported was hearsay, and most of THAT probably lies. Don't cancel his flights yet!

Looks like the things OW is telling her BF are meant to hurt him (presumably for past sins, real and imagined), so she's got her own fog going on. Gotta wonder, though, why she would decline a trip to the Caribbean with WH. Could only be b/c she doesn't want to deal with YOU! This is good.

Or MAYBE the reason she's not coming is because HE uninvited her. Initially he thought he was at a hotel, right? Then he accepted your invite to stay with you. If she told bf she was going, of course, she'd have to lie to him about why she's now not going to keep from looking like a fool. Think about that.

See, SHE is concerned about YOU too. That was something I was totally unable to while the A was going on. I perceived our OW as the evil victor, and I the sorry loser. Not so, I realized later. I'd catch glimpses of her from time to time as I waited for H after work in office parking lot. She looked well and happy, even after he'd told her it was "over" (Oct. 1). But he was still talking to her at work for a while after, so she thought she could hang on to him. New Year's Eve she emerged from the building and she looked awful, like she hadn't slept in days, strained look on her face. It was plain she was miserable, and I was lucky enough to have her spot me waiting in the car. She glared at me and I gave her a little "Mona Lisa" smile. He was, by then, accounting for all his time, and engaging me and the MB lessons. Later, I realized SHE was in the spot I'D been in 6 months before! GOD! That was satifying.

Your OW HAS to know that if your H really wanted her and only her, he would've gotten off the fence and would NOT be headed back to the Caribbean for 3 weeks. Yeah, yeah, he's told her he's "only going for the kids" but she doesn't believe that any more than YOU believe he's not seeing her, even when you catch him at home at 11:00 PM. Not that you should give a damn about her, but it DOES help to realize that SHE knows he's on the fence too, and could fall either way. I didn't know that, but it would've done me a world of good if I'd realized it sooner. Hope that helps a little. This ain't over.

Understand that you don't want to muddy the water by working with two different counselors, but it would be exceedingly useful if yours were familiar with MB principles since we KNOW they work. From what you've said, he's not said anything that contradicts them, but I don't know.

Come back and tell me you're OK today.

Right Here Waiting

RHW,
I am ok and your post is very helpful.
I am mad at myself for making a thousand phone calls to inlaws, boyfriend and ringing his cell that was off maybe 4 or 5 times.
But I finally spoke with him today and kept my cool. No yelling, no anger. I did say that he hung up on me and he did not seem to understand what I was talking about so I explained about pretending not to hear me and he INSISTED he sincerely did not hear me and then turned the phone off. Also INSISTS he was not with OW!
About lying about hanging up on me he INSISTS and made a huge deal about me not trusting him So out of the whole conversation I was calm but did flat out accuse him of lying on the hanging up on me thing.

I realize that much of what her BF told me is stuff designed for BF to tell me or to make BF mad. WH says she says all sorts of things to him because she does not want him anymore and wants WH. WH does not and never has admitted to me that he wants her. Only 'the feelings are very strong'.

I told him I love him, am here for him, want to save our marriage.
He said, 'ok, so you're the good guy and I am an idiot and you're saying all this because you see me as sick and are just trying to placate me' . I said, no, I know he's confused, wants to take the affair to the next level, and is confused. I repeated that I am here for him

Tonight is his 2nd appt with his psych. Hopefully the first appt really existed (according to the boyfriend there was no appt that took place). But WH gave me the psych's phone number and told me to call it to make sure he is going.

I have not called yet but will maybe do so tomorrow. The fact that WH gave me his number is a sign that that piece of info was a lie from OW and if so that is sooooo GOOD. At least I think it is. The more she lies, the better as I see it. Because that is not what lasting relationships are formed of, regardless of who she is lying to.

Also WH told me that some of the info from her BF came from a friend of OW's who hates OW and whom OW confided in and this 'friend' went and told OW's bf. When WH told me this a big smile lit across my face, so much so that I didn't really quite catch the details. Only that it is wonderful that OW has such unstable relationships with people. Makes me think this thing will end sooner than later. I am only very worried that OW will get pregnant so she can snag him. (Maybe she should note that I have 3 kids with him and he's not with me... but oh the fog).

I have rock solid friends - no betrayl (sp?) no bu..sh..t. All good, all on my side.

MIL and FIL let him have it last night. Cried, etc.

I am off to go windsurfing. I am now in better shape than in the last 10 years. Admittedly a lot of it was shock weight loss but I've now been working out and am wanting to keep this as a permanent change along with a very good change in attitude. Seriously no more fighting anger with anger. I feel like even if we don't reconcile, I will be able to bring these lessons into any future relationship as well as with my own parents and friends.

More about day 4 or 5 or whereever we are later.

Also I told WH that he can call me, I won't call him because he complained I call him too much. A bit depressing but I am interested to see if he remembers DS's 5th birthday this Friday.

Hugs

Or he's bluffing to make you feel guilty so you won't check. I'd check anyway.

The best advice I can give is focus on yourself. Do some good hard soul searching to see if you're getting what you want out of life and, if not, how you can get it - for your sake and your children's sakes. If he wants to be part of it, let him. But your duty right now is to take care of yourself, be true to yourself, and be there for your kids.

That said, I know you'd love for him to forget son's birthday so you can say 'look at what you did,' but I hope that you won't do that. I hope that you'll remind him so that he will remember to call his son. There is absolutely nothing that hurts worse to a child - and lasts longer throughout his whole life - than to have a parent forget his birthday. Don't let your son be your weapon to use against your husband.

Hang in there!

Hi Catperson,

Glad you are still here with me.

Yes, I will call the doctor. My idea was to speak with the doctor myself and WH had agreed to this even last week. So the news that he had not been to the doctor was a strange and EXTREMELY upsetting surprise. I say extremely upsetting because he has repeated over and over that 'the only thing I know right now is that I need to see a psychologist'. It seems so, so, so true that to think that he made it all up was just too much.

Good advice about son's b-day. You are right. I need to stay above any wrongdoing at all.
I am pretty sure he will forget ds's birthday but his parents will remind him and if they don't I will. Absolutely right.

I am working on myself. I am soul searching but I'm afraid to go too deep or I may just give up on WH. It is getting hard to remember the good times. The more I write about him, talk about him, talk to him, the more I think, 'why do I want this man?' Is it because now I'm in this game, on this website and it has become my mission in life? Is it because I don't want to see him happy with another woman? Or to take away from my children's future? Is it for financial security? If I had financial security would I give him up? I have no career and 3 kids to raise. The financial security thing is a big one.

coming back soon...

OK well, let's call today day 4 of Plan A - after the very huge blip maybe we should revert back to day 1 but with some otpimism here I'm calling it day 4.

So I called him this morning as reported. Had a conversation that was probably too long for plan A and too much about the relationship. But I was calm, I listened. I told him I love him and am here for him and repeated that probably a couple too many times. But we were coming off a real rough spot from yesterday.

Since we had discussed that from now on he call me, I sent him an e-mail more or less stating that It's sad not to call him. I like hearing the sound of his voice. It comforts me. I love telling him about all the silly little things the kids do each day. And good night. Nice e-mail. Tried to get in the admiration with the 'your voice comforts me' comment.

Got an e-mail from a close friend saying that I should get rid of him.. she says I have essentially been alone since I've known her and that she doesn't like seeing me treated this way. I also feel that the comment from Catperson was more or less pushing me in that direction without such direct words.

exercised, ate well, kept up on the spring cleaning and decided to paint the living room on my own next week. I will move the family into one of the rental apts that is vacant next week and do it then. That way I don't have to pay anyone. I never would have done this in the past and am looking forward to it. It's a big job but I have over a week to do it.

That was day 4... tomorrow day 5.

Q,

"The more I write about him, talk about him, talk to him, the more I think, 'why do I want this man?' Is it because now I'm in this game, on this website and it has become my mission in life? Is it because I don't want to see him happy with another woman? Or to take away from my children's future? Is it for financial security? If I had financial security would I give him up? I have no career and 3 kids to raise. The financial security thing is a big one."

Please know that every thought in your paragraph above, every single one of them, I have thought myself, and I suspect every other BS has as well.

Yes, it DID become my "mission in life," because I could think of no other than remaining married to the man who had been my partner throughout my entire adult life. We shared SO MUCH. I couldn't, didn't WANT to, throw it all away. I think this is a major issue for most BS's. And it's also the thing that is likeliest to bring a WS back to the BS...shared history. Hard to discount. And when dependent children are involved, that is another huge factor.

I did NOT want to see him happy with another woman, and the thought that he was ripped my soul apart. I think that's a natural reaction, don't you?

My children were grown and on their own, but financial security all of a sudden loomed important to me too. I'd just lost my job, was 58 years old, and very realistic about job opportunities. Yet, I KNEW it was much more than that. I don't believe I would have seen it any differently had I had my own source of financial security. I know I would've thought of something, and been able to fend for myself financially. (Of course, I didn't have three little kids to worry about. That might have made a big difference.)

I'm glad you took catperson's advice to heart. That you will be sure to remind WH of DS's birthday. It is the high road that you must take for your baby's sake.

RHW

I haven't had internet access for two days = so here are days 5 and 6.

And RHW thanks - I know that many BS's feel like I do but maybe I am starting to feel it too much. We have 8 years history together (a lot less than you but of course still significant) but I have often used the words, "I'm a single mother". He works all the time and since about year 2 together it has been that way. I've pretty much always done everything alone but more-so now that we are in the Caribbean.

I have been pretty good with plan A these last two days but we have much less phone contact because he doesn't want to be called and checked up on. HE feels paranoid (duh...). He went to the psych again and afterwards send me a weepy e-mail that he is crying all the time, entered a toy store and almost fainted so had to leave, hears the kids voices in his head, etc. I wrote back to take care of himself, to call DS on his b-day and to please, please be careful when driving. I signed it with "I love you".

That was day 5 I think in the AM. I then spent the ENTIRE day fixing up the house while the babysitter watched the kids. I installed a closet organizer even though I have not touched a drill in maybe 15 years. I did it and it looks great. I also took some things to a storage unit we own after some serious organizing and cleaned out a loft we have above our living room that had lately turned into a storage area and is now back to living area. Huge amount of work and it kept me busy. I was also happy about WH's sadness, seeing it as a good sign.

Today, day 6 or so I had no internet or phone connetion and was really sad that WH did not call our son for his b-day. He could have called on my cell phone but did not do so. When finally this evening it was back on there were two b-day messages on internet (for a 5 yo who can't read) and he did call - so he had been trying probably a few times. I'm a bit upset that my in-laws didn't call - but they are mad at me at this point because of the calls a few days ago where I insisted they open their eyes and stop making excuses for him. During those calls I tried to explain that WH stands to lose his kids and they did not want to hear that. So now I guess I'm the bad guy but I guess that happens and if things work out I know they will get over it.

When WS called I asked him to send money and he yelled at me for maybe 10 minutes. I held the phone away from my ear.

These are a few of the gems from the last few days...

'why would you be worried about money? there is absolutely nothing to worry about' why don't you trust me? Me asking for money is 'terrorism'.

'It is unfair that you contacted OW's Boyfriend' Really unfalir. You should not do that. You have no right to do that... "on and on.

I have remained calm through this and literally just zoned out. I hold the phone away from my ear. At the end of the money tirade (I did not interrupt or object) I said, ok, well we'll talk by e-mail tomorrow or the next day. I have a lot to get done before the stores close and I need to run.

But during the money tirade I felt myself thinking that I'm really starting to hate him and don't know how much longer I will want to continue.

I am also VERY worried about his visit. If nothing has changed how will we possibly co-habitate for three weeks. (I say 3 weeks but really don't know when he goes back as he needs a new r/t ticket originating here).

He is showing NOOOOO Remorse, no understanding of my pain, of my worries about money. Really nothing. He even said, 'well, you choose to spend all this money right now'. I hired a full time babysitter because otherwise I am completely alone with 3 kids and have no family here to help. If she weren't here I wouldn't be able to even go grocery shopping. My car has been in the shop for a few weeks and I only have a two-seater. I could put the kids in the trunk but then there wouldn't be room for the groceries... (I hope you know i'm kidding)

My stomach has been in constant wanting to vomit mode because he bought a gift for ow's kid and I'm thinking of x-mas and him spending money on her. I feel so sickened by the thought of him taking her out, him buying her gifts,... he says he will take some time off starting dec 6th and I am assuming they will go to some romantic european town together. I am soooo nauseated by it all I cannot bear to think about it.

Anyway, that's it from here. I feel like I've almost fallen into plan B but on his terms because now we are not only long distance but we only are communicating by e-mail.

If anyone followed this thanks=- I know it's a jumbled mess.

He will be here in 18 days.

Keep me focused please!!

Aw, Q, what a lousy couple of days. I've been offline too, because of our Thanksgiving holiday--house full of people. So sorry to come back and see your pain.

Your saga is beginning to sound eerily like a piece of mine. I don't know what's going on with your WH for sure, but he is behaving a lot like mine did for a while. Not wanting you to call, telling you had no right to "intrude" or tell anyone what he is doing, showing anger...

This could be the beginning of a turning point. Any turnaround in the offing will probably not be quick, though. It sounds like he's got some conflict but hasn't thrashed through it yet. Maybe hasn't even looked it square in the eye yet.

If he was upset after seeing the psych (did you ever check to see if he really had the appointment?) he is suffering too, and just as he cannot understand what you are going through, you cannot understand HIS pain. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how my H could be in ANY pain--he was making the choices! I was wrong, but I couldn't understand it then. Don't try to understand it now, but know that he is hitting some rough spots too. Yes, this is good, but doesn't suggest a rapid resolution. Try to contain your own expectations, and just follow the PLAN.

Consider this: He's angry at you for finding out, calling him on it, and spoiling his fun. He has believed he can have it all--you, OW, the kids, and he's beginning to understand it cannot be done. But the things that caused the emotional distance between you (too much time apart, things you and he did to create the atmosphere that created the vulnerability to an affair) are still very real factors. He cannot see all your changes, but he has to know you are trying to save the marriage.

This causes conflict. He is totally self absorbed at the moment and doesn't want to deal with your money worries, his obligations, or the mess he's made. Remorse? Understanding your pain? Not a chance while he's trying to hang on to his "I'm the good guy here" stance and seeing himself as a victim.

Please remember that during Plan A, we cannot expect ANYTHING in return. Dr. Harley says this because he knows that the wayward is self absorbed, bent on self justification, and will flee from any reminder that what he's doing is wrong. For a while, my H banished me altogether--he couldn't deal with the reality of me or the reality of what he was doing. Contact was torture for me because of the things he was saying and the things I knew he was doing. Can you allow for the possibility that contact with you causes your WH pain, too? Not pain as YOU know it, but pain from his totally different perspective.

At this point, Steve Harley advised me to take a very low-key approach in what he termed a "modified Plan A." Light, touch-and-go emails that included NO relationship talk. Just to, as I understood it, be the beacon that shines quietly over the stormy ocean, the light in the darkness showing the way home. Do not be the storm. Be the beacon. Try backing off as much as you can, for your own sanity, and to give him a chance to think.

Do NOT stress over the fact that there are only 18 days until he arrives. 18 days can be a lifetime during this crazy period, as you well know. Focus on TODAY, what you can do TODAY to calm yourself, to calm the intensity between you.

He has to work through this process in his own time, and there is no way to predict, or even recognize, exactly how he will do it. Or when.

And don't assume you know why his parents have gone silent. You cannot know what they're thinking. Do you think they aren't upset at what HE'S doing? Do you think they are not concerned that future contact with their grandchildren is at stake? Maybe they just don't know what to do, what to say to you, how to fix it. Do not be concerned about them right now, nor judge their motives. Just focus on how YOU can remain calm.

Holding you in prayer.

Right Here Waiting

RHW,
Thanks so much for that post. It was short but had a lot to say. I especially need to listen to the part about not expecting anything to change quickly. That is hard to digest but I know it is so true.

I have not called the psych but I do believe he is seeing him. I checked that the phone number he gave me is the correct one and it is. I will call the psych but for some reason I have been waiting. Maybe part of it is that I don't know what to say to him. (am I calling to check-up on WH, am I calling for an appt for me when I already have my psych, am I calling to add info to WH's story). The latter is what I want to do but I don't think that the psych will accept that. My own psych DOES want both parties stories, even if you are in IC.

So days 6 and 7 or so...

After a couple of really nice e-mails from me, WH wrote to call him. So I did and we talked about absolutely nothing. As if he were not having an affair. It was actually a nice conversation.

I have been hard, hard, hard at work fixing up the apartment and working on the rental apts as well. I installed a closet organizer and will install another one, had the living room painted, spent hours removing paint from the terra cotta terrace (kids paint driftwood out there and it is looking bad), completely organizing a loft that we have above the living room and dragging boxes to a storage space we have, etc. I am telling you it is an ENORMOUS amount of work. I even bought a new refrigerator and some furniture and am having some wood furniture re-finished.

The thing is that during all this work my own apartment is a big mess. And I keep thinking how if WH were here he would be mad that it is such a mess. He is totally unreasonable and whenever we do work he says things like, 'why do we have to live like this?" (in a mean voice) and I say that it is only temporary, we are fixing the place up. Then he also complains that the place is not organized enough. But to organize, you need that mess. I only say all this because I am feeling like it is harder and harder to hang on to him. I'm so sad that he could continue this affair while I know about it and not feel any guilt. What kind of person can do this? Then I think of things like the above and I just wonder.

Meanwhile looking at the carrot and stick of plan A I do feel like I am doing what I need to do on my end. I am not sure I can meet his EN's from a distance and without much phone contact and that may be the number one thing in plan A. But I am definitely working on me. I do feel I am absolutely without any doubt the best choice. I feel like the OW is a jealous, possibly somewhat crazy girl who will only cause problems. (but... don't forget 'she doesn't ask anything of me...') well, WH, just you wait.

sorry for the rant. I think as to the last two days, things are good. I am busy. We make small talk. I try to meet EN's as best I can long distance. I talk in a calm, relaxed voice. I do not argue or fight. I listen. I just hope I am not being a doormat.

more for day 8 to come... tomorrow is next psych appt... always a big day.

hugs

I'm beginning to think that many people divorce not because they no longer love their spouse, but because they simply are too tired of having to compromise. Like your disorganized house, and what H would say. Without him there, you are enjoying the ability to work as you please without worrying about dealing with his upset. Sometimes all we want is to stop worrying, ya know?

We are painting our kitchen. Or should I say my H is painting, because he doesn't believe I can do a good enough job, so he elbows me out of the room. I'm a great painters' tape applier, though!

That's all he trusts me with.

Reading your post reminds me of the one thing that keeps me going back to thinking about leaving my H. Wanting to be able to take action, do things, even mess up things, without worrying about whether I'll get a lecture, or get chewed out, or some other soul-crunching act. I know I'm a good painter. But the only way I can paint in my house is to wait til H goes out of town. What kind of marriage is that?

Is that what you have?

Q,

Sounds like your H has Domestic Support high on his EN list. SOOO hard with small children in the house. How lucky that you have a couple more weeks before he arrives to put the place in order (with improvements yet!).

You realize that when the time comes that you are living together again, whether in the Caribbean, or better, in Europe with him, keeping things tidy will do much to fill his love bank. DS was never very high on my list, but was more important to my FWH than I realized. One of those things that subtracted from his love for me. How I wish I'd understood.

Good job on staying calm, and for maintaining the effort to keep your convos light and breezy. Makes it feel safer for him to anticipate three weeks with you. During those three weeks, it will be critical for you to maintain your very best self. Good you're practicing now. Think of the next 17 days as a dress rehearsal. Curtain goes up on Dec. 18. You can do this.

I know how disheartening it is to realize that this will take time to work itself out. So hard to keep your expectations low. Try to remember that, despite the excitement of his A, the life he will see possible with you (and the kids!) this Christmas time will provide a heavy counterweight. That is your goal. No blowups!!! Are you taking an anti-anxiety medication? You might need it to keep your cool for 3+ weeks. Please consider it. They barely kept a lid on my emotions but they DID keep me from delivering a pot to his head while he slept. :crosseyedcrazy:

As for talking to his psych...I don't know about the laws in Europe, but in the States, all information on a patient is strictly confidential, so you probably couldn't get any. It would be easy for you to come across as the jilted, desperate wife, and how would that serve you? I mean, the psych probably understands that already. I think all you need to do is confirm is that he HAS been seeing the therapist. For that, you could check with his scheduler, you know, call and ask, "when is his next appointment" kind of thing. If he's NOT going, that will be immediately clear.

Hang in there, Q. You're doing the best you can.

Right Here Waiting