Thanks, LA. You always say the right things to make me think harder, things that hit home and make me analyze myself, the holding on to those comfortable, familiar emotions.

I think I'm back on track now. Thanks.

TS, you and I are so much alike. It hurts me to see people take you to task on your thread, when I know the h&ll you're going through, that relentless waiting for the anger and passive aggressiveness and manipulation that wear you down.

Sometimes people will tell me 'Just say no! Don't give in! Stand up for yourself!', when they have never lived with someone who does such a thorough job of shredding your sense of worth. They've never thought twice about doing what they want, never worried about making H angry, never contemplated the 'punishment' for doing so. It's no different than a child who is taught to obey the parent out of self-protection, even if the punishment is no worse than belittling you or questioning you.

So you and I...we can work on this together, huh?

I know that, ears, that I can just go and watch. I guess I'm just not doing a good enough job of explaining this fear of attention I have. I suppose it's something akin to agoriphobia or some such; it's literally overwhelming to me. It sounds easy to just say 'go ahead on in that room' but when you are so terrified of people judging you, even though you know it's illogical and you have reason to be proud of yourself...it's just a really big mountain for me. I think I need some other hills to tackle first.

CAT, I want you to know it means a lot to me to know that you understand my circumstances.


DEFINITELY, you and I, we are on!

Cat, I'm not saying that this should be easy for you to do, or that you're not going fast enough, or that I don't feel compassion and empathy for you. I am sorry to add to your pain today. It is not an easy thing for anyone to face that our lives had become unmanageable.

I think that you know that we have been where you are, too. Terrified to continue to do the same thing, and terrified to take a leap of faith and do something different.

Yes, I hope I didn't end up hurting you either. I know these things are easier said than done; I know you are moving in general towards learning to speak up. I meant my words to be reminders, encouragement... I don't have the gentleness that LA has. I'm glad her posts help you.

I like to believe that we all here know each other well enough to know we care, we don't mean to beat each other up. Y'all have taken me to task before sometimes. I think we care enough to hold each other accountable; I care about you and I want you to treat yourself with respect; to respect your own feelings. I care about you and don't like seeing someone (you) hurt you. Growth is painful, and can be quite scary. I have faith in you, cat. You are wise, and beautiful, and caring. And strong, stronger than you realize. You have the power and the wisdom to make good choices.

I understand it is easier said than done. You are getting there. I know you can do this.

jayne, no worries! I'm grateful for each and every comment I get, whether it's patting me on the shoulder or shaking it, lol!

Most of the time I welcome the shake, sometimes it's a little hard, as I'm sure you know. I'm fine. Thanks for caring.

Hi Cat, I'm sorry this painting job ended up bringing up bad memories for you. When I read your posts I have the feeling that you have no personal ownership over anything in your life. What I mean is, can you point to one thing in your life that if your husband said "change that", that you could say "back off, this is my area, my decision".

I feel strongly that people need personal autonomy and this ties into the ideas of ownership or boundaries. Your dh keeps crashing through yours because (I think) you feel that you don't deserve your own opinion. See although Telly or I might clobber a husband that grabbed the brush from us (mine would be lucky not to get a paint splat across his clothes) you fear the retaliation that would happen.

I guess I'd like you to consider what is the worst that could happen. So, you grab the brush back from dh, or tell him "You do not have the right to do that". What would his retaliation be: pouting, telling you off, refusing to speak to you? All of these things will pass, and once he sees you standing up to him he'll have to accept it.

I know this is hard, I was told by my parents that I had no right to my own opinion. But, I've decided that they're wrong. It takes tremendous courage to stand up to bullies, but that is what your husband has become. Its his way or the highway. Sometimes you need to call him on these bluffs and then just let him scream. Honestly, he'll get over it, just as a toddler denied a cookie will get over his tantrum.

Cat,

You may not have been talking about me... but... in case you were, I want to ask you a question.

WHY do you think I get so infuriated when I read your threads?

Hmnnnn? (Telly nudges cat and smirks at her sheepishly and shyly).

No guesses?

Okay... I get infuriated at you because you are TOO MUCH LIKE ME!!!!

It is so much easier for me to see with great clarity what you are doing wrong, because some part inside me knows that it's wrong when *I* do it. I don't want you to do it, because I don't want *ME* to do it.

I'm yelling at you (figuratively speaking) because I'm ALSO yelling at myself.

One day, we'll have to talk about how well I understand your feelings and responses. In the meantime, I'll try to jolt you out of letting your spirit be hurt, and (in the rare cases I share about it), you can try to jolt me.

:-)

Well, I tried. He asked me to pick up the paint since I was at the mall, so I did. Get home, watched Chuck and Heroes, like we do every Monday, and H sleeps through most of it. I get up at 9 to finish the 2 walls we ran out of paint for, but the paint I picked up was messed up, of course. The guy didn't mix it properly and it was all white and gooey. So I have to take it back. Just one more proof that I screw things up.

Anyway, I go to use the topcoat (2 step process) and H wakes up and asks what I'm doing, I tell him, he makes a derogatory statement about why would I do something that dumb, when we haven't finished the bottom coat on the other walls, so I just give up and go in the other room and cry. He eventually comes in, sees me there, and asks why I'm mad at him now. I say I'm not, and I start to try to tell him how I'm feeling, how I go along with all his decisions, but if I take a step to do something that didn't come out of a decision from him, it's stupid. I said how stupid it makes me feel to have everything I do questioned and to have to justify it.

That's when he goes into his exasperated 'why is my life so miserable' mode and starts justifying every little step he took over the last 2 days, and telling me how bad his job is, and how much he hurts having to do manual labor, and etc. I try to back out and say this isn't about the painting; I'm trying to tell you how I feel when I'm asked to defend all my actions. I mentioned how badly my feet hurt at night, but I don't say anything because I know how important the projects are that he takes on like fixing up the old car; I just take more pain killers.

Basically, the same speech we go through every time I have a breakdown and actually get upset enough to tell him the truth. I say I'm hurting, he backpedals to make sure he doesn't end up responsible for my hurting, I give up and say forget it.

The only progress I made this time is that I mentioned that this isn't about this one instance; it's about our problem with communication; it's about how unsafe I feel to ever express myself because it gets turned around to focus back on blaming me. Don't know if it made an impression, because he spent the whole time defending himself.

At least I said something.

Cat, I don't have advice as I so understand what you are going through. Hugs...

I just wanted to say that I know I've been DJing my H a lot lately; it's just a phase, that pity party. I really do see progress in him, that he is being more open and trying more to listen to me. It's just I wish the progress was a little faster or more permanent, you know? I was so excited when he bought the paint, it's been so long since he's done anything for the house. So like ears said (I think), hopes up, hopes down. Need to work on that.

He did try to make up for upsetting me several times after last night's episode. Has been very nice to me. So that's good. And I'm going to reciprocate tonight.

He asked me if I wanted to go to Vegas with him and his boss in January for the annual electronics show (his boss invited me). Vegas is the last place in the world I'd like to go to, and I don't want to use 3 days' vacation on it, but I'm going to go because I want to put some extra effort into the 15 hours a week and Recreation thing.

Cat, sharing your O&H, even when it's hard, like last night, is for you. I'm sorry that your H got defensive and didn't hear your pain. But I'm so glad that you shared, anyway. Reinforced to yourself that what you have to say is important.

(((Cat)))

This is the diaglogue pattern that we learned in MC. http://al.turtlecounseling.com/blog...nication/_archives/2005/3/13/430605.html

I wonder if it would help you and your H.

What would make you enthusiastic about the Vegas trip? Maybe something like he could chauffer your daughter for a weekend before you go so you could relax at home or in-town? What would make your H enthusiastic about you not going? Maybe there are other annual electronics shows in places you would like to go?

Thanks for that link; I have printed it out.

The only reason he's asking me to go is his boss invited me. I wouldn't spend the money. But it will make him look good to his boss (he likes me), so I want to help him. The only reason I don't want to go is I don't gamble, and I don't have any money to go shopping, lol. But it will be a nice break, and we need one.

I'm with Telly...which is why I see so much of myself in her (the parts I want to know better)...same for you...

We are posting to you not to fix you, Cat...because we have parts of you in us. We do understand...about denying self to the extent we won't go into a store as the only customer.

We do know fearing being judged by strangers, the air, that building, or even a darn tree. LOL. We know...and we aren't just remembering...we still watch our patterns, old routines...

even now.

Because you sharing helps others...you sharing about your own thoughts, life, experiences and perceptions. That's how you help others tremendously...volunteering self.

Precious, priceless and unique gift. Takes you opening your mouth. And you do, you did, you will continue to do.

Hardest part of sharing is letting the response go. The act of sharing is not the least of what you did...it was the most. You did that. Keep doing it. In bad times and in good, in sickness and in health, for richer or Las Vegas. Keep sharing.

Free yourself from your rat run of expected (desired/undesired) response...and live in freedom. Scary, heady, amazing, respectful and fulfilling.

Think about your tears and your expression of what you heard, what you experience...you really weren't sharing with him to get him to stop, start, end, begin...you were sharing you with your partner, best friend, best enemy, you're all person. You want him to hear you...just as you want time with him...so tell him.

The town won't excite, thrill or delight me...oh no...it's just the nearness of you...



And you're not off track, nor did you get on the wrong one, IMO.

This IS the track...you're on it. Sometimes, you may want off it. I remember.

lol

With the big-heart you have have, what's your payoff in shredding another human being in your mind with DJs? That's not who you really are...it's a learned behavior, a coping skill turned poison within you...'cuz it wasn't real to begin with. You manufacture false self-esteem through others, focusing on them, the same way you feel it robbed from you by others.

Which is why we experience a lock-in with the reward/punishment cycle (into a lifetime). Break out of it.

My answer to this question was...because we're here to help others. We aren't here to be equal, to connect, respect or share experiences...we're here to serve...or die.

Sound unreasonable? Sure is...funny what you find inside yourself when you listen deductively...I remember discovering a belief I'd formed at age 9...if they like you they won't kill you.

Made me a pleaser...not the reality...my chosen belief...before I knew I chose my beliefs.

You choose to believe it is living with a man for 30+ years who made you this way...instead of your repetitive choices during those same 30+ years (and prior to that). Both have influence...which one do you control? Your H is limited in his influence to what you allow.

Only you.

And that door has been wide open, yawning chasm open, for decades.

His fears are about him...his comments are part of the tapes playing in HIS head 24/7...he's going to screw up, mess up, lose you, doesn't deserve you or DD, he's a failure, a lazy louse, a no-good for nothing...

those whispers don't stop, either. And they come out his mouth.

And there's no excuse for him doing this to you, DD or himself.

Period.

There's an explanation, an insight...do you think what you fear most isn't sharing who you are with him...it's knowing him as he really is (not your perception), his experience, would be really terrifying to you? Like it just might break your heart to pieces?

LA

LA, I wanted to share, as I read this, I came to this part, and before I read down, I thought you were earnest in this

My answer to this question was...because we're here to help others. We aren't here to be equal, to connect, respect or share experiences...we're here to serve...or die.

And I thought, wow, I'm so short of that. But I look forward to the climb!

And then, you went on to say that this was a belief you discarded, and I let out a breath, whew!

I don't think I fear knowing who he really is. He's completely honest with me about his feelings, his fears (except when it comes to our marriage), etc. I'm placing this where it belongs - on me and my journey. But thanks for reminding me of my power. I need to hear that, a lot. It's the first thing I discard in bad times.

ears, me too, lol.

Ears, sure is a relief.

God's design...by sharing ourselves we help others...and others help us...it's an unchangeable two-way street. And in doing so, we greatly affect others and are affected...crummy or wonderful, and every shade in between in experience.

Share anyway.

I accept where I got that belief and bless it as it goes...and comes back. Just is...doesn't determine my awareness of it. Fear clutches at these as if there is a safe way to live, because doesn't believe it is ever safe.

And we are and are not.

Sounds like it really hit you, too, and your care for me, and yourself, shows through in your posts, I believe. Thanks for being part of my journey, kiddo.



Cat...I hear you saying he isn't completely honest with you. Can you hear that in what you wrote? You don't fear hearing the tapes in his own head, out of your control, his experience. That's good to know. Wasn't like that for me...I didn't think I was afraid until I began to hear what he'd held inside himself for 20 years, either. Just me asking.



I feared hearing the stuff in myself, btw. My greatest fear...why I ran into expectations, choosing based on possible response, thinking I was safer in what I could see out there than what was in here, all along.

Thank you for being here, Cat. Your honesty helps me.

LA

What I meant was he freely tells me everything he's thinking and feeling about everything and everyone except me, because he's afraid of upsetting me or getting in a dispute, since we obviously have different viewpoints on things. Like with the paint. He told me to pick out the paint I wanted, because the last time he chimed in, I picked what he wanted, but later said I didn't like it; he knows I have a problem expressing myself and standing up for myself.

So he holds in what he thinks about me, but I know him pretty well in all other aspects.