Believer, your son has ignored God's commandments at his own peril. His girlfriend "cheating" on him in no way compared to the pain of adultery.

I personally believe in many ways it is WORSE for a fully repentant FWS. I've actually lived with one and seen her torment.

See believer, I can't wrap my brain around how you can classify your unmarried son in the same category as a BS, and think that a FWS who has recovered their marriage can't understand - remember the FWS in a recovered marriage also shattered their own marriage and does deal with much grief over that...

You see, Mr. W cheated on me REPEATEDLY before we married, and YES, it hurt TERRIBLY...I was devastated in fact...same stuff, didn't eat or sleep...Hey, the week of our engagement I even received a card in the mail that said, "Congratulations on your engagement, too bad Mr. W had to sleep with so many of your friends first!"...and it named names - one of those names was actually true, but I didn't find that out til after my affair - the girl caught the bouquet at our wedding and held our dd, AND slept with my little brother after our reception!!! Bad, really bad, yes...BUT, I do not believe for a second that that is the same as what Mr. W felt when I betrayed him by committing "real adultery"...I don't think it's in the same ballpark really...the stakes are much higher in a marriage...

Mrs. W

Well, I am not a wayward, am not in the company of waywards and never carry water for them, and I see extreme bitterness and cynicism in him. So that disproves your point. Sometimes this accusation speaks of the accuser, and sometimes the person actually is cynical. It is the latter in this case. It appears you cannot tell the difference.

Well it would seem YOU have spoken so all is decided!

"It IS the latter in this case"!

You don't know if I can tell the difference or not since I have not judged Aphelion.

Yet you have no qualms "judging" those who identify his clear and present cynicism.

The only difference between being cheated on by a girlfriend and adultery is a piece of paper and a man-made ceremony. What if they had dated for several years? What if he truly loved her, but was waiting to marry until they were finished with college, etc.?

The parts of my brain that hurt the worst don't care one bit about the marriage certificate, or the ring on my finger. I loved her, she betrayed me, I was crushed.

As far as God's commandments go...what about all the "good Christians" out there, and even on this site, who have been ripped apart by infidelity? Is God punishing them, too?


Well, if you thought HER torment was bad, you should've seen her BS.

No FWS, repentent or not, can even begin to imagine the suffering of the person they betrayed. Even the suggestion by a FWS that they "get it" shows a lack of remorse, or plenty of ignorance.

No, they don't get it, and never will.

Cynical is smart.

Faith in your fellow man is stupid.

Ah yes. The much touted "piece of paper". You really should read Dr Harley's book "Buyers, Renters and freeloaders" Comparing a renter/buyer or a freeloader/buyer relationships is like comparing apples and eggs.


Who ever said God was punishing people? That would be your misinterpretation. I am a "good christian" as is my wife but I never considered God was punishing me.


Well I AM her BS. Duh.


Well thanks for displaying your ignorance.

And what did I judge you? Uncaring, mean-spirited, cruel? I only pointed out that we should not judge his opinion as being derived from some self-conceived cynicism on his part.

Maybe he really feels waywards can never change.

There is nothing "smart" about being so cynical so that you paint every WS with the same broad brush as if you have psychic abilities to read their minds.

Psychic powers like..."It IS the latter"?

I’ll leave their conscience to God, thank you very much. What is in their black hearts is between them and their god.

Well, also speaking as a friend, I think my detector may simply be more sensitive than yours.

Without exception, ever adulterer I know irl is primarily sorry they were caught or otherwise had to stop what they were doing.

Take the very ordinary case of a former close friend of mine married to a very lovely woman for 15 years. He had a six-month affair going strong when OW’s H found out and he had to scurry under a flat rock to avoid a severe beating. The affair was also exposed to his wife by OW’s H. So my former friend commits to rebuilding his marriage. He was so sincere. Oh, so sincere. But wait! Six months later he is caught having another affair. He said it was to get over the first affair. Right. Right. He is just another ordinary adulterer. Like they all are.

Want to know what he is actually remorseful about now? Child support for his three young daughters. Oh, and because his BW would not forgive him the second adultery. That really irks him.

On MB one can read of remorseful adulterers here and there. If this is what they sound like irl they have no more cred with me than those two dozen or so adulterers I know personally.

Just like them all. They would still be in the affair if they had not been caught or the affair burnt out because, well, because they are adulterers practicing adultery and that always works out well in the end for them, doesn’t it…

They do not change. Sorry, they do not change.

Even Dr H says never again trust your spouse, lol.

My son fully understands that the choices he made are causing some of the consequences. He and his fiance were high-school sweethearts. They have been together for a long time.

And he is hurting, and no, she doesn't get it. She is remorseful, but has no clue.

My ex is remorseful. I really believe he is. But until one has gone through this, they have no idea.

My niece went through infidelity right before I did. I didn't get it then. She is beautiful, talented, smart, an ocology RN in a teaching position. She was so depressed she went to bed for a month, had work problems and was obsessed. I told her she was better off without the bum. Now I look back and cringe at my words.

psychic powers as in:

Personally, I think WS understand that they hurt us, but I don't think they understand to what degree. They can't comprehend the absolute devastation they've inflicted - the anxiety, the grief, the level of anger, the nightmares, the inability to eat...because they've never experienced that kind of betrayal. It's a little like trying to explain to a first-time mother what giving birth feels like. You know it hurts, but you don't know what that kind of pain feels like until you go through it.

Neither can a BS understand the pain a WS goes through.

I would disagree on the basis that your wife was able to con you for YEARS. Not so with me. You also are not able to discern true signs of remorse of certain FWS on this forum. I am. Your detector is probably very broken from living in a situation where you have been deceived for years.


This pretty much proves my point. You are basing your opinion of WS based on purely anecdotal information and have whitewashed all others based on anecdotal information. As I suspected, you believe that all are just the same as your wife and the individual case you cite here. However, my anecdotal information can cancel out yours.


Dr. Harley does not ever say that waywards do not change, though, Aphelion, because they do. He would disagree with your assessment - he told me this when I called him about serial cheaters. He even believes serial cheaters can change.

For many cheaters, though, having an affair was an aberration of character, so there was no change to be had. In that aspect you are right. But, I suspect you are basing this opinion on your own wife, for whom this is a way of life due to her years long affair. Am I right about that?

No, psychic powers as in yours:

I am very sorry to hear your wife is still in contact with her OM Aphelion. How long has this been going on for?

Exactly right...............