KLD,

So much to think about.

I am wondering if I missed before that your WH has such serious suicidal thoughts. Of course, you have to take them seriously.
I am urging you again to talk to his counselor.

Also, think hard about my next suggestion. Talk to your H about your DEEP fears about finding dead him and THEN ask for WRITTEN permission for his counselor to talk to YOU about hIM. A written waiver will override any privacy laws. The counselor can provide the waiver for you.

I suspect that he will balk at this. Keep up with gentle persistence though. If he gives in EVEN grudgingly, JUMP at the opportunity.

It sounds to me like you have been forced to deal with his behavior while you are in the dark, trying to do the right thing, but WITHOUT necessary information. It's like driving down the road when you can't SEE the road. Oh yeah, like driving in the fog.

Mental illness(or the symptoms of it) changes EVERYTHING.


More later.

Praying,

Turtlehead - I can't beleive you took the time to read my whole thread. I so appreciate your willingness to do that to understand what I've written so you can help me. You're right - I have gotten excellent support from so many here and I appreciate it much more than I am able to express.

I think that most everyone here has nailed it that my WH doesn't get it. I do believe he wants to make things right, but can't/won't take the necessary steps to do what needs to be done. He isn't willing to give up on his fantasy, though I think he believes he's trying to do that with his counselor.

He told me last night that he can't tell me how he feels and he doesn't know how to tell me what he wants to say to me. This is nothing new - he has been this way since I've known him. He has a very difficult time expressing his feelings and it's something that he's almost unable to do if it's anything beyond telling me he loves me. Many believe this is just a cop out on his part and I guess it may be. I have recognized that he is very different from me and expressing his feelings is so far outside of his comfort zone that he can't/won't go there.

I'm sure he is only focused on his own comfort, though I'm also sure he doesn't realize that - because of that focus on his own comfort (viscious cycle?). I have no idea what it would take or if anything can make him understand this.

I do realize I don't have many good options here. I'm back to the point of trying to do the right thing that will cause the least damage to his health and to mine. I feel like I'm again waiting on him to get a job so I can walk away without worrying about how he will support himself and how I can keep from losing most of the financial stake I have in this marriage. I know people will blast me for that, but I'm being honest. This is a concern for me and it's not one I'm willing to discount as unimportant at this time.

EO - I thank you so much for your input. Your experience with Alanon and the reminder that I'm not responsible for his decisions is helpful. While I do know these things, I struggle so much with walking away from someone who is so dear to me when he is in trouble. Whether his trouble is self inflicted or not seems a bit irrelevant a good bit of the time.

I do know that I can't continue like I have been. I have been doing exactly as he has to some degree - trying to keep things at a comfort level for me. Even though I feel pain, anger, and hurt it seems a better alternative than to separate myself from someone I truly love. I know this is not healthy.

I believe he did tell his counselor that he has had suicidal thoughts. I don't know how much time they've spent on this, but I'm sure she knows.

Cat - I think you make a good point. I haven't really considered it so much from this perspective, but I probably should.

As for do I know what he's thinking - sometimes I do, but most of the time I don't think I really do. I don't think he shares most of his thoughts with me.

How can you address this concern? Have you spoken to a finacial advisor? I'm not understanding why you would stand to lose more because he is temporarily unemployed. He's not a career homemaker.

Being on his own isn't throwing him into financial ruin. He is an able-bodied grown-up, can take something temporary until he finds the right thing. My concern is that you are still protecting him from the natural consequences of his actions.

KLD, also, he can get SSI and even paid retraining for diagnosed depression.

EO - I think it's my guilt (reasonable or not) coming through. I'm also a little worried that I'll end up having to pay some of his expenses if we divorce. I actually don't think he would push for that, but who knows what can happen.

I don't know how to address this concern and maybe I just need to not be concerned about that. I do realize that I need to get a dose of common sense and stop feeling responsible for how his life turns out.

do a google search

"death by a thousand cuts"

he's killing your love by a thousand cuts
you seems to be waiting for the one big cut that makes you mad enough to change your boundary - This does not happen, so you tolerate the small cuts, never realizing the magnitude of your injuries

KLD,

I am wondering if you are online. I would like to e-mail you privately if possible or have you e-mail me if that would be better.

I have some thoughts that I would prefer not to put in a public forum.

Up to you COMPLETELY and maybe you want to make sure it's a time when we are both online.

Hope you are alright today.

Praying HARD,

Bumping for KLD.

WH2LE - I'd be very grateful to hear from you outside of this forum. I wasn't near a computer today and am just now getting your message.

If you're on now, I'll give you my email address. If not, I'll wait until I know you're on.

'Thank you for caring and being willing to be a friend.

WH2LE - I'll be online a little while this morning. I'll check to see if you've posted.

KLD,

I will post my e-mail here for about 20 minutes. If you get it ,just post that you have it and I'll take it down.

If you don't get it before I leave, I'll post it again in afew hours.

We'll play message tag for a while. lol

I've kept up with your story on and off over time.

What I find missing in your posts is what YOU are doing to make your M happier, stronger, and better.

It is all too common for the BS to expect the WS to fight hard and do the hard work to repair the M, after all, they broke it like no one else could, but that is simply not how it happens. You have to make the M one where either of you will want to fight to stay IN it.

What are you doing today to stay married?

And is your resentment keeping you from being fully in your M?

I think I know the answer to that...you are holding back, afraid of getting hurt again, keeping your own counsel. But how is that making the M better?

link to Mulan's explaination of "boundary"

It's excellent. Hopefully will help you think about this and come up with ideas.

WH2LE - I'm online now until about 12:30PM...

StillHere - I probably have mainly posted my frustrations, fears, hurts, resentments about my WH and his A. In my case, I believe I've done quite alot to make my M work for my H. What I think I've missed is how we can make it work for both of us.

I've worked on myself have tried to meet his emotional needs - it's difficult to do that when I don't know what they are. I've asked for his input many, many times and I get very little in response. I've planned fun things to do together. I've listened to his concerns and fears about his career. I've been able to push my hurt aside to be sincerely loving to him. I've been extremely patient with him and his doubts about wanting to be in our M.

I am afraid of being hurt again. I'm not withholding my love from him, though. I've been an open book to him about my fears and my feelings. I'm the one who has looked for alternatives to D.

I haven't been perfect, but I think my efforts are the only reason we're still married today.

Thanks, Pep. I'd read this a while ago and it helped to read it again.

I had my first counseling session with my new one and we talked a little bit about this. One of the things he stressed to me is that I need to get a life of my own. He said that my whole life is my husband and that in essence I've become his mother. I'm not completely bought into the mother part, but I agree 100% that my whole life is him. (He's probably right about the mother part, too, but I'm not ready to go that far, yet)

He told me that my H is willing to do some of the things I can make him do and the things I can't make him do are frustrating to me. I need to realize that I shouldn't have to make him do anything - he should willingly do those things without any forcing on my part. I'm struggling on how to get there. My counselor said that my H's decision to do or not to do is only up to him. I think this is where my boundaries come in - or where I've left them off.

My struggle also is that I don't know how to develop an enforcement method that isn't only to leave. Example - if he won't bring his cell phone into the house at night do I leave? What boundary enforcement can I use for this? Or is it a bundle deal - such as he needs to bring his cell phone in every night, let me have access to the phone records, email accounts, bank accounts, etc or I will leave?

I don't know why I'm so inept at this...

I think it would help you to go back 6 months and read what you were getting ready to do before you exposed. You had some pretty concrete thoughts on how you should act - before you got worn down again. You go through things like this, you start doubting yourself and your capabilities.

I want you to get mad. I want you to stay mad. And indignant. I want you to tell him "I've had it! I deserve better than this! You had better start learning how to respect me and treat me like the valuable asset I am, or I'm going to find a life for myself - BY myself!"

He's a grown man, KLD. He threw away any obligation you owed him months ago with all the lies and cheating and sneaking. Please don't let your own insecurities and FOO issues make you stay shackled to him just because you can't make yourself leave someone who is wounded. We're ALL wounded. You can't save us all, can you?

His mental condition is HIS to own. And I truly believe the reason he hasn't worked harder to fix it is because he knows you're there to prop him back up; again and again and again.

You deserve better than that. You deserve a man who talks to you. Who shares dreams with you. Who asks you what YOU need, and then GIVES it to you.

Stop being an all-time-high Giver. Before you check out.

I agree wholeheartedly with Cat. Go back and read what you were saying in the spring.

I have put the email back in at my previous post. Will leave it there for a while.