WW should not be told of MB, she is still in contact, foggy and wayward. Telling her of MB will only give her access to spy on what BH is planning. It's too soon.

OMW

Be carefull, And do NOT tell her any plans you have. Do not tell her or OM or anybody else that might slip it to either of them your plans.

Stop giving your battle plans to the enemy!

Now, I wonder how the Other Man spun this whole thing to his wife. You should try to contact her again in a few days and see what is happening in there camp.

Dont trust anything your WW says tonight. She will likley try and placate you so you dont contact OM's wife again. This is so she can continue her affair. Unfortunatly, in this situation such things are the norm.

manicoty, I want to explain to you what you are dealing with here becasue I don't think you understand your wife's frame of mind. Your wife is under the intoxicating influence of an affair and is not in her rational mind. She is very much like a falling down drunk or a crack head. They do not respond to reason. So having "talks" with her will be like trying to negotiate giving up the crack pipe with a crack head who is due for his next fix.

When you have this "talk" with her today, it will be important that you drive home this message: you are not interested in talking about divorce/separation and will not cooperate. You will only discuss a) ending her adultery [<----use that word!] and b) working on marital reconcilation.

You must be like a BROKEN RECORD.

Please understand this is what you are dealing with and most of the things she is saying are CLASSIC fog talk from waywards. They all rewrite history [I have been unhappy for years], they all cite grievance going back to 1950, they all say the separation has nothing to do with the affair, etc, etc, etc, etc...

We have heard everything you have said here a million times on this forum. All of we BS's are simply nodding our heads at your posts because it is part of the ADDICTION.

THIS IS WHY YOU CANNOT TAKE ANYTHING SAYS SERIOUSLY! To make any plans based on the babble of a falling down drunk is FOLLY. We have many marriages recover whose spouse seemed even more resolved than yours.

So, here are some key points you must keep in mind:

1. your wife is talking crap that is all designed to facilitate her affair

2. her affair is temporary so it would be INSANE to make any permanent changes based on her temporary insanity

3. you cannot reason with a falling down drunk

Your job will be to continuously inject the greatest amount of REALITY into her affair fantasy. Great ways to do this are:

1. expose the affair to the OMW, employers, family and children - when forced to see herself through the eyes of others she will awaken from the fantasy. she will be shocked to see the disgust and disappointment on the face of others - THIS IS VERY POWERFUL

2. do not - DO NOT - cooperate with any divorce or separation schemes. Tell her you will only discuss marital recovery - you will NEVER cooperate. Tell her she will have to get a court order for absolutely everything. If she thinks you will lie down easily she will be emboldened. fighting any legal action will drag it out and buy you some time while the affair crumbles.

3. tell her if she files for D or separation that you will counterfile on the grounds of ADULTERY and will call the OM and his wife as material witnesses to give sworn testimony under oath

4. you will not allow her to take a penny of family money to move out and pursue her affair [protect your finances NOW!!]

5. and most importantly: YOU WILL NOT BE HER FRIEND. you must understand the deeper meaning behind this point. See, a WS will ask you to be their "friend" so that you will not complain while they stick it to you. This means they do not want to face any consequences. let her know that you will not have a "friend" who lies to you and cheats on you. you will be her husband if she ends her affair, though.

The entire reason she wants to leave is so she can have her drug of choice. Keep this in mind. So your job is to kill her affair and cause as much conflict as possible. Once her affair is over, then you can work on turning your marriage around.

So, here is the latest on my not very optimistic situation....

I have exposed what is going to on to several of her closest friends, all of her family and my family. Basically all of the people that really care about her. Everyone has been in touch with her and try to make her realize what she is doing and explain that they do not approve of it. Her family, who she is very close with, have all basically told her they will not associate with her any longer if she does this. Her friends have basically said the same. Her mother is vowing to destroy this guys professional career, and she can. I have been in touch with all of them and they are all very supportive of me. This does not seem to phase her. She tells me she can not give up these feelings and she guesses and relaizes she will have nobody in her life in the future.

This morning was not very encouraging. I contacted the other mans wife. She confirmed to me that they are now divorcing because his feelings towards my wife are too string for her to compete with. He is leaving his wife and children. Of course, that leaves him there just waiting for my wife.

I had met with my priest today (something I never thought I would need to do in my life) and his advise to me was that I can hold on to hope, but be realistic and prepare for the worst. I am meeting with a therapist tomorrow. I believe she is meeting a therapist at all but I am not optimistic about that.

So, what do you think of my situation now? Given these details, can I realistically think something will change. If she doesn't leave can I really think she is done with this other man knowing he has left his family for her and is out there waiting for her. This may be my sickness and frustration with the whole situation but I am really questioning now if I even want this to work now for myself. I don't think she is deserving of someone like me or my four great kids.

Use her 'love' for the OM to your advantage. Get her to give you the kids. Get her to move out. Save your family first, then worry about recovery. I would threaten her with a nasty divorce if she doesn't agree. Play on her fantasy to get your kids. This is war and your kids are at stake.

An update, and start of an ending....

I had seens a therapist yesterday and a priest a couple of days ago. I have come to acceptance that this will not work, and more importantly, I don't think I want this to work any longer. I think I am one of very simple needs. While I believe I have been happy over the past several years, I think we have been emotionally divorced for a very long time. I just didn't realize it. Now with OM separated and waiting with open arms for her, there is no way I would be able to complete with that if I wanted to.

W saw a therapist yesterday too and I think that backfired. She came out of there so happy and relieved that someone finally understands what she is really feeling. She told her that she has to be concerned with making herself happy. Exactly what she wanted to hear or at least thats what she tells me she told her.

Anyway, now I want to make this easiest on our children. We talked about how to proceed last night. She agrees it is in the best interest for our kids that they stay at home with me. I expected this but am happy to hear agree to this. She hopes I will allow her to see them which I would. I believe the kids do need a mother in their life. She apologizes for what she has done to me and our kids and "tells" me I can have everything. Of course, I will protect myself and plan on speaking to an attorney within the next two days. With the advise I have received from various places, I do see the need to tell them the truth sparing the details. For now, we will tell them that we are not getting along to prepare them. We would like to make it through a peaceful Christmas season which the kids can enjoy. After that, we will tell them the truth.

I'm sure I will hear from here that I am giving up on this without trying enough. But, I have been coming to the realization I don't want to try anymore. So, if she doesn't and I don't, I don't think there is much of an option.

I greatly appreciate the advise I have received from this site, both in the articles and this discussion forum. It has really opened my eyes as to what was going on and how I should logically react to it.

Use her fog to get the kids and anything else she will agree to. It might as well be used to some good. Whenever she pushes too hard for something just hint that you will block her exit to OM.

This is what bad therapist's do. Who's going to pay good money to hear that your affair is bad.

Hey, bad therapist's have to eat. They should choke.

Sound Advice!!!

I've seen way too many golden opportunities like this missed here at MB, while a BH tries to save his M at all costs, when there is nothing really left to save.

Many WW's feelings and emotions got them into these messes. Why should a BH allow their "feelings" for WW to screw themselves again? BE SMART, and use her wayward "feelings" to your own advantage in negotiating custody and settlement arrangements.

A few days ago you said that OM and his W were separating. A lot can change in the coming weeks. Could be that OM wants out or his wife kicked him out but it's still too early to know for certain if this is in fact the end unless you are the one that is done.

WW might see things differently once reality starts to set in and her family turns her back on her. If MIL destroys OM's career he's not going to be too happy about that. Looking at her children's faces once they are informed of plan D and her A may knock some of the [censored] out of her head. WW and OM will have a lot of baggage to deal with...and fantasyland won't look so pretty anymore.

If you are truly done with trying to recover the M make sure you protect your children from their wayward mother. If she doesn't agree to YOUR terms, be prepared to rip her a new one if need be. Don't let her guilt you or play innnocent about how sorry she is. It will be much easier to get what you want now versus dragging her back to court later on.

Everything now must be about you and the kids!!! Get this legally done quickly!! She could have a lightning bolt hit her next year and be remorseful and want to recover. But you will be in a position of strength with custody of the kids and financially is a good position.

manicoty1,

This site is about taking ones time to make decisions and offering ways to recover a marriage IF the parties concerned want to recover it. You have decided it is in the best interest of yourself and probably your children to divorce your W. She wants a divorce.

You are not going to get any grief for making a considered decision to end this marriage. If you are satisfied that you did your best, then that is all anyone can ask.

As everyone else has said, protect the kids, get custody, protect yourself financially, and then let her go.

God Bless,

JL