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Originally Posted by manicoty1
The thing that kills me is explaining this to our children (ages 5,7,9,15).

Are you planning on lying to them in order to make your wife feel better about her adultery and abandonment?

Here is what Dr. Harley says about telling children:

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.

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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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My God - what is wrong with you man??????

You actually are falling for her BULLCRAP!!!!


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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mani,

I don't hear you saying you intend to lie to the children....only that it's a killer having to explain it. It's so so hard, but it's better to be honest with them. You do really need to tell the other man's wife...there are children involved there too! I know you think it's over....but I don't think the fat lady is singing yet....please keep us posted.

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See mgolfer71's thread and grow a pair:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2147274#Post2147274

Your WW has been faking love for you for almost 15 years? GMAB Don't hand your W over to OM on a silver platter and let your W destroy your family without even making an attempt to save it.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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We had a long talk tonight. I am afraid I think I am throwing in the towel. I can not try any more to convince her that there is something there and it makes no sense that there was nothing there from the beginning. She is insistant that from the day of our wedding she did not love me. We were young, I was 23, she was 21. We had a 1 year old child together at the time. She felt I gave her the security, etc. that she needed and that is why we married. But love was not one of these reasons. She is VERY insistant on this. As I look back on our marriage now, I can think of various times where this was seen.

If you choose to fight for your marriage, then in Plan A, you bring reality. Here's my example of that by bringing reality to you...from having been in your shoes, used to believing whatever my H said...and him believing my own WS fog, too.

"I am afraid I think I am throwing in the towel." You can feel fear; you choose to throw in the towel or not, based solely on your choice. You don't make that based on another's choices.

We can convince ourselves of anything...choose wisely what you believe and live by it. Your choice.

"I cannot try any more to convince her" which is great, because it's fantasy to convince anyone of anything--THEY change their minds. You don't change it for them.

Choosing to try to convince a WS is like nailing jello to a tree. Don't do it. It's disrespectful and is part of the BS fog...and there's fog enough in your WW's thinking.

She's convinced herself of these things...they aren't true, weren't true, 'k? In order to decimate her family, she must justify herself, her choice to have an affair, which means using self-deception.

Don't do the same thing and self-deceive. This isn't your real wife...this is the WW alien wife who has invaded your marriage. You don't know her...so don't pretend to know her, convince, educate, change...

You know she loved, loves and can feel loving feelings for you again. Your choice what you believe--she can't make you think otherwise, either.

Don't argue with a WS...listen and repeat...essentially confirming you're hearing their stuff as theirs...echoing it. Bouncing it back. Not refuting--separating it from your own mind as the truth rather than the babble it really is...

Do so respectfully...don't argue with a WS...if you do, that's you choosing to drive yourself crazy. She's not powerful enough to do that.

You are.

"So, we are in peaceful agreement that a separation is best." Please don't lie to yourself to conflict avoid or to smooth over what is shattered. Self-deception is contagious because of the fear of doing differently. Do differently. If you are not in peaceful agreement to break apart your family with separation, divorce...if you'd rather have your real wife back...then don't agree with what you don't agree. Don't betray yourself, too.

If you have decided to divorce her due to her infidelity, then do so. State that to the kids...and take the steps.

What you choose depends on what you want to see of yourself in five or ten years when you look into your kids' eyes and say, "I truly did all I could to keep our family intact and save our marriage."

Gotta tell you...partnering is rough...you are real allies, seem like enemies, love, hate, fear, frustrate, despise, long for and a lot more...how we experience each other...doesn't mean they are...they are your partner, your ally...sure can feel like an enemy when they're attacking your marriage.

Learn to know what you experience separately from reality. She chooses, you choose. Mind your choices. They determine your life.

You don't need to inform your WW from respect of what you're going to do as you hold yourself to your code of honesty in informing OMW of the A. That's about you, your standards. You weren't respecting her in anyway...if anything, you were saying "Out of respect for the affair" which is crazy making.

Same code of honesty applies to your children. Yes, you fear. You hate that you must...and you hold your fear and do it anyway. Code of honesty.

Don't buy in. Go for clarity, understanding, pick your purpose. You'll find a lot of relief from doing this and this mess which your WW created won't seem so messy. She'll seem more like the alien she is right now.

Call the Harleys, get a plan from them, their advice and move on it. They are great at clarity, breaking the BS fog and not getting sucked into the WS fog.

You're not alone. You're not bad or wrong...and you're not crazy.

LA

Last edited by LovingAnyway; 12/02/08 11:46 AM. Reason: Was a mess. lol
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It's up to you whether you choose to attempt recovery, but please don't make your decision based on the BS she is telling you.


Me 43 BH
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Wow! Thanks for everyones input. I'm glad I came across this site. Your responses make me really think about what is going on.
I think I may not express myself in words very well which makes it sound like I am not going about this the right way. Or, then again, maybe I am clear and I'm still not going about this the right way!
I don't think I am giving up too soon on this. Over the years she has suggested these same feeling several times. I was hurt and convinced her we should try to make things work. Things would then seem to get better, but not really. The problem is she would never tell me what she feels. Two years ago I filled out the emotional needs questionaire and asked her to do the same as I really feel this would help us to understand each other. She never did! She only held on to mine so she could know what I am missing and felt she couldn't give me those things. She brought this up last night. She took it out and read it. She told me she would never fill it out because she wouldn't want to hurt me. She jsut doesn't get the whole point. She had gone to counseling years ago and says the counselor told her she can't make something thats not there. She believes this so she thinks its a waste of time to do any more and she dosn't want to.
So basically she does not want to do or try anything. I can not force her to.
This morning, of course she pleaded to me again not to tell the other mans wife. When I told her I want to contact him to she tells me to "Leave him alone." I told her I know this affair is not through and I konw she cares for him. She agreed. I have been trying to get in touch with the other wife today.
Regarding the children, I find it difficult to agree with the concept of telling them about it. I am not seeing any value in that but then again I'm not the professional here.
Will keep you posted.

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Originally Posted by manicoty1
This morning, of course she pleaded to me again not to tell the other mans wife. When I told her I want to contact him to she tells me to "Leave him alone."

Oh good grief man - stop giving your WW a play-by-play of your battle plan! Not only will she warn the OM, she will use it against you too!!


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Originally Posted by manicoty1
This morning, of course she pleaded to me again not to tell the other mans wife. When I told her I want to contact him to she tells me to "Leave him alone." I told her I know this affair is not through and I konw she cares for him.

Your WW does not care about this man; she cares about herself. If you honestly care about someone you don't go around helping that person destroy himself. Stop telling your W what you are going to do and just do it. You are making a serious error in revealing your plans to WW and don't use it as a threat because that won't work either. Expose already. If you are not proactive you will either be divorced or wringing your hands a year from now about how you still don't know what to do or what you're going to do one of these days, blah, blah puke

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Regarding the children, I find it difficult to agree with the concept of telling them about it. I am not seeing any value in that...

You still want to be seen as the "good" guy and not make waves. Would you leave your child in the care of a known drug addict or someone who was more concerned about their own welfare than that of your child? Your W is an unfit mother. Adultery not only makes her a crappy wife but she is a crappy mother and human being as well. You don't have to give them the gory details but your silence is basically validating that adultery is A-ok.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by manicoty1
does not want to do or try anything. I can not force her to.
This morning, of course she pleaded to me again not to tell the other mans wife. When I told her I want to contact him to she tells me to "Leave him alone." I told her I know this affair is not through and I konw she cares for him. She agreed. I have been trying to get in touch with the other wife today.

Unfortunately, you have forewarned the affairees which will give them an opportunity to spin the truth to the OMW. I would strongly urge you to get ahold of her TODAY before that happens and give her the truth.

Your W is terrified of exposure because she knows it will ruin her affair.

Your wife is seeking the divorce only because of the affair, not because of any other problems in the marriage. If there was no affair she would not be asking for D. This is why it is so important for you to do your best to kill the affair so you can save your marriage.

Your wife wants to move out so she can carry on her affair with the OM. She believes he will leave his wife for her. But if you warn the wife, you will interfere with that plan. That is why she is so adamant that you help her hide her secret from the OMW.

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Regarding the children, I find it difficult to agree with the concept of telling them about it. I am not seeing any value in that but then again I'm not the professional here.
Will keep you posted.

Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. If you do not tell them the truth, your W will tell them a highly spun version of the truth, usually with you starring as the demon. That will leave them wide open to be misled and morally confused by your wife when she introduces them to the OM. They need to be told the truth so you can give them GUIDANCE through this terrible time and protect them from her.

You would be making a huge mistake to give up so easily unless you just don't care. The answer to a bad marriage is to work to turn it around, not to just leave and destroy the lives of 4 little children. Your wife's affair is very temporary but divorce is PERMANENT. And so is the DAMAGE you would inflict on your children from a divorce. They will never be the same.

They need their father to stand up for their family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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manicoty, there are no guarantees, but we have had affairs end the day they wre exposed. Now, I suspect that your W believes the OM will abandon his wife for this affair. It is very doubtful he would do this, though. So telling the OMW will flush him out quickly. Affairs thrive on secrecy so it is your job to get it out there and cause conflict in the affair.

Also, I would suggest contacting the OM afterwards and letting him know you will be fighting for your marriage. Right now he believes you will lay down and allow him to destroy your family without a fight. I would disabuse him of that notion. That will greatly discourage him if you cause conflict in the affair and may encourage him to dump your wife.

The goal here is to do everything in your power to ruin the affair. Once that is ruined, you will have a chance to recover your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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manicoty, you are getting some great advice. Something you wont find in books or somewhere easy to find. Expose the affair now. I was in the same boat as you were but my wife stopped the affair and pretty soon realised how badly she hurt me. She is not thinking about contacting OM again - knowing that if she does then I will go absolutely beserk. I still love her but she knows the boundaries within which she has to work and there are no exceptions to that rule.

Recovery is meaningless if the A is not terminated immediately. It completely changes the dynamics of your marraige. We have a long long long way to go but so far we are doing not too shabby.

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Yesterday I got in touch with the other mans wife (someone who I previously knew and knows who I am). She was in complete shock and disbelief. She asked me for all details I know to be certain its true. I shared pretty much everything I know. She asked me for my number and if she can call me back if she needed to. I told her this wasn't a problem. About a half hour after the call, I called her back. My intention was to tell her that now that she knew, I wish she would try to make things with the affair end and work things out as I am hoping for. But, to my surprise HE answered the phone. It was odd. We have met each other several times in the past. He spoke like there was no problem. I know a half hour after I found out, I could barely breathe. So, I wonder if he cares about his marriage. I did tell him the same as I was planning on telling his wife.
Obviously, he then contacted my wife to let her know what I did. As suspected she is furious and will not speak to me now. I told her how I think it is ridiculous that she can show me this anger over this after how controlled I have been over the whole situation where she did a thoughtless and hurtful thing. SHe responded that the reason is because I gave her the type of detail I did. I know this is bs and I strongly believe that what I did was approrpriate. Hopefully, some day she will realize this. I told her if this is the way she is going to be, she should leave our home much sooner than later because this is not a good situation, especially around our kids.

An additional note to another post, they are now working together because she left for another job. However, she always works some early and late hours (although I don't think she needs to), so I can't say I really always know where she is.

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She is mad because you are ruining her fantasy world. They all get mad. In her state of mind right now, there is nothing you can do that will be good. In her state of mind, you are the enemy. Nothing you can do about that at the moment.

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I did tell him the same as I was planning on telling his wife.

sigh Why did you tell him this? You should have been blowing him to smithereens (sp?) not telling him what you wish or hope would happen. Did you phrase it like that?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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manicoty, you did the best thing for your marriaqe. Exposing the affair will hasten its death and may very well save your marriage. Your wife will be angry for a little while, but your marriage can survive her anger, it can't survive an affair.

But you can't stop after punching the affair one time. Finish up your exposures so it has a tsunami effect. You have them on the ropes and want to do everything in your power to give it [affair] a KO punch.

That means exposing to their employer, her parents, close friends and family. If you attend a church, notify your pastor. But most of all, TELL YOUR CHILDREN. Their lives is being torn apart by her adultery and they need the truth and your moral guidance. Please do not leave them vulnerable at this time for the lies of your W. Because if you don't give them moral guidance, SHE WILL.

We can tell you how to do all of these exposures today, but please read what I have about telling children:

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Quote
"The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight."

Quote
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

"Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse)."





"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show. If anyone wants this MP3, email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com and I will email it to you. I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by manicoty1
Obviously, he then contacted my wife to let her know what I did. As suspected she is furious and will not speak to me now. I told her how I think it is ridiculous that she can show me this anger over this after how controlled I have been over the whole situation where she did a thoughtless and hurtful thing. SHe responded that the reason is because I gave her the type of detail I did. I know this is bs and I strongly believe that what I did was approrpriate.

His wife deserves to know absolutely EVERY DETAIL about the affair. And I hope you plan on staying in touch with her so you can compare notes and work together to kill the affair. She can become your greatest ally in the slaughter of this affair.

This woman is your wife's VICTIM and she very much is entitled to know everything. You did a good thing for this woman, Manicoty. smile


Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Wife called this morning to apologize for being angry and looking forward to talking more tonight.

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I would suggest if his (OM) wife needs support that you suggest she come to MB. At least read the books and articles on here.

As pertains to your WW, her fantasy world has been nuked, she is mad. she will probably call you every name in the book. remain calm and tell her you are only trying to save your marriage, your family. that does not involve lying, cheating, or hiding the truth from anyone!

Last edited by HURTandSHOCKED; 12/03/08 01:06 PM.

Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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