We've been married 20 years but the same issues keep coming up over and over. We'd talked to three separate counselors over the past 10 years and have had varying degrees of success--or nonsuccess with each. This last time fell apart and now he is seeing the guy on his own and refuses to go back with me. I have my own therapist so no need for me to see MC on my own.

I just don't think this can go any other way but to split up. I really think I've been supportive and loving through his depressions, unemployment, etc., and whatever I do, it's just not enough. On top of that, I'm insecure enough for him to have me convinced that I have to take all the blame and this beating myself up is getting old. I could go on and on but bottom line is that it's not getting better, we're just cohabitating in the same house, and we're probably going to start hating each other, if we haven't already if I don't do something. As usual, he's not working, so it's not like we can afford for one of us to up and rent a place. However, he hates living here and wants to move back across the country to where he grew up (and where he insisted we leave so many years ago...). Nothing else will appease him even though we've got kids in high school. Several times I've suggested we just purchase an airline ticket for a month, two months--open return--whatever, but he keeps throwing up objections.

After discussing this with my therapist, it seems to be the best strategy for a separation.

The last time our marriage was this low (almost this low--this is worse than that), he thought it was "over" and embarked on an EA with an old girlfriend. I have no doubt he'll do the same or worse with a month or two of separation and possible divorce. It bothers me but I think I have to let it go.

How can I convince him to just go?

You can't, so you probably just want to get that idea out of your head right away. You can't make or convince anyone to do anything that they don't want to do.

You're the one who wants to separate, so you need to look at leaving. You're the only one whose behavior you can control. Period.

Depending on the state, you need to get under the protection of the courts so that when you leave the marital home, you can't be accused of abandoning your obligations. Some states have Legal Separation. Mine does not and you're forced to go ahead and file for the divorce.

Hi Seabird:

I know I'm the only one I can control. I had this conversation with my counselor today. I read your "starting point" thread and I have to tell you, I think I feel a lot like your wife. My H is emotionally abusive (though he will deny it long and loud) and I'm so tired of his constant crazymaking and of walking on eggshells and of getting twisted into a pretzel when I try to talk to him. And yes, I am sleeping on the couch. I took my wedding ring off about a week ago and he came unglued when he saw that--though he's had his off for over a month now.

He was married before me--just a short time, and no kids--but when I think about the way that marriage ended, it's so similar to the situation I am in, that it's scary. Both our MC and my IC think there's a degree of narcissm (sp?) involved on his part. And my IC thinks our emotional needs are contradictory. He is very needy and my response to constantly being needed by the other adult in the house is to put on body armour. It doesn't matter how much I try to be supportive in the best way I know how, it's never enough for him. He always makes sure to somehow let me know I"ve let him down.

I do need to contact an attorney but like moving out and occupying a second household, money is an issue. He's not working.

That's his problem, not yours. Right?

Have you read the book Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men? If he is indeed abusive, this book may become your second bible. Please get it.

It sounds like you're enabling him to keep doing what he's doing. So stop. Start looking out for yourself. If you feel in danger, keep a packed bag in your car and a key in your pocket at all times. And start protecting yourself. If he argues, ask him to stop; if he doesn't, tell him you're leaving the room until he can talk respectfully. Then leave. Same for yelling, belittling, etc.

Start making moves to protect yourself financially.

I think I read that book a few years back. That's what kicked me into the idea that he was using emotional and verbal abuse techniques. I remember joining an online forum/support group and at some point he saw the emails about it and got very angry. (gee, ya think it was denial?) He thinks I get hoodwinked by all that psychobabble out there.

My IC has been seeing me off and on for over 10 years. I originally went to her for help with panic attacks. I now realize there was a reason I started to suffer them 6 months into my marriage! But I perservered 10 years before I sought her out to get help. Things improved panic-wise, our finances didn't---I lost my health coverage when his job went belly up in 2002 and I stopped seeing her. I only started again in 2007 to help me deal with his EA--outside of MC. Of course, now we're onto other things such as whether or not I want to stay in this marriage and what the situation is doing to me. She made an observation last week about my blaming myself and how she's seen a subtle shift in me from our earlier days to now--such as my not wanting to confront or argue or disagree with my husband, blaming myself, etc.

She's not pushing me, but I'm slowly working my way towards this realization that I need some space. I can't force him to work on his issues; I can only work on my own and I can't do that living in the same house. We had a huge argument Sunday night that once again resulted in somehow things being all my fault (at least, that's how I felt after what he said) and I finally told him that I just didn't care anymore. Shortly after that he was nicey-nice. But thinking about it, I get anxious all over again. It's a huge circle. We'll fight and he'll try to browbeat me. I push back and talk about leaving and he's nice. But then I feel like I'm walking on eggshells again just waiting for the next blowup. If I were to write down one of our arguments here verbatim, your heads would be spinning too!

Please make plans to leave. At least for a little while. If your marriage will work, it will best be done with him having to do some work of his own.

And while you're on your own, you'll start regaining your self-worth, once you're away from his toxic BS.

We had two dogs, a male chow and a female mutt. The girl always deferred to the boy, as he was the alpha. He died earlier this year, and now that the girl has been 'on her own' for 8 months, she's a completely different dog! She runs around, she never cowers, she eats as much food as she wants, she minds us...all because she doesn't have to give in to the alpha any more.

While you're apart you can set some boundaries on how to protect yourself from the manipulation. If he agrees to it, you simply will leave if he gets you back and then starts back to his old ways (which he probably will).

But right now, you can't see those boundaries cos you're too deep into placating him and blaming yourself.

I agree with the others, you need to be the one to make the decision and follow through. Why will he want to move - all this has happened - and I bet you still clean the house and cook meals and keep the household and children on track. He's got it made!! (or is that maid lol). While you keep all of this going, it frees him up to be unemployed and pursuing a romantic interest elsewhere. If he was working fulltime and taking care of the house and children, his time and self-indulgence would be a bit more limited.

Do you have enough money to be able to move out? I would make sure that you have copies of relevant documents and paperwork that is important to your separation BEFORE you make it obvious what you are doing - bank statements, mortgage/rental paperwork, receipts for purchases - both his and yours, contracts, birth certificates, marriage licence etc. It's a pain to be arguing over something you know exists but can't prove. Once it's been removed and/or destroyed, some stuff can be impossible to obtain.

This comes from personal experience in coming home to find the house had been emptied. Through forward-thinking I had already removed the paperwork. The funny thing was, in his haste to get away before I got home, he'd dropped a receipt from a teller machine that told me the balance of his account that could only be that large from him selling an asset without telling me. God works in mysterious ways I removed all the paperwork in the weeks leading up to our separation and kept it at my workplace.