Well, they can do what they want, but I do not choose friends who are liars and cheaters as a rule. Those are not traits I look for in my friends. The traits I look for are honesty, respect, intelligence, morality and a lifestyle that demonstrates they live those principles.

Now, surely people can CHANGE their ways, and if they do, that changes everything. My XH left me for an OW, but I would never be friends with him because he is still a liar and a cheater and continues his affair to this day. I would be a fool to have such a friend. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, SHAME ON ME.

Sorry, but she just manipulated you into getting exactly what she wants. Hire a lawyer and tell him to get the best possible deal for you because your WW cannot manipulate him so easily.

I knew nobody will like this. However, I think I made the right decision. I save a lot of problems for my children, and I keep custody. I keep their birthdays, christmas, new year and vacations. I keep our house, she can live in the other, but it will not be hers. My children will not suffer, because they'll be living with the parents they love, in the home they know, and in the new home they wished. We avoid large and expensive legal problems. My wife is not a bad woman, nor a bad mother, she is a bad wife.

I also feel relieved, because now I can look for another person if I wish. I have realized that all this time I was with a woman who didn't loved me as I loved her, and which didn't share my interests, my thoughts, my dreams. I don't need the six months you mentioned before, because this feeling has been in my heart since almost the beginning of our marriage, but I was obssesively trying to mantain a relationship which should never have existed. In fact, I've feeled ready to leave this marriage several times before, but my love for her, my children, and the hope she'd someday change stopped me.

I really thank you all. This is the worst event in my life and you really helped me. If I could do everything again, I'll have not exposed her, and just asked divorce. The good side of all this is I discovered there are good people like you, I have several good friends I didn't recognized as such, and I'm much more united with my mother, to whom I almost never talked before, since she supported me all this time.

She doesn't deserve me, but my children deserve their mother and their father. I'm finally free.

soliario, it is your life to live as you see fit, however, I think you are making a very hasty decision based on her very temporary state of mind. She won't be mad and you won't be hurt in 6 months, but your divorce will be permanent and your children will be permanently damaged from your divorce. Divorce is devastating to children.

Your wife is a bad wife right now, but she doesn't have to be in the future. We have many people here who were bad wives and husbands who have turned their lives around.

If i were in your shoes, I would not cooperate with her at all just because I know that her affair and the subsequent state of mind will fade away and I would have a chance to save my marriage. I would drag my feet, get good conditions in a legal separation agreement and do my best to woo her back. Then when her affairs falls apart, as it is now, she will have a safe place to land and you can recover your marriage.

if you decide to do the latter, we can help you. There are no guarantees, but your marriage has a much better chance of surviving than does her affair.

I've got $100 saying that it won't go as smoothly as you think it will. Sure, you agreed to all that today, but what is keeping her from pushing for more when she feels like she's entitled to it. You give a wayward and inch and they'll take a mile.

She's "doing" another woman's husband - your wife is a bad woman to THAT other wife!

If you don't want to save your M thats up to you. She gave you a get out of jail free card when she had the A. Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll find someone who loves you like you love them, just as I have. However, it's always the kids who suffer, but again thats not your fault.

If this is what you want then I advise you to get a deal on paper ASAP. As soon as your WW sees you're moving on and she can't manipulate you anymore she will want MORE! Exactly as my exWW did. They never like it when they can't control you anymore.

Hi solitario,

Since you've expressed this...it must be that the affair was a blessing in disguise for you. You really need to make sure that you talk to an attorney and get everything down pat legally so that she doesn't change her mind and try to alter things.

Charlotte

All her 7 brothers and sisters and his father have a long history of affairs. She was the only one "invicted" until now. We'll supposedly sign the papers at 7:00 p.m. Of course I'm giving her a sense that everything will be the same. One of her sisters lives that way, separated from her husband but he still supports her and many times stays with her. I assume that's the image my W has.

BTW, the bomb in her job exploded just today. It seems they had a national supervision precisely the day I send the letter. My wife is aiming to ask a permission until they change her to another workplace. This would be good (for her, at least).

Also, maybe I'm in a mistake, but I don't see a D as something definitive. Maybe she'll change, maybe not, but I'm sure this will show her what she is losing, along a good plan B (which will be difficult to me, but I know that is what I should do, both for the little hope she changes, and for myself).

Uhhhh...what exactly is she losing?

She gets to keep sleeping with two men, she gets to live in a house you're giving her and most likely paying for, she gets to pretend she's a good mother, she gets to teach her kids it's ok to be immoral - you still get good stuff when you cheat, and she gets to keep working with OM.

Hmmm. Yeah, you really did a good one on her.

:RollieEyes:

catperson: she wasn't going to sleep with me anymore. We both paid the house, and it will become our children's property.

I don't see the situation as you, but I thank you for your comments. Of course you try me to don't make a fool of myself. Please don't stop saying me what you think.

The situation is like this: She seems to have changed ideas after she saw I firmly sign the divorce petition. Usually I just begged her, asked forgiveness, and then she "forgive me" for what she have done. Probably she was waiting for this to happen and didn't expected I signed (specially since she didn't wanted to sign). The divorce petition will take about 3 months to become a real divorce. I can make this longer if I wish, since the lawyer is mine.

I must tell you in Mexico the only valid proof of infidelity are photographs of the lovers in sex act or discovering them having sex. Anything else is almost always dismissed. In fact, due to the letter I send following the sketch you give me, they (either my W or the OM) can sue me for diffamation and will probably win. I consulted several lawyers in this time. It seems her job place won't do anything about this. However, the exposing of the affair to her workmates in very important for her (she has always give many importance to the opinion others have about her)

In the meanwhile, she has asked an opportunity to change, and I'll do the same about my problems. She has agreed to give me her phone, but I suggested and she accepted we checked her phone records together. She already gave me the phone numbers of this man. She also gave me her email and MSN passwords. She asked a permission for not working this days, and says will avoid any non-work related contact with this man in the days remaining until her change of clinic. I also assume the OMW will do her part. My W is supported in this NC by her real friends. She also distanced herself from the friend who supported the affair. We all will move to the other house, but she will buy anything, because if this doesn't work she is the one who will remain there. I will also remain calm and under control of myself. Already subscribed to a gym and will take an impulse control course.

I see this as a time to see if she really changed, and with a convenient way to leave if she doesn't. I've friends who will help me check her.

soliario, this is a good start, but I have to tell you that continued contact with the OM will make recovery impossible. This agreement basically sets her up to continue to her affair and keep you in tow. She will be in a perpetual state of withdrawl because she will be triggered every time she sees him. You are facing YEARS of on-again, off again affair. We have people on this forum who are dealing with 5, 10, 12 year affairs from ignoring this advice.

All you have done here is change the name of her affair to "non-work related contact." Do you think that would work for an alcoholic to continue drinking but just changing the name of his drinks to "business" drinks?

Every day you will have to wonder if today is the day that the affair resumes, which will keep you in constant anxiety. And it will happen.

It is your life, soliario, but I am telling you emphatically that your marriage will never recover as long as she goes to work with her OM every day and is triggered.

This was written by one of our FORMER wayward wives, lifechoice, who is married to a doctor and is now in a recovered marriage:

No contact, lifechoice http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659249&fpart=3

Every time I read where a WS is still working with the AP I cringe because I know exactly where things are headed. I know I said this before, but I only worked 6 days a month and after I ended the A, of the 6, we maybe worked together 1 or 2. When I ended the A it brought relief and neither FOM nor I wanted the A any longer, but regardless I was hooked. Just seeing his car in the parking lot, his name on an work email, or anything related to him kept me hooked.

I never knew ahead of time if I was going to be working with him. If I pulled into the parking lot and saw his car I would feel happy and sad at the same time and if his car was not there I would feel relief and sad at the same time.

My therapist told me to journal and after I confessed the stuff in there just makes me shake my head. Now when I read the stuff I did, said, etc it makes me sick to my stomach. I honestly believed I was on my best behavior because we were not crossing any inappropriate lines or so we thought. Now I can "see" exactly what happened and how it fed my addiction to the A. All those "professional" conversations that had bits and pieces of non-professional idle chit chat, facial expressions, body language, the unnecessary walk-by's, the acknowleging everyone but him days, etc where so harmful. And then my poor H would get to hear all about it because I was being open and honest. I have no idea why he didn't leave me because of what I put him through.

In a sec I will add a snippet from my journal and a prime example of why FAP's cannot stay working together. I hadn't seen my FOM in who knows how long. Docp had recently asked for all the details of the A and I was a complete nervous wreck. When I got to work, FOM was there, I was having a really bad day and to top it off was exposed to TB by a patient. The TB deal was the straw that broke the camels back. I had a meltdown in my FOM's office and almost passed out. I asked him if I could sit for a second and that second of sitting lead to a conversation we never should have had.

We talked about Docp's and his W's reaction, how we all were coping, how stupid and weak we were etc, etc. Even sitting here now I remember the feeling I had and KNEW we should not have been having that conversation, but it was making me feel better when I felt like crap. What I didn't realize was I had just had a big dose fed to my addiction and the whole cycle started again.

Here is the snippet from my journal: (I changed names of course)

"It felt good to talk to him and clear a lot of this up. He even mentioned it was nice that we were able to talk and I feel like he meant it, not in an appropriate way, just a friendly way. (Ah, this from the person who has been avoiding talking to me forever) I felt like I was talking to my 'old friend" the way it was for years before we messed everything up. I told Docp about the whole conversation. He was ok with this conversation, but said he wouldn't be really happy if we started talking all the time. duh!!!!!! I just said I understand and didn't plan on talking to him about anything that wasn't work related."

OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK.

I had all this going on and I rarely saw my FOM, can you just imagine what is going on when people are seeing each other every day?

Anyway back to NC, I'm not sure if I simply missed it before, but it seems lately we have more who are willing to allow the WS to continue working with the AP and have a zillion and one excuses on why it's OK. I'm never surprised when they find out the A is still ongoing though because I could tell them the details of what is going on during the work day when the WS honestly feels they are on their best behavior.


Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Thanks for your comments. She will change job place at Dec 15th or Jan 1st. This means she will work in another building, in another different place, even when for the same company. Personal from different clinics don't visit nor works with each other, with exception from the directors, of course. They are also members of a Physician Society, and they could see in the meetings, even when OM usually goes with her wife (she's also a physician). There are not groupal meetings in her company, except for the annual "doctor's dance", I know he doesn't go to this, and I always go with her.

Oh ok, that means they will only be triggered at the occasional meeting. Just enough to keep the feelings perpetually alive. And they will have the opportunity to act on those feelings since they will be just one building away.

OK, I get your point. She has to leave that Society. Both clinics are in very distinct points of the city.

She MUST change jobs if you want to save the marriage. And I wouldn't make sudden decisions right now.

You said the marriage before the affair was mostly happy. You could end up with a marriage that is much better than you ever dreamed, but not if you don't take your time on the divorce.

WW needs to not work for same company as OM. Different buildings does not cut it. Rare contact is not No contact. Every little bit of NC keeps the WS addicted to the OP.

It seems this relationship was rather quick. We talked, and it seems my W's mother died in Oct 5th, then the OM started seeming to care about her, they went to eat together several times, and by Oct 23 +-2 days they had sex, supposedly once. She confessed me Oct 28th, and continued an EA one month more, until I discovered who was the OM and exposed them. Does this quick evolution (two months from the begining to this day) from workonly-EA-PA say anything about our probabilities of R?

Well, if she's telling the truth, it may be good for your marriage. Ask her to take a polygraph.

But she will still have to never see him again.