Hi Schoolbus;

I was wondering if you could decode an email communication we received from my brother's OM?

Here is the whole backstory:

My brother met WW around 2000 when she called in to the radio station where he was a DJ. They started dating, and eventually moved in together.

S (brother, age 41 now) had lots of trouble keeping jobs. Partly because the industry he choose (radio) didn't pay well and required lots of moving around. Once he met J (WW, age 29 now) he didn't want to move around anymore. So he just dabbled in jobs and I would have to guess that he's probably had over 50 different jobs, none of them lasting more than a few months.

J was always a hard worker and supported the 2 of them financially. She wanted to get married so badly. She had the wedding dress hanging in the closet for several years.

S and J had this dream of moving to FL and owning some land. They did lots of research and planning. They sold the townhouse they had bought together and moved to Florida in 2005.

They lived in an apartment and worked really hard on their "dream". J had a job, and S worked on their land. Clearing it, putting in well and septic, building a shed and deck, etc. They bought a mobile home to put on their land. J was busy planning their wedding. S had short term jobs that never lasted, but stayed busy working on their home.

Finally these projects were done -- they got married! Beautiful ceremony on the beach. Everyone was so happy for them.

*************

10 months later -- she left.

They had an argument that had escalated to physical violence. S admits that for several weeks he had been moody, and crabby about turning 40 in July. J was acting moody and crabby also -- which S attributed to PMS.

On this particular day in August (2007) they had an argument over something trivial. Neither would back down. J slapped S, and S kicked J. J got in her car and left. S has not seen her since.

S was frantic over the next few days. He tracked her through credit card usage, and could determine that she was travelling back to ND to her parents. She had abandoned her car several states away and had rented a car. He could see from gas purchases etc where she was headed. He was worried sick about her. My mother received an email from her that said she left because S was abusive (actually, I would love to have you read that one too!)

She wouldn't answer her cell phone, he tried calling her friends, her parents. He was desperate to apologize and try to set things right. They had one phone conversation around October of 2007. All she would say is that he never worked and he didn't want to have a baby, then the cell phone battery died and he has not spoken to her since.

He would try to reach out via email, sending flowers to her parents house, etc. But other than that one brief phone call, there was no explanation to why she left.

S was left with lots of questions and a lot of time on his hands. It didn't take long to find OM. A college boy that J worked with.

S found OM's mother, and stopped by her house -- found out OM was indeed traveling with J but due back to college in Tallahassee soon.

During the one phone call in October, S told J that he would be going to his son's wedding (S had a child out of wedlock with his high school girlfriend....his reason for never wanting more children) J broke into the house that weekend and took belongings.

J then served S with divorce papers on Christmas. Along with a bunch of interogatorries to be completed. He finds a lawyer and does his share of paperwork. Her forms come back with no information. This has been dragging on for over a year.

Ironically when they moved to Florida they bought the land for cash. In my brothers name only. They bought the mobile home in her name only (with a large loan). They have no marital property. All of this was done before they got married.

So she is stuck with a loan payment on a property she has abandoned. S can't understand why she is dragging her feet on the divorce.

Finally an interogatory comes back notorized in ND. So S is really puzzled on where she is living, and whether or not she is even a legal FL resident.

On Thanksgiving weekend, I called her parents house pretending to be a friend of hers. Her mother barely speaks English but was able to tell me that J was NOT home for the weekend, but had been there to visit in August -- with her beautiful baby girl, that she had on May 21st, 2008.



I shared this information with S and other family members.
It came as quite a shock to all of us.

My daughter (19) got curious and looked up this college boy on facebook. She sent a "friend request" hoping he wouldn't know who she was. She wanted to see if he had posted any information or pictures of this baby.

She got back a very lengthy email.

Actually -- if you are willing I would love to have you analyze the email from WW back when she first left -- and the newest one from OM.

Let me know and I will post them!

please post them here

Here is the one from OM regarding my daughters "friend" request...

Dear XXX,

I could always use a great story. Here's one for you and your family:

About a year and a half ago a friend at work told me she was periodically being physically abused by her husband. She felt she had no way out. How terrible, right? I told her there's always a way and if it happens again I'll help anyway I can.

One week before I was going to move I got a frantic call from my friend. It was something along the lines of he threw me on the ground and kicked me in the rib cage a bunch. I met her at a gas station. Sure enough her ribcage was all bruised up.

Instead of going to the police J decides to go to her parents' house in North Dakota, I think you may have spoken with her mother on the phone before. I drive her there and return to Florida to start college. While there, your mom sends J a great email about how the marital issues are half J's fault. Great huh? A jobless loser that just goes to the gym everyday and takes your paycheck to pay his gym fees, attacks you and its half your fault. I hope your mom can know the fun of that situation some day. Maybe one day you'll have a husband that beats you, wouldn't that be ironic?

But I digress. J decides that there is no future with S on account of the abuse and moves back to XXX to make divorce arrangements. Eventually Rookie Investigator S finds out my name (probably from my VIN numbers on my car and some insurance20paperwork, ask him about it, he has a huge ego and will love to tell you about how smart he is). S goes to my old workplace and to my mom's house. He probably even tracks down a stool sample of mine for fun. He tells someone I used to work with that he's going to "get me." He even gets your Grandmom to give him access to J's email address where he reads email from XXX (is this name familiar?) and other people. Please make sure to thank granny for enabling a wife beater.

I call S and he just wants to be friends so I can tell him where J is. He doesn't like it when tell him that she probably doesn't want to talk to him. I call him out on being a wife beater and he gives me the classic line "Don't judge me till you walk a mile in my shoes." Too late, wife beater judged. He also wants to know if J told me "that he's a psycho" and other threatening things like that. Afterwards he sends me an email telling me that he has a lawyer and that J needs to go sign paperwork. It turns out that going to a free consultation doesn't mean you have a lawyer, as the people there weren't really sure who he was. When she calls him to find out what the deal is, he whines about learning his lesson and that he "didn't think he hit her that hard." I guess there's a magical level that your supposed to abuse your wife at.

I'd prefer not to say much more about her whereabouts as all S really knows concerning her location is that she was in XXX at one point and that she was in North Dakota sometime last year and that she probably wasn't in North Dakota for Thanksgiving this year. Any more information might assistant in finding out what city she's in, or what friend she's staying with, or something like that. Anyway...

I don't pass judgment on you for being his niece and trying to help him. And despite my sarcastic remarks about your mom's email or your grandmother giving S access to the email account, I don't have anything against them as I don't think they realized that S was physically and verbally abusing J. They must believe that she left because he hadn't carried a job for the better part of a decade. Otherwise their actions could have been considered negligent. I also can't hold it against them that they view their own blood relative in the most positive way possible.

Also, I know that this side of the story is strongly biased against your uncle and that there are two sides to every story. But keep in mind that Uncle S is probably pretty biased himself and probably hasn't been very accurate with his depiction. Don't buy into the story that your mother has where Jeanie left because he was a jobless loser. She left because he's a wife beating loser. Make sure to tell him that had he waited a week to beat her I would have already moved without a way for her to contact me and she'd probably still be stuck with him. Feel free to share this with your mom and grandparents. Maybe they can take his story and this one and try find the truth in the middle. Also, consider the kind of person S really is next time you try to find out information about myself or J for him. Think about if it's a good idea for Uncle S to know where she is next time you try to find out. Maybe he wants to send her flowers, I don't know. But considering he has a history of violently attacking her I don't think flowers are likely.

I suggest sometime you and your family look S in the eyes and ask if he has ever abused J. Ask him if he ever physically abused her because of something trivial like forgetting to water the flowers (like the day J left him). Ask him if he was abusive in other ways like those times he threw his dinner and plate across the room because he didn’t like it and then demanded that she cleaned it up. As your family has known him forever they may see the truth no matter what his answers are.

But in any case, I have to ask myself:

Should I be friends with someone on Facebook who's uncle has a grudge against me for helping his wife escape his abuse and has told people "that he's gonna get" me? Now is not the best time I guess.

Sincerely,

OM

I am not schoolbus but I do know that I would have wanted my mother, sister, or daughter to leave if they got kicked. I am not real sure if this is the entire story (1st time) but it is never OK to hit a woman. This is kind of like an affair. The damage is done and S has to live with the fallout. I would like to see the analysis!

I totally agree HS....I'm not sure this story has a hero. Nothing but bad people doing bad things.

My brother has admitted to what he did -- and called WW's father to apologize and try to deal with it.

Its not OK. But I also don't believe that this was a pattern of behavior like OM seems to think.

I'd really like schoolbus's view on WW's letter too -- but I have to get that tomorrow. I have it at home.

She was obviously banging OM before the Big Fight.

Abuse is never OK, but adultery is never justified.

They're probably better off in different states.

OM just another in a long line feminine hygeine products, generally purchased in bags.

Well, don't go looking for him over on MY aisle!! :MrEEk:

tl

Counting backwards 38 weeks from May 21st, 2008 + possible extra time for first baby delivery leads to middle of August 2007.

Is there any possibility that your brother is the father of the baby?

Are they divorced?

And even though I think that a woman should never stay with a man who beats her I think that it is quite possible for a WW to play the abuse card to get the sympathies on her side.

I'm interested to see the analysis too.

And let's keep in mind, except for one instance of W hitting H, THEN H striking back (both of them wrong) the ONLY evidence we have of abuse is coming from OM, a liar by his very definition.

You call the boy 'OM', but what evidence do you have that there was a physical relationship? Are you going by the birth of the baby? As has been suggested, the timing makes it possible that the baby is your brother's, presumably?

The letter from the college boy says nothing about a child. Do you think that J has kept the fact from the boy, or that he is simply not telling your daughter about it?

The bruises on J's chest that he mentions - if that comes from kicking then I think J did the right thing in leaving. Or do you think she inflicted them herself, or that the college boy is lying?

TA

We very carefully looked at those dates. This baby is not my brothers. The dates simply don't work, even stretching in all directions.

When I made that phone call over Thanksgiving that was the first mention of a baby. Quite a shock. Although him not wanting children was one of the primary reasons she gave him for leaving. She did not mention the pregnancy in her divorce filing. We question whether or not her attorney is even aware of it. In FL a divorce cannot be finalized if the wife is pregnant. So that explains some of the feet dragging.

On this board we see so many woman playing the victim card to gain OM's sympathy. I'm always amazed at these claims of abuse. If your husband is abusive, do you REALLY do the SINGLE most dangerous thing to attract his fury? Most of the time these claims are false to gain OM's sympathies so he will be the hero.

Thats what I see here.

Its prevelant in OM's letter, but it was also communicated in the email SIL sent to my mother when she left. That's why I want to include that here as well. And it just didn't ring true.
There was something very "off" in her communication.

Not to mention that she desperately wanted to be married to my brother. Why on earth would she have gone through this whole wedding sham only to leave a few months later?

According to her the reasons for leaving were:
1. physical abuse
2. not hanging onto jobs
3. not wanting children
From what she is telling OM, and what she said to my mother...all of those things were true BEFORE the wedding. Why marry him if that was true?

And this is a pattern with her. She did the exact same thing to the long term boyfriend previous to dating my brother. Cheated, disappeared and refused contact. (no...she did not cheat with my brother....)

So...working on gettig WW's letter posted too.

I hate to break this to you, Lexxy, but this man is not lying to you.

He is telling you the truth.


Your uncle abused J. This man's email does not show anything but honesty, harsh and difficult as it is presented.

He is very angry and unlikely to reveal anything that would put J in danger. He has also told you what you probably know to be the truth - that J left after an abusive relationship went worse and collapsed. The fact that you state yourself that your uncle could not hold a job is one way to confirm her side of the story. This man also confirms it. So you have that much as truth verified.

Next, you have the verification of the fact that this man says J was kicked, your uncle says he kicked her, and J says he kicked her. Your uncle would certainly make the story sound as "gentle" as possible. Sorry, but I have been on the receiving end of these gentle kicks. Your uncle is a classic abuser. He makes it sound like the woman started it, he HAD to kick her, and it wasn't as bad as "all that".

It was bad. She LEFT. Trust me, women RARELY leave on the first kick. I've been there, and they don't.


The most interesting part this man places in the email is the part about you asking your uncle yourself - but then he goes on to tell you that you already know the answer.

This is where he tells me that he is not lying, more than any other statement. He tells you to step outside of yourself and then look deeply at your uncle - deeply inside of what you already know. Somehow this man is a very astute judge of people.


He is also not a liar.


I would say that whatever happened between S and J, you should probably question whatever your uncle is telling you. Chances are, he is lying to you to cover up extremely bad behavior, and probably criminal abuse of his wife.


SB

Lexxy,

I can explain the desire to marry someone who abuses you.

I wanted badly to marry a man who abused me. I thought that if we were married, something would change.

I truly believed this. I was very insecure in the relationship. Just "dating" was making for many arguments, and it made my unstable relationship with him even more unstable. I was in the situation of being physically and emotionally abused. I was not sure from day to day how this man felt about me. He kept me on a string, for lack of a better way to describe it.

I thought that if he married me, that would show me for sure that he loved me. That would mean that I was worth something, that I meant something to him. He would make me his wife, and that would mean that the relationship, and I, were of value to him - making me of value. I would be above "girlfriend" status, and maybe above punching status. Things would change, and I would be much more secure. I would be married, and wouldn't have to worry about him leaving me all the time.

I know it's illogical. Staying with the idiot was illogical. I did that too, for three years.

SB

Thanks Schoolbus -- that doesn't surprise me at all.
I am certain that he wholeheartedly believes this to be the truth. I'm just not certain that it actually IS the truth.
Thats why I'd like to post HER letter also.
I should have that shortly.

I was curious tho if you picked up on any anger or hostility from him because he was "trapped" or tricked into this situation. Here he is, 22 or 23 years old with a baby with a married woman.

I thought he was telling the truth too. When I was in an abusive relationship, I didn't tell friends or family, but DID confide in a woman at work. She offered to help me get out.

Of course, since this is an opposite sex thing, she could have been lying. I thought that especially because the OM says that he would have been gone in a week, leaving her no way to contact him.

On the other hand, everyone admits that she was kicked, and "he didn't know he kicked her that hard".

The other thing that was a red flag for me was that he was "worried" about her, but was almost stalking her, by following the credit card receipts, questioning friends and family.

I don't know, but tend to lean toward believing OM or at least believing that HE believes this to be the truth.

Here are the letters from J when she left....


Hi X,
I just want to let you know what's going on. I'm not sure if you talked to S or not but on Wednesday night I left. I'm okay now, I'm in a safe place. I'm really sorry to be telling you all this, but I think I did the right thing. After I got home from work on Wednesday, S let me know I left the water on outside when really it was him, I just admitted it because it was my responsibility to water the plants. So of course he started yelling at me. He yelled at me the day before for not telling him what was for supper. So that made him even more mad. This is the part you are not familiar with. He yelled so loud he scared the cat, he pounds his fists on the table and knocked his water on the floor, screamed at me to clean it up and as I am on my hands and knees cleaning it up he kicks me over and starts stomping on me saying "what do you got to say know you f***ing idiot!!?", so I got up off the floor and left. I left everything, and I'm not looking back. I'll be honest with you, this wasn't the first time, and if I stayed it wouldn't have been the last. Normally I would have gotten up and apologized and tried to make him feel better. Well his anger problem has gotten a lot worse. The screaming was getting to be daily. I have thought about running away for a long time. And honestly X, S has not (really) worked for five or more years. He either sits at home or works out. When we were in XXX he didn't pay rent after he lost his job, so imagine the mortgage payments. No wonder we almost lost the house. I have financially supported him pretty much the whole time. Things weren't changing here and I just kept hoping they would. "Well, maybe this week he'll get a job, or this month, well maybe this will be the YEAR he'll finally find some work." Those were my hopes. Well, I really wanted things to work but do you think that is how I should live? Worrying about if he's mad or if he'll start working? I don't want to be scared anymore. I really love you guys and I appreciate everything you've ever done for me, maybe that's why I put up with things for so long. I don't want him to know where I am, and I don't know if I even want you mentioning this letter. He's tried to contact me but I don't want to go back, ever. I'll keep in touch with you if it's alright.

I love you both very much.
-J


And.... this is the second e-mail I got and the last time I heard from her
.

Hey X,
You were right, he checked my mail, so I changed my password. I'm okay in a safe place, not in Florida. After I left, because I was scared, I immediately quit my job. I knew it wouldn't be safe to stay there so I left the state. I'm pretty sure that S never did steroids. But he has done many drugs in his life. Since I have known him, he has just done marijuana, which I hate. Well, I'm not going back. I'll be okay, I know if I go back to X that I can go back to (workplace). Or anywhere, I can do any job. My parents know where I am, I call them daily. I'll keep in touch with you as long as I can get to the Internet. I love you guys and I just feel so bad. I'll talk to you later.

love, J

I really appreciate all the replies.

If this is all true, she did the right thing in leaving. Although not so much the right thing in having the affair to do it.

My brother has issues, no doubt about it.

I see nothing but honesty in the man's email.

I see anger towards your brother, but that anger is generated from a protective stance towards J.

I see outrage from him, more from a male standpoint. He is a male who is a type who will protect women against attack - and did see the damage your brother inflicted. He carries the anger from this.

The sarcasm he uses is the way he expresses anger, he isn't the type to be a physical fighter as his first resort. Probably isn't his style.

Chances are, he is correct - that there is a place in the middle of what J says and what S says that IS the truth. You spoke fairly well of her - she worked and held up her end of the marriage. Your brother could not hold down a job. This probably placed a great deal of strain on the marriage.

Regarding the possibility of an affair with him - it might be him or maybe a friend of his. Odd that there is no mention of a child. He's very protective. If this is his child, I sense only protectiveness, no anger in this regard. If there were anger towards her, it would show somewhere. It is not there. He is actually quite fair in his assessment of the situation, which leads me to wonder if he is the father - or even dating her. Makes me wonder if she is dating a friend of his, or if the affair is over and they are in a friendship relationship for the child at this point. There are many possibilties here that could be true.


SB

And by the way - my brothers version of the day she left is the same in the small details but of course you are exactly right, he downplays the kicking part, and he says she was slapping and striking him first.


He swears nothing even remotely like this has happened before.

I wish he had written a letter or email about this event.

Lexxxy - DOES your brother have an anger problem?