This is the first time I have asked for help on a board. I have been reading threads for about 3 weeks and I am impressed by the responses and the insight I have read. OH, I am new to MB and its priciples. I ordered the courses but H has them.

OK, Here goes, grab a cup of coffee and settle it, I am wordy...

I have been married for 23 years. I was 19 and he was 22 and we were both on active duty military; married within 3 months of meeting. We have 2 DDs ages 20 and 22, both living on their own. Have been an active duty family via my husband for 18 years. (note: we M, both got out of the military for our family and he returned to active duty after 5 years without mutual agreement from me.

Some of the best of times some of the worst of times...many moves, many deployments, many separations. I held down the house and raised the girls during his many absences. I had my responsibilities and I had his responsibilities.You know the story. However, Great young women are the result and I am extremely proud of them.

June 06 H and I transfered back to the US for the first time not having children at home. We were already strained with eachother...excuses of growing apart due to all the absences etc..tried MC but nothing. Trying to live together was not working well. Many DJs with an empty love bank already in place.

Finally I had it. I moved out. I felt disrespected, unloved, mistreated, unheard, and all the rest. The verbal fighting had been escalating and now was the only communication going. I needed space to evaluate what I wanted and what to do about it.

He was angry, pursued, backed off, made promises, didn't keep them, I wanted him to go away, we were both confused and hurting, etc... the usual cycle in the recognition of a crisis, i guess. Too many threats to my financial security and I filed for a legal Separation to protect myself financially and benefits (Oct 06).

Tried to self counsel. Thought that we just needed "us" time and went on a trip for 11 days. Had a great time being travel buddies. However, upon return from vaca the old patterns returned. I had to return to my own place and asked that we just communicate via phone or email.

He demanded that I move back with him, and attend MC again, and just get things back to normal. His normal was my heartache.
I agreed to MC and would move back if we could find ground in counseling to work from that worked for both of us, or I wanted to D and move on.

We began MC in March 1 07. I was 100% committed to learning how to fix things, in me and within us. I musterd up the openmind to hear and understand, but we still were on opposite sides of a very large chasm. We knew it would be easier to D, and the thought was very alluring.

His confidant through this was his sister. She was my friend through the marriage and I thought that it was great that he talked with her so much. The whole woman's perspective and all.
Well, by the end of March 07 he booked a long weeked to go to the river with his sister. He was missing his DD's bday but I thought that we all needed a break so it could be a good thing.
Well, his sister arranged and brought her younger, work collegue/best friend, to meet her misunderstood and mistreated brother (my H). She told my H that this was his chance to decide what he wanted and that this girl had "it all together" with a great career and no hangups. My H,purchased condoms (that he hasn't needed with me in 18 years)and left for the weeked at the river with his sister and her offering. I know you know what happend, we all know what happened. He had a ONS. His sister was in joy and this young thing hoped she had a new daddy for her 12year old son. They stayed in contact via email and arranged for another weeked in the summer to get together. I was not told a thing and my H continued to have SF with me everyweek I was there for MC.

Continued in Marriage counseling, but noticed that my H wasn't doing the work assigned, would agree to writing his "needs" list but wouldn't do it. Counselor asked me to move back in with him and "bond". I didn't want to because something told me inside that this was not a good plan. I delayed.

(May) He was at my house and we were fixing lunch when a bolt went through me, I KNEW. Yup, I knew. I looked at him and asked, "have you been with another woman?". He froze, then denied, then lied about where/when it was. But, somehow I already knew. I went to the store bought a case of coronas and said "start drinkin', it's gonna be a long night." I told him that I already knew and now I needed all of my questions answered honestly and completely. He did answer with a lot of discomfort. I was so hurt, and so angry, and all the other emotions that come from betrayal. He said he loved me, but that she had all of the physical features of size (petite), brown hair and eyes, olive skin, athletic, and nice nails. She also had a degree with a career as a nurse; Something he was always attracted to before he met me.

I am 5'8 norther euopean white girl with blond hair and blue eyes, and I raised/homeschooled 2 kids while moving every 18 to 36 months for the last 18 years and hadn't had a chance to secure my degree needless to say a career. He agreed to NC, but wanted to maintain a relationship with his sister of love and forgiveness. His sister was not apologetic, but apathetic to me, and disappointed with him for telling me. "She was only trying to help. And it is known that sex heals." Please.

side note: I had a career and was doing well after we were out of the military, but then one day my H walked in and said he'd rejoined the military (just at the end of Desert Storm) and that he was being transferred to WA state for 16 months. I was not asked I was told. I asked why and he said "I need this. The military is the only thing I am good at." What could I say. I was shocked and I believe that if this was what he truly needed to feel like a man, I would have to let him go. So I did. After 18 months he reinlisted for 4 years and said that he needed his family with him and wanted me to become a dependent wife. That meant I had to choose...family or me. I chose family and sold everything and took down my career shingle. Began the lonely life of a military dependent spouse. It was very hard, but we would make the best of it.

I was torn up inside. My friends told me that I had to trust him again, it was just ONS and we were separated. But my love bank was empty before this. I was feeling so done. Family asked me to keep trying..."For better or for worse, in sickness and in health, To Love Honor and Obey" (2LHnO) I was just numb so I agreed to try some more...I moved home with him. We went back to marriage counseling. still no real changes just a lot of talk and sadness.

One night in Oct 07, he was saying something to me and I felt disrespected, poked at, antagonized, and I just lost it. I ran my arm across the top of the counter and knocked everything on the floor (i am not known for violence, I didn't even spank my kids). Anyway, everything went crashing to the floor. I spun around and he told me that I had just broken the law. I told him then he'd better call 911 now because I was still pissed. He laughed at me and belittled me. I slapped him across the face. he smirked and gave me the look of "I got you now." I became enraged. I knew that I should leave, but not this time. I was tired of being hurt and mistreated. I told him that he couldn't see the hurt in me so maybe I would show it to him. I told him that his neglect, and behavior was tearing my heart to pieces so then I punched him in the solar plexis. He stared at me and smirked. I hit him many more times in the side and arm. I was crying and yelling and exhausted...then I was crushed. What had I become. How could I let someone have my power. I felt destroyed inside. I was ashamed and embarrassed. I told him that I needed to go and stay away. I felt like a bad dog and needed to be quarantined until I could be trusted again. He told me no, not to leave. It was just getting light and he would need to go to work soon. I wanted to leave he asked me to stay and we would work this out. He knew I was sorry. He said he would be back in an hour after he arranged the day off work. I agreed.

Two hours later I received a phone call. It was him and he said that he was at our counselors office and that he'd told her what happened. He told her that he was scared for his safety. She'd called the Military Police and that I needed to wait until they came for me. I said I understood and I would wait.

Well, the MPs decided to let my H's command decide what to do. They took my report of what happened and I told them that I had hit my H many times open handed and closed fist. I told them that it was in no way self defense and that there was nothing he'd done to deserve to be hit or threatened. That was the end of my statement. The counselor called me and asked me to add to my statement about all the marital trouble and strss. I told her no, that I should have left and now I really wanted to leave. She asked for my permission to tell some of our rocky marriage issues. Well, the military said I could leave, never return to that base, and needed to attend anger management courses. I agreed and left. I have never returned to that base.

Ok...my H stayed away from me for a while (Dec 07), then he came around again. He is a party guy and he wanted to be part of Christmas with me and the girls and my Family...plus we were all going on a family cruise and he wanted to attend. He asked me not to divorce him. I felt I owed him so I agreed. He spent the holidays with us and traveled with us at 0 expense to himself.

08 starts and he is back to DJs and LBs, me too I am sure. We still don't live together but he drove to me on the long weekends. I am learning to love living by myself and having my own time. I was conditioned for 18 years to be independent. This was NEVER how i envisioned marriage or partnership, but I learned to manage. Our kids have asked me to get divorced and move on with my life because they hate the limbo. My H was making many promises to me and talking future plans, it made my heart swell, and then no results. No kept promises or even effort. If I addressed it I'd hear angry outbursts and temper tantrums. Scarey stuff.

Then, Aug 08, my H got orders to the town I am living in. I was very nervous. He called it a gift from God...I wasn't so sure...His temper had been escalating lately, and his fuze was very short...his skin was very thin. I asked that we keep separate quarters and gently ease into living together again. He said no and that this was silly. We had to live together again. I agreed apprehensively. He move in..

Within 30 hours, he lost his temper and threw a glass through the slider door, shattering it. Within the first 20 days he'd grabbed the steering wheel to my car while I was driving and drove us into the shoulder of the road. He was losing his temper frequently. I was getting very scared. I told him that he needed to leave. He said no...I knew that I should call the police..but I didn't. Then one night we were arguing again about a promise he'd made and I relied on and he didn't perform and it cost us a lot of money...for nothing...any way, I told him he needed to go. He agreed and started packing. I stood in the doorway and told him how angry I was and hurt...and yadda yadda angry yadda yadda. He called 911. He told the police I was blocking him in the house and he wanted to leave. I was stunned. I movee outta the doorway and went to take a bath. He stood outside for 15 minutes before the police showed up. Very anti climacatic I am sure for them. He told them that I stood in the doorway and he felt threatened. The police talked with me and told me that my interferring with his flow of motion was a Felony offense. I said I didn't know and that I had no idea of trapping him. I'd asked him to leave...I was just complaining and yelling...but not restraining him. They told me they were watching me and took him to get a room for the night. I felt guilty for allowing the situation to spin out of control, so I tried to call him and appologize. We were acting childish. We could work things out...etc. I then went to his room to appologize. He told me to leave him alone or he'd call the police again.

Next morning, September 20th 08, H came home. wanted to make peace. Told me he was scared that I'd gotten so upset the night before; that was why he'd called the police. I felt bad and apologized, I mean, I had hit him the year prior and this is the consequence of violence. Right? fear.

He kept at me that I had no right to upset him just because he doesn't jump through my hoops. He didn't not perform on his promise, he had simply changed his mind and it hadn't occurred to him to tell me. My expectations were too high. I asked which expectations. Tell me specific expectations and I could look at it but carte blanche "expectations" I couldn't do anything about. I felt my expectations were too low, of him and of myself. So I needed to hear specifics. I was tired of being punished for vague terms and felt expected to mind read. He said that I needed to figure it out.

He was getting in the truck to leave. I told him I needed the truck, it is my primary vehicle and he has a vehicle on base to use. He could take a cab. He sat quiet and still. I said that I needed the truck but he could leave and I wouldn't stop him. I reached in and turned off the truck. I told him to just go on base and I would run my errands. I took out the keys. Then he punched and shattered the windshield, he jumped out of the truck and grabbed me. He held me on the floor of the garage and yelled that he was gonna kill me and that he hated me and that I was to stay the F away from him. I went limp and closed my eyes. He stepped over me. I got up and ran the opposite direction. I threw the keys in the field, then I went to get my phone. I heard him yelling on his phone. It was my mother...she'd called and he was telling her he was gonna kill her daughter, how I was calling 911, and he'd just ruined his career. He hung up. I saw how upset he was. I knew he was scared. I was scared. He looked at me and I calmly, quietly asked him to calm down, everything was gonna be ok, just try to calm down. He looked at me like a lion on a baby gazelle. He charged at and grabbed me again...He yelled "give me the keys", I told him I didn't have them, that I had thrown them. He knocked me to the ground and clawed for the keys. I just kept telling him I didn't have them and I kept my hands open palm up.
He accepted it and took off across the yard. He called 911 and yelled at the dispatch to get someone out here immediately or he was gonna kill his wife. He yelled it over and over. The neighbors were out and he was screaming. Less than 3 minutes later 5 cop cars came screaming with lights on up the street. My H calmed down.

Well, short story still long, the police talked to me by asking what happened and then a cop asked me "Do you want to press charges and ruin his 24 year career over this? You will you know, ruin his career? Is that what you need to do to him? After all we were here about you last night." I was stunned. I said that I really didn't understand the details of what she was asking, other than I wanted him to leave and stay away. If pressing charges is what I needed to do for that outcome I would, but ruining his career was on him. As soon as he reacted out of control he threatened his career. Plus, I didn't see it coming. He has never been violent with me before. and I hadn't adjusted to the last month in a half yet, where I was faced with physical reactions from his anger. I really didn't know that he would hurt me physically. I felt guilty that because I had lost it on him I planted the seed for this. I was afraid.

They took him away to base. I didn't press charges. By late that afternoon he sent me a text that he'd just purchased a brand new truck and that I'd better know that I was in no position to tell him what he could and couldn't do.
I was afraid that he was out and about. I went and stayed with friends. I called the base Chaplin and told our story,,,that I am telling you now. He told me to stay away from home until Monday morn when He would look into things in more detail.

The next morn, in my driveway I saw a brandnew truck, I checked my phone and sure enough a text from H that he wanted me to drive the new truck until I was able to get my windshield fixed. I felt like a bloody hand was holding out flowers... afraid to take them and afraid not to. I just stayed away from the truck and stayed away from home. On Monday morn I heard from the Chaplin that the militarys position was that it was a domestic dispute and that he had handled it very well. I had obviously provoked it, I had a track record of problems with control, and he had called 911 trying to resolve the situation. They hoped I got the help I needed and that he needed to stay on base where he would be safe. No mention in logs of his being brought in or any documentation of this event. RHIP (rank has its privliges). The Chaplin talked with H and he assured me that he promised to stay away from the house and me until things cooled down. That if he broke that promise I should call the police and this time it would affect his career. I agreed, but I was very very nervous.

Ok, time goes by and there is no problems. He doesn't come here and I stay away from him. He texted a few times that he needed space and time and I agreed that I needed the same. But, I was still nervous that we wouldn't get any help. The Chaplin suggested that I call Family Avocacy as asked for counseling. I did. They heard the story and decided that they needed to talk to H. They told him that he needed to be put with a counselor that specialized in domestic disputes and that he may want to attend a domestic abuse workshop. I have been offered nothing, so I started seeing the Chaplin on a regular basis. He referred H to an additional counselor to assess his chemistry and possible PTSD. Then the Chap tested us both for personality disorders. H tested very very high in hostility, impulsivity, subjective vrs objective, and very very inhibited with submissiveness. I tested normal to society at large with higher than average depressiveness and indifference. Low hostility or dominance. He felt H was a threat to me and to himself as a result of the tests and urged H to stay active in counseling and get into Bible study. The Chaplin was losing hope for us. He asked me what I wanted, I said: 1st a healthy relationship with H, but it would be a long time before I felt we were safe with eachother and could decide if that was possible. Or, 2nd a Divorce. I am confused. He asked me if I love H, and I told him that my heart is committed to loving him, but I love me too and I am afraid of him, us. He asked H what he wanted and he stated he wanted to save his marriage but I needed to change. He currently still lives on base and we are in limbo, stuggeling with how to leave the M or the ability to recover.

The Chaplin wanted to start with Dr. Harley material. I said I wasn't ready...I looked into it on my own and wound up here. H has received the courses and has told me that I need to own my not meeting his needs and that is why he had ONS and loses his temper to such extremes. He says Dr. Harley has made it clear to him that his needs for affection (note: I am the one with the strong sexual need and pursue affection and SF with him alot)were not being met and that is why he had sex with someone else and enjoys porn. He said that I set him up to fail because I left him when we arrived to the states and he it to blame for taking the temptation, but not planting the seed to wander out.

Finally, my dilema...Christmas is coming, my youngest daughter wants her Dad to attend family Christmas. She is afraid he will go to his family and she doesn't trust them or their influences.
My mother hasn't spoken to H since he yelled at her on the phone. She is batteling her thrid bought with colon cancer and wants to focus on her health, but she will not stand in the way of him coming to Christmas. She loves him, but is very disappointed by all of this. H wants to go and enjoy the holiday and feels it will be good for us. He says he is really walking closely with God and wants obedience in his life and must turn from sin. I am unsure.

More drama...My brother will be there with his wife. H has always commented on how pretty she is and that one time he was talking with her and felt a connection. When pressed about "connection" he said it was common ground regarding running. Well, since the ONS I seem to be more aware of his attention towards women and past comments. I had never worried about it before.

Let me describe my brothers wife: petite, very well groomed, younger, brown hair and eyes, olive skin, Bachelor's degree in Business with a great job, and a marathon runner. To boot, Very friendly and happy. Okay, you see the similarities of what he states as his "type"?

I became concerned. Temptation is not good and she would be temptation. So I let my husband know that she would be there. He told me that he will be fine because Dr. Harley says, that Lust "is taking an attraction to the level where u alter your couse and make great effort to pursue with all your heart and being to Hook-Up with a woman". He says lust is widely misunderstood. That he can be attracted and even aroused by another woman and still not worry about lust. He said that she is the type that would be very tempting to him, but he would keep from lusting. Then he added that he knows in his heart, that he has "never ever lusted after a woman". He said that the girl his sister brought was not lust, just an attraction that led to the sin of adultry because of his unmet need for affection. So, he doesn't want me to worry about the temptation of my brother's wife, because temptation is not a sin and he won't lust after her. (just maybe get aroused) ????

I want to tell him that he is to have NC with my brother's wife. There will be plenty of us around and he can talk with the guys.

Or should I just tell him not to come at all? Or do I say nothing? I feel I have been doing everything wrong and his logic always confuses me. I need straight talk and to be lifted by the scruff of the neck and this site can help me with that.

Thank you for hearing my long story.

Your husband is using the Marriage Builders material to justify his adultery. Doesn't exactly surprise me because people even use The Bible to do so. Doesn't make it right. What are the two of you doing to meet each other's ENs and avoiding LBs? Obviously he's not doing too well with the latter.

Wow, he sure seems to speak for Dr. Harley, doesn't he? Again, he is misrepresenting the Marriage Builders material for his selfish desires.

To me this falls under the Policy of Joint Agreement: Do nothing without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. Since you are not enthusiastic about him spending time with your brother's wife, he should not do so. Can a solution be negotiated? Probably not, because I think it falls under Dr. Harley's 'once you find yourself having feelings for someone other than your spouse you need to get the hell away from them forever' policy. Your WH has already proved that he has no boundaries and that he will use your lack of affection as an excuse to engage in adultery. No need to tempt fate again.

I also think your WH's lack of remorse is a huge problem.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, 2LHno, sorry you are here. I don't have the time to read a post so long, but I did catch this paragraph and will show you what Dr Harley says about this subject:


Just a suggestion to get more responses to your thread: try condensing it down to 4-5 paragraphs and posting over on General Questions 11 where there is more traffic. Most people won't take the time to read something so long, but I suspect many would if this were about 4-5 succinct paragraphs.

Sorry you are here, 2LHnO

Dearest BHHFSGuy and MelodyLane,
Thank you for being my welcoming wagon.
I know that my post was excruciatingly long.
It just started happening and flowing. I decided not to revise, because at least I have my story written down somewhere.
Your input is spot on. My gut also told me that there is a potential probelm here but now was the time to ask others.

BHHFSGuy You seem to understand what I was trying to convey about my frustration. Thank you for the validation, that seems to be in short supply in my life, and it is treasured right now during such instability. My H says he is sorry, then he puts his "but" in the way, and the blame/excuses flow.

BOTH, Thank you for the direct advice and the Harley quotes, that was priceless for me.

I told my H that he seems to take the 'Maxwell Smart' perspective of our issues/conflicts: "Missed it by that much" and I only hear partial truths all flavored with caveats and loop holes.

I feel I am at the "whatever" stage and that is disrespectful.

I will try to figure out how to post in short paragraphs in General Topic II. I would really rather just state in bullets the basics and refer to this post for greater detail.

Will that work?

ML I am just in awe of your input to 2M2L. It is that thread that gave me the courage to start unpacking my life here as well.I read me in her posts and I hear you and WomanOfFaith in my head when I need strength. Thank you for welcoming me on. I need to grow up and you seem to have the map for that path.
Thanks.

I would not move back in with him. I would consider it if he went through at least a year of counseling. It will take a long time, a lot of counseling, to break through his shell to get to the point where he's willing to look at himself honestly and own up to HIS part of your drama. And you're not safe until he does so. He can get there if he wants to. But if you move back in, you're just giving him what he wants, so he'll stop trying again. He seems to be very driven that way.

I wouldn't deny him access to Christmas, as it will be with/for his daughters as much as anything - although I don't see how he can face your mother after telling her he was going to kill you. But that's just part of his barrier; he tells himself he's a victim.

Which brings me to the victim mentality. It is one of, if not THE, number one trait of someone with abusive tendencies. By that I mean he has learned poor coping skills, so he learned to get what he needs through harming the other person, mentally or physically. Work's going bad? Find fault with wife. Yell at wife. At least she's lower on the rung than you are.

The reason I bring it up is that it is a very hard trait to shake; thus the long period of counseling (if he wants to badly enough).

Of course there are a lot of things you can be doing to fix your 50%. Ask him to fill out the Love Buster questionnaire here, so you'll know what you do to annoy him; then stop doing them, or at least discuss them. That's the crucial first step for you. You can't expect him to change if you're not willing to.

Oh, regarding the SIL at Christmas, make use of the time to be at his side and really give him some points in his Love Bank by being loving and affectionate and having a good time. That should make it a moot point.

I would suggest you read HNHN, FILSIL, and the 5 love languages. If your husband has all the information, maybe he would loan you a book he is not using. Rotate through until you have read everything. Ask him what all he has read and discuss both of your thoughts. Start very slowly. Both of you will have to WORK hard. Definately do NOT move in together. Start by trying to make anytime that you 2 spend together "good time". No fighting, accusing, blaming, etc.

I thought a separation meant that you could legally date other people (not condoning). He may not even feel like he cheated since you were "separated", or he may even blame you because you were the one that chose to be separated. It does not make what he did right, but may give you a little perspective.

Unfortunately when you hit your husband, you stepped into a new world. You became an abuser much like he became an adulterer. That is all in the past, so I would encourage you to start fresh. The past cannot be changed. If you do want to work things out, start by building a strong foundation using MB principles.

Dearest Catperson,

Thank you for your post. This portion is dead on:

"Which brings me to the victim mentality. It is one of, if not THE, number one trait of someone with abusive tendencies. By that I mean he has learned poor coping skills, so he learned to get what he needs through harming the other person, mentally or physically. Work's going bad? Find fault with wife. Yell at wife. At least she's lower on the rung than you are"

Looking to others as "lower on the rung" is an occupational hazzard for him. I have told him many times that I am not one of his troops.

My opinion is "please don't look down on me or up to me, just look over to me". I try to treat others the same way. We are all on a path to the finish line and need to help one another get there in the best shape possible.

I talked to H this morning about Christmas.

I told him that I think it would be good for him to get the Chaplin's counsel about my brother's wife.

I told him that she should feel safe in his presense and if he thinks he can spend time with her and even get "aroused" and all is well, he is mistaken. I told him that, one, she is a married woman, he is a married man, and any glances or sparkeling eyes or the feeling of being "checked out" is felt by her it will not flatter her. It will threaten her on some level.
I told him that when a man looks at an honorable-married woman with the look of "Hey, how you doin'? You're lookin' good" she will not be flattered, she will become uncomfortable (not to mention she will hurt for me). I said "if you think you can enjoy the view all the way to arousal (the visual of that makes me gag; YUCK!), then you are way way off in understanding what is decent conduct and over the top. I told him that he may want to look at who is the victim in this situation...Him for having to maintain decency and honor, or her and the rest of us (especially in the case of the arousal happening during food prep or dinner )for having to ignore he is acting like a fool?

He told me that way too much is being made of this. He finds her very attractive and has thought about "maybe in another lifetime" or "maybe if we had met earlier, before each got married", and such... But nothing will come of it. He wants me to drop it. He says he felt a "connection" with her years ago regarding running, but that is all. I told him, as he seeks counsel to set up a plan for managing himself,,,I will be thinking about what I think should happen. I also told him that trully, he is just being creepy. And I wouldn't be surprised if my SIL skin doesn't just crawl when he is around. But then again, this is not just about my SIL, this is about his allowance of bad behavior with attractive women.

AND, the man has daughters, for goodness sakes...He would be very angry if he saw their boyfriends or future husbands acting such a fool.

HOW IS THIS SO HARD FOR HIM TO UNDERSTAND???

Thank you so much again catperson, I feel better each time I just spill. Thank you MB discussion board.

Something else to point out,

Another note about my H. He is very physically attractive. He draws a lot of attention from men and women both.

He has a background in modeling and he has modeled for the military as poster child.

He is 46 years old and looks 35 (maybe). He is very charming and gregorious when he wants to be. He is very physically fit and well porportioned.

AND HE KNOWS IT! Genetics can be so unfair. He doesn't flash it really, its just a gift that draws its own attention. Our girls say their Dad is a "hottie" and they enjoy teasing him.

Sometimes I think we look like Barbara Bush and George Bush Senior, when we are together.

I am 43 and attractive in my own way, but I look 43. I do not feel threatened by his physical appearance, I enjoy it. God can do amazing things and my H jawline is one of them.
Truly,I mostly see the inside of him anymore and that isn't such a pretty site sometimes.

Well, more puzzle pieces.

I really feel, in my gut, to ask him to "meet and greet" and then stay completely away from SIL. But I do not want to parent or babysit. I just want him to stop with the Bu11.... and grow up. It's Christmas!!! Am, I being unreasonablely concerned and unfairly imposing on him?

Thanks

I think this is a perfect opportunity for you to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. You'll be there, too, after all. If you back off and let him prove to you it was just a fleeting thought a long time ago, then he'll feel more willing to work with you on everything else.

Thanks Catperson,

I know that I sound resentful. I am trying to work on that. Its very hard when I suffer from such distrust of him.

I will simmer down and let it go as it goes and try to focus on just having a great week with family.

Thanks.

Would you help me with some accountability, Catperson? I really need outside perspective on my tone and attitude. Please confront me on abrasiveness and such. I want to be effective not angry. I want to have perspective on how I seem. I am known as direct, wordy, and humorous...but I can also be abrassive and indifferent (insensitive). I truly want to find the best me and I love to smile and laugh. I don't seem to be doing much of the latter lately.

Thanks for your anticipated confrontation.

HURTandSHOCKED,

Thank you for your articulate input.

I am usually the "fun" one with openness to opportunity.

I have always believed M was not for the weak at heart but for the seekers of greatness. M would never involve attacks from within or an "every man for himself" concept.

I like good playground rules with the goal of connectedness through understanding and kindness.

Love abounding and Semper Fidelis.

These last few years have just turned me on my head. I do not even know who I am anymore. I react instead of respond. My confusion has crippled me. I feel crushed in so many ways. I feel insecure with myself and my identity. I feel on attack and on alert to being attacked. It's horrible.

I am normally a very social person and lately I want to be separate from large groups. My social activities are now one on one events. I feel timid and unable to adjust to change.

I tried anti-depressents...but that doesn't change my sadness in my heart. I have become and done alot of things that I could never have seen myself becoming.

It is not my H's fault that I am where I am. I have not properly handled my emotions and I allowed hurt to pile up.
I want to shake it all off. I want the dark chapters behind me. I struggle with such barriers I have built up. I am feeling controlled by external people and events. I am self protecting and I am distrustful. This is not where I came from. I do not like the reality I have seen. I was stary eyed, hopeful, ever loving and opptomistic about life and people.

I don't want to hurt, and I don't want to be hurt. I am admitting that right now, I do not know how to let the past go because, I do not want to repeat it and I have no control over the choices of my partner. I don't want to be angry anymore, but I have been cried to and asked for new chances so many times, that I am just tired; even pesimisstic and unhopeful. How do I shake all of this off of me?

I hear what you say that I need to do but I don't know how right now. Revenge is not my intent, I just need the security that he gets it and gets how his behaviors affect me. I hope the courses teach him something about himself, but the only thing I have heard from him is all the things he's learning about what I did wrong and "Dr. Harley says..." I told him that after hearing his insights from the courses, It sounds like they were written to me (Dear 2LHnO...) and that he should just pass them my way and let me read them for myself. He said I can have them when he is done, and then maybe we can try to work on them together later. He didn't even order them, I did. He just received them from the mail and knew they were the program the Chaplin had mentioned. OKay...here I go again...another complaint. I feel He lets others do his homework and reeps the gain without giving credit for their efforts. I have always wondered if this is our upbringing difference. He is the baby of 8 and raised in a large CO. community. I was an only child, raised by ederly grandparents, in a community of 700 people and no children around.(school of 58 kids). He is better at politicing than I am and I never really learned that. I take responsibility because from where I came from, who else could have broken the window. He blames with ease, more of a "you'd better be able to prove it was me, before I will agree."

Anyway...Thank you, for the insight. I will continue to try to figure me out. My head is just full of words and pictures and my heart just seems silent.

HURTandSHOCKED, You said:

"I thought a separation meant that you could legally date other people (not condoning). He may not even feel like he cheated since you were "separated", or he may even blame you because you were the one that chose to be separated. It does not make what he did right, but may give you a little perspective"

Yes, this has come up. I would normally agree, except when I filed for legal sep it was to allow H to keep threatning the withholding of money and me not having to worry about it.
My H knew this and we talked after I filed what it meant for us outside of my security. We sat down, in counseling, and discussed what the rules of conduct would be. We agreed that this was not permission to pursue any other relationships. We were agreed we were still married until divorced. We would go forward with MC and IC with the intent to work on our situation. We even addressed mis-haps, if it should occur. In the event we did have an attraction to someone else, we would tell each other right away. This way each person is aware of what is going on and can decide for themselves how they want to proceed. We specifically address intimate contact with someone else...we would absolutely reveal it because we (H and I) were still sleeping together several times per week. This way one person wouldn't make a decision for another person's body without their consent. Obviously, std's would be an issue at the very least.
We made this agreement, face to face, March 1st 2007. My H learned about OW March 17th 2008 from sister's plan and met/slept with OW March 24th, 2008. All the while sleeping with me. To add insult to injury...He had her the 24th and had me the 25th. I learned about it (instinctually) May 24th 2008. Talk about GAFAW!!!! NC began the 24th of May as well.

That is why the separation and dating concept was not applicable in our situation.

Thank you for your response.

Understood. He broke your verbal agreement. POS, no loyalty, no honor in that. However, I would encourage you to try to calmly listen to the WHY. Why did he do this? What made him feel the need to renege on your agreement. Do not judge, do not scold, do not get angry. His honest answer (whatever it may be) could bury this skeleton once and for all. I don't know what his feelings were, but his answer may make you feel better. He can't change what happened.

If you read about affairs on this site, it tells you were are wired for one. Most of us were not separated, and many of us were not in a terrible M. "It just happened." Some need of the Wayward gets met by the opposite sex and it happens. Your husband may have just been in it for the SF with no emotional invovlement.

Nothing will make this easy. If you truly want to work on your marriage, YOU CAN. You cannot control what your husband does. If he wants to work on the marriage, he will. He has the tools. If he does not, so be it. Either way, you will be prepared for a much better relationship in the future (maybe with husband, maybe not).

But you have no control over what he gets and how he behaves.

I really think that's your biggest stumbling block.

I always say that everyone justifies themselves. Even someone like Daumer. We ALL have only our mind to use, and we naturally follow our own mind (and heart) as to what should be done. So in a marriage, you've got two people whose main goal is to do what their mind tells them, but now they have to compromise. AND (big one here) they have to respect what the other one thinks. Because, for that person, what they think and do is right. For them. Or they wouldn't do it.

Now, your attitude may have somewhat of an effect on him, as in 'do I have to protect myself from her?' But ultimately, you have to respect that he does what he feels is right, and you do what you feel is right. And hopefully those two things are compatible enough for you both to get what you need.

Telling him he's wrong will do absolutely nothing. Except maybe make him dig in his heels even more.