My wife will from time to time say some of the dumbest things that sound like she still does not get it. She does not say them often but when they come out - it sounds like she still does not understand.

We will go into detail and she goes back to saying the right things and sounding very remorseful and full of guilt but sometimes the inital blurb sounds crazy.

Example: She will say, "We were just friends. I made a mistake with a friend that night but afterwards, we were just friends"

To me, that sounds crazy. They just met "that night" so they were not friends. He wanted sex and did not care about her wellbeing or the fact she was married or had kids. Afterwards, he wanted to continue the secret inappropriate relationship. How can she still say that they considered each other friends.

Does one just let that go? Accept that crazy things will come out whenever we talk about the A. Do I let it go as long as she does not say crazy things when not talking about the A. It just seems that the A is one of those time periods of her life that she may never understand nor will I.

Sometimes Lost,

HF

My advice is to not let it go, but to keep your response "measured". I don't think its beneficial to have a long discussion/fight/education session every time she does this, but its also not beneficial to give her the impression you agree with the nonsense.

I would recomend just saying what you did on your post. "I don't see how you can call a person you just met and then slept with just a friend." If she apologizes, or agrees or drops it, then let it go. If she defends her position, then just tell her one last time that you disagree. If further, she tries "convince" you of her position, then to me, all gloves come off, as she clearly doesn't get it.

Last, I would think if she sort of keeps saying the same nonsense over and over, it may warrant a separate discussion of the topic or bring it up with a MC. I just mean if she refers to the OP as just friends over and over and everytime you object she says she agrees, but then does it again, she is likely just BS'ing you. So may have to have a "WW, I notice that even though you seem to agree that OM was not just friends, you keep bringing him up that way. That bothers me, etc, etc." discussion.

My W says the same thing about "friends".

I just write it off to how she tries to justify the betrayal in her mind.

Or maybe she is trying to save my feelings. Better than "I love/lusted for him more than you"

After awhile I think you have to stop asking questions and be forward looking. I've heard all the answers I need or can bear. At least for now.

A lie is a lie, no matter how often it is repeated.

She is merely trying to have you justify her self deception.

Call her a liar every time.

Oh, loet it go. It is semantics. She isn't denying the sex. So they were friends too. Whatever. Why pick stupid fights and namecall.

Like me, what does he want to hear? "He was my special lover and once in a lifetime soulmate?"

I agree Pariah.

The WS's OP is NOT A FRIEND!! Once they crossed the line, they are NO LONGER FRIENDS and can never be JUST FRIENDS ever again. It just does not work that way.

My H also used the JUST FRIENDS classification after DDAY. It took 5 months and a 2nd DDay for him to finally see that OW WAS NOT A FRIEND and never was or never would be his friend All she ever was is a SKANKY HO

There has been ZERO contact with either OM since 2005, and your most recent D day (discovering information only not a new affair) was 2008.... is this correct?

Yes, to clarify -- if 'friend' means contact, no way.

I'm just saying that, even with No Contact, I've had that conversation, "he was a friend first, it just got out of hand, he was mainly a friend, I miss him as a friend". And that WAS the excuse the first contact -- "We were friends for years, I had to see how he was, I felt guilty...'

Whatever. No contact now. As long as it isn't used as an excuse for contact, who needs to hear that stuff? just tell her to drop the subject.

Last time she brought it up it went like this:

W: 'He was just a friend. It got out of hand."

Me: "You don't f friends."

W: "But...."

Me; "Let's move on. I don't want to ever have this conversation again, please."

W: "Ok."

Another tack on friends...

Ask the question: "Who is that person that makes friends with the enemy to their marriage?"

Then stop.

I like my line :-) You don't f friends.

But, it wasn't effing, it was making looooooove.

You make it sound so dirty.

Pepperband,

Yes, she has been NC since Dec 2005. I just put the details thing in 2008 because there were some small details that she confessed. She had not come to grips with the harse reality of her actions and what most men think about a woman who behaves in such a way hours after meeting them. She was trying to save herself from embarrassment and guilt(She says she was trying to protect my feelings but I know it was more about how telling the details made her feel).

Anyway, I have known about the affair since 2005 and I knew it was physical in 2006.

She just says some stupid stuff sometimes. It is almost like she forgets some of the conversations that we have had. We have had the "friends" conversation in the past and she strongly agreed that they were never "friends". However, she will revert back and say the friends word again. She claims that is what OM called it so that is kind of stuck in her head. She says that she clung to the word because that made her feel safe as if she was not doing anything wrong. Conversation back in 05, WW "What is this? What is this relationship? I am married. I am not leaving my husband" OM "What, we are just friends. I hope everything works out between you and your husband. I don't want to break up your family" WW "Oh, OK" (PS. This conversation is difficult to understand from a man's perspective in that she really believed that is what he thought and nothing more AND she swears that how it went and somehow she was OK with that.)

Anyway, yes, I will just need to let that go. It is hard to explain the unexplainable or provide logic to irrational and illogical people in affairs.

HF

So, when you are not discussing the past, how is the marriage functioning now?

On d-day and shortly thereafter my W said things that she had ABSOLUTELY no memory of just a week later, and she has a memory like an elephant.

She honestly said WHAT? I NEVER said that!

I think some of the stuff is so irrational it just gets wiped out like trauma amnesia. Like garbage data the brain doesn't bother filing.

Anyway, my advice, and I actually HAVE followed this more or less, at least after d-day plus 60, is to let the details go.

Or, if I haven't followed it to a T, I have choked back bringing it up a few thousand times.

As one of my female friends said who had gone through an affair -- "Why on god's green earth would you put him back in her mind when you both are making process putting it in the past?"

It would be ideal that in recovery there will come a time when the BH no longer asks for details. But I don't think it should be done as a matter of willpower, but rather as a result of the BH knowing all the details they want to know.

In any case, I did not read Hopefuls question as being a case where he was asking questions. It came across as when they are talking about the past, she characterizes her A in a manner in which he disagrees with. I would never keep silent about that. That's just the BH not being open and honest with the FWW.

Like I said in my other post, I don't think it has to be a long winded discussion, but the BH should object. IMHO, stuffing it down only leads to either resentment on the part of the BH, or the FWW repeating/starting behaviors that are detrimental to the M.

I would hate to see hopeful six months from now catch his FWW in contact with her "friend" and her response to be "I told you we were just friends. I thought you understood that because you didn't say anything."

I have had this happen too. However, I have not nor will not EVER back down and say 'ok, you were just friends.' I never bring it up, but if 'friends' is ever mentioned, I will not let it stand. I have read (on both MB, this board, and this post) that a friend is a friend of the marriage. That means friends to both partners as well as the marriage. A friend to the marriage does not put the marriage in jeopardy of ending.

This is like to me saying a Wayward who commits has $ex with OP is not an adulterer. Move forward by not bringing it up, but you NEVER have to agree with that ignorant statement.

rprynne,
You are so right. If the WS, in any way, still considers the OP as a friend, speaks about them as if they were friends at the end of the A, then they will most likely see nothing wrong should they have contact with the OP.

The WS has to look at the OP as an enemy to the marriage, as someone that IS NOT a friend. IMO, if they don't, then there's a big chance that they will have contact, be it intentional or not.

But that's just my opinion. I've made sure that my H see's the OW as the enemy, as someone that is harmfull to our marriage, as someone that was just as responsible for the A as he was. She is NOT his friend. If they ever were friends, in the beginning when they first met, once one of them crossed the line they were no longer friends, they were Affair partners and there's no going back. No if's and's or but's....

Seeing her as an enemy to our marriage is the only way for us to get through this.
Jo

I think thge point I am out is you get all talked out, I know the answer to every question.

If I ask if she misses him, she'll say she misses him as a FRIEND, because they were FRIENDS for so long (secretly from me, of course). Then she'll say it GOT OUT OF HAND, and was SELFISH, and a HUGE MISTAKE.

But there is always that undercurrent of "friend" that she weaves in.

Really what she should say is "this wasn't a PHYSICAL affair, it was an EMOTIONAL affair.

exactly the way my WW is. "we were just good friends, it just got a little out of hand over email."

She is still in the fog and believes she can continue emailing OW and keep their relationship "just friends"

Well, I envy you. It is harder to forgive the physical part. But the NC is also key.