Hello, this is hard to do...

I am a married man aged 40, we have two children under 10.

My wife I suspect is having an affair.

No proof yet.

All the signs are there.

Refuses affection.
Takes her phone with her even to the shower.
She uses the phone as her life line it is an internet mini computer.
I do have the bills they come in & show massive amts of data being uploaded & downloaded during the day.
The phone numbers actually seem ok.
So I guess they work together.

My assumption is based on the fire & brimstone reception I get if I dare ring during working hours. Especially during lunch.

She works for a huge multinational with 1000's of people in the factory. I have never met one of them.

She asked for a seperation after Christmas.

She is trying to be a loving parent.

She has plans to leave on the 26th of December for a mini holiday the tickets are bought. Her mother is travelling with her as I was helping MIL with some of the travel arrangements.

My own parents are aware of this impending trip & have absolutely offered to mind our children.

My wife refuses to even consider the possiblity of me travel with "her family", & throws the guilt trip of "one of us should stay with the children over Christmas".

She stayed overnight with a 'friend' after the company Christmas bash - where apparantly spouses weren't invited, yet her girl friend that she is supposed to have stayed with in not an employee of that company.

She critises me non-stop.
I can do nothing right. Nothing, not even make a decent hot drink properly.

She hates the way I look, the way I speak, the way I dress, the way I am.... blah, blah, blah never did like me apparently.

Just married me cos.

She hates that I waste so much money on food - that'd be basic essential groceries, milk bread meat etc.

Yet shouts at me that there is never anything to eat in this house - (except a home cooked meal every night).

Anyway the bottom line is I guess she's in deep.

I work too. I work very hard. Finish work look after the children do the domestic stuff & always am available for conversation, sex, recreation, pampering her.

I bring her treats, which she barely lifts her head to acknowledge. Thanks with disdain on her lips. Dismissive.

She says I am controlling - she's had two previous affairs.

We obviously didn't do what was required to affair proof ourselves.

We did counselling for a year - she hated it.

So here I am older, not as naive, but still not as strong as I thought I'd ever be if I'd have to face this again.

She says I am angry.

So those are my two major love busters to act on immediately.

10days to departure.

God help me be good.

She's actually enjoying me squirm.

She wants me to prove that I am good enought material to be her husband. She's thinking about it.

So here I am in Plan A

DVR in place.

Help throw everything you have at me please. I mean Everything.

I speak straight, & I need & accept straight.

Thank you.

Ps I've read the concepts & am trying to Live them.

My head is a mess.

I know I can do this.

I need strong guidance, clear direction please tell me how you did it, the things you did that made the difference.

I am dealing with a 'closed' person who seems to lost the ability to care.

How will I get through.

LB & EN questionaires are on the counter waiting her return she probably get a kick out of those more faults, more faults, easy pickings I am.

Do I do one on her??? & actually give it to her?? It might speed up her packing process.

Help Please.

Ideas, thoughts, experiences...

Going to shower now & spruce myself up for the welcome home reception she's due in the door in 30mins (that too can change anywhere from an hour to 3) had to go to a meeting etc, etc.

Funny last night she said she'd to talk to her Mother in person, I went shopping & ooops left one of the children behind, she was there when I got home.

Her phone was soldered to her wrist, I think it's actually growing into her viens at this stage.

Thank you.

Throw them at me all things that I can do.

I am open & able to do it.

Put a keylogger on home computer.

Digital voice activated recorder. One hidden in the home and the other one in her car to catch conversations with the OM.

Get copies of phone bills, and text messages.

Don't waste your time with this on an active wayward, plus you don't want to blow your source (MB).

You need to start snooping and find out if she's really involved in ANOTHER affair, but frankly, after two previous ones, why do you want to stick this out?

Hopefully some of the guys will pop in and help you out.

By the way, do NOT tell her about MB.

I'm sorry you find yourself here. Yes, your wife is deep in an affair; she's sent you everything but a notarized statement.

First question, do you really WANT to stay married to her??

What do you mean the phone numbers seem ok? Have you called any of them? Were her prior As exposed to others? Ignore her complaining. No point arguing with someone who is in lalaland. Put a recorder in her car. What does she do with her phone when she sleeps?

Do you really want to recover with a woman who is in third A?

The first thing you have to do is find out the truth. You cannot move forward until you do that. If this is an affair, bringing that truth out in the open will be ruinous to the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy. Plan A is a 2 part endeavor, a carrot and a stick. Your goal will be to use a carrot on your wife and use a BATTERING RAM on the affair in order to kill it.

First things first, go hire a PI and find out who the OM is and everything you can about him. Can you check the phone #s on her bill and find out his name?

Hey D

Tell us about the two other affairs.
Is this woman worthwhile saving?

General tips:
Calmness is always an asset. Don't look desperate.
Don't be "sorry", instead find out how you can improve.
Keep posting here. Not only are the posters experienced but it helps to clarify one's thoughts.
Don't try to educate her.
Don't harp about OM.
Is there anyone at her work that you can enlist to help find OM?
Can you afford a PI?

I presume that you have read or are reading SAA.

Just for starters...

Give her the D as long as you get the kids!

Hi God Thanks a million, sure is good to get some feedback.

Well got hold of the old nov bill, nada to declare every single ctc works out as legit.

No convos of any lenght. Beyond 2mins all with people I do know her brothers, & our female accountant, & a couple of car dealers, & a recruitment office. I knew about the non family calls.

I was so nervous, still am tied in knots.

She came in 40mins later than expected.

Ignored me completely.
So I practice 'active listening questions'
"how's it going for you?" response "what do you think" angry.
"I'm here for you, I'm interested" R "What the F do you want?"
"I'm interested in you, I'm listening" R "Stop playing mind games with me"

She then went on tirad about my text "your great" & 20 second phone call to her during her lunch break to ask was there anything special she'd like to eat tonight. She told me stick it ahem...

While we sat eating smoked salmon enjoying ourselves which she was welcome to participate in. She stomped about, huffed & puffed, & made herself a sandwich.

Conclusion she wants me to stay away from her while she's at work & unless it's a real emergency don't ring her.

All this infront of our children.

Thank God in a way they were there, I remained calm in their presence.

I smiled & said "Come on honey I rang you to ask was there anything special you would like for dinner & to wish you well that's all"

WARPath, she stomped to the hall put on her jacket & said she had to see her mother about something, I sugg'd call that I really have to go out myself & get some Christmas shopping, or better yet get her over I'll call she'd be glad to come over & our kids can go to bed.

She actually said "look at your father he's a fkin pyscopath, trying to control me"

I said "Darling you are the only one who choses to be as you are"

She said "just leave me alone, I need some space, & DON'T fking ring me" slamming the door, drove off at speed.

Lads I am drained.

Turned our kids upside down momentarily. I hope not long term.

we played games, made a mess, tidied, brushed our teeth & now their in bed.

Keep me sane, keep me steady.

Listening to everyone here thank you

Hmmm, Donal (you must have some Irish in you with a name like that). She has all the sympthoms of an A and I thought that even before you mentioned the 2 previous ones. I read somewhere (not on MB but while I was searching for info) that 'if you think your spouse is having an affair, then they most probably are.' and I think this is true.

Have you considered talking to your MIL about it since she is supposed to be going on this holiday with your WW (is she aware of the two previous A's) or would she not be favourable to your cause?

Hi sorry fairly adled at the mo...

Didn't answer the questions.

Ok last affair was radically exposed by me to immediate family & two close friend.

Get this the other man exposed by declaring at a party that they were ready to leave everyone & go live in the blah, blah, blah.

She was out for 3 weeks.

Came back with an offer of amnesty if she'd declared all her secrets & committed to NC (didn't know MB then), STD tests, become an active parent, regular dates together, MC, & no close intimate convo with men, no sharing of personal details or marital strife with anyone only a trained professional.

That's when I found out about 1st affair.

Spent last few years trying to simply live well & enjoy what we have.

The entire community considered her a bit of a player.

So she's worked hard at turning that image around, lots of family things, I supported & encourage her or so I thought.

now I'm told I never support her in anything, never did apparantly.

trying not to throw up.

Keep it coming you are a great bunch of people.

Thank you Donal

Donal, you obviously want to save your M and everyone here will give you all the support they can to do that. If you decided that it couldn't be salvaged then that decision would be supported too.

You must not listen to what she's saying. She is not in her right mind. She has a vision in her mind of how she wants things to be and she is twisting everything; the past, the present, your words and actions, so that they fit with that vision. This way is obviously very unreliable and totally lacks credibility. Try to practice letting it in one ear and out the other. Don't talk about your relationship, it's a waste of time and unwittingly no matter what you say you will be giving her evidence for her own version of the truth all the while driving yourself crazy. I'd try saying lots of 'I suppose' or 'Hmm, I see' and nodding as if you're listening before moving onto a different subject as soon as possible.

Get a SIM card reader. You can download texts and other things off her phone to your computer even after she's deleted them. Install a keylogger. Figure out what she is up to.

However, it seems to me like your WW has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This is already her 3rd affair, and it seems like you were really trying hard after the last one. I don't think your WW is ever going to change. If I were you, I would get with a lawyer and see what I could do about custody. If she moves out after Christmas you might be in a very good situation should you file first (also, don't agree to allowing her to take the kids with her or even shuttle them back and forth. They stay in the family home). You can always reconcile later, but if you can, you should shore up custody because your wife seems to have issues that aren't going to get better.

I agrre. She sounds like a NPD, although many Ws's, in the throes of an affair, adopt NPD traits. But, with the two previous affairs( very common among the disordered), I think you need to ame an asessment as to whether you are dealing iwth a disordered spouse. Almost nothing changes these folks.
She is pretty clearly cheating again, IMO. She is also an abuser of the first magnitude with the way she speaks to you(another sign of a disorder). I'd see a lawyer and start exposing.
How you are managing to tolerate this abuse is amazing, but, not good, IMO. She is treating you like dirt and feeling no consequences.
I'd see the lawyer, expose and do a 180 for your sanity.

Repeat cheater? Divorce her. Unless you like being second...or third?

Get a Bulldog Lawyer, protect your kids and go for full time custody, and lose this woman.

Third affair?????????????

What's your breaking point, 5 , 6 10?????

Aceept the fact that you made a horrible choice to M this loser and MOVE ON!

Don't let your kids become clones of her.

Salvage your kids and let them know what a real life of love and respect really means.

You're spinning your wheels with this one.

Good Luck,

All Blessings,
Jerry

Morning al it 2.15am ....the usual not sleeping & the couch isn't terribly comfortable.

Would it be immoral of me or disrespectful of me to myself to go to my own bed & cuddle even? Yeah right it's more than a cuddle I want truth be told. Just don't want to be accused of anything & I still have a nagging fear of what the feck happened after the Party last Friday. This is very frigging hard to sit easy with - I'm not clear what if anything did happen. I could be worrying unnecessarily. There might not actually be an affair just one very pee'd off individual who is acting out rather hurtfully.

So to tangible facts.

The Road - thanks for suggs:
Keylogger isn't practical.
Uses a 3gmobile, hand held gizmo smaller than a cheese cracker.

Is there a thingy that would access the info on that??
Of course it's coded pword protected etc.etc.

Frigging thing has an anti-disturb alarm set whilst sitting on the bedside locker.

In the name of honesty you'll laugh I asked for the access code, the response was predictable, eyes rolled, hand waved dismissively, & "no way".

PrincessMeggy
Wow thank you never even occured to me about the LBQs & ENQs being unsuitable if wayward. Snooping activated. Yes MB is now my affair (small tiny miniscule laughter).

KeepItReal
Yes I really do WANT to stay married to her. Not the cow she is right now, feels like a bad case of BSE is affecting the braincells. The person I do love, the person I have children with, the person who I know as great inside.


BlackRaven
Thank you
I've synced the ctc lists so could check off who was who fairly quickly. One number didn't recognise turned out to be accountants mobile no. yes I did ring it & thank God it went to voice mail.

There is very little I will not do to protect our marriage.
If that means pulling my spouse out of the sewer by my teeth I'll do it.

It is more than love, not the mushy gushy stuff.
It is about being together as a family, as a couple, as wanting my spouse to be the best she can be, & absolutely cringing at the damaging choices being made en route to self destruction.

If I can help, support & love while carefully not telling what to do. I hope oxygen might reach those vital parts.

MelodyLane
You show you show real wisdom "The first thing you have to do is find out the truth". Thank you for being centered.

That's where I'm at in my actions. - There is no proof yet.
I'm a labourer. She's an IT specialist with all the latest gadets. Howinever the truth always comes out somehow, someway, & I not going to softly wait for it to hit me, I am searching for it.

The other thing I've to do would be work on my LBs right now I am a non-person worthy of consideration. Depends on the God knows what thoughts in her head.

I would love if I didn't have to consider breaking into her barrier of whatever it is & she actually felt she had to fight to keep me in her life.... (might come to that yet, though honestly I don't think she's in the frame of mind that she'd actually bother putting the effort in right now).

Imagine
Thank you for these -- these will be may bed rock for the moment
Calmness is always an asset. Don't look desperate.
Don't be "sorry", instead find out how you can improve.
Keep posting here. Not only are the posters experienced but it helps to clarify one's thoughts.
Don't try to educate her.
Don't harp about OM.

I've read some jokes fwd to me on the list of work friends is someone called 'homewrecker' & that's cool with all of the CC's going around the work place. Barf.

HR is my option in the long run. They might just laugh though.
Worth a try, if nothing else, get one of the girls from the canteen geenie mack I'd say the see everything. How to find one of those girls. Thought processing.....

Iam
I will do everything in my power to protect our children.
As do most parents. They will remain in our family home regardless.

Tully,
Yeah same sod as yourself, how's she cutting?
Jays you've been through the wringer lately. My heart bleeds for you. God love you & your girls. Not fair, not fair at all. I know you love him, I can hear it in your words. You're getting stronger everyday girl & don't you know it! Takes a strong woman to rear 4 girls, they're so lucky your their mum.

MIL, all the inlaws infact the who town were awesome. I was sitting here feeling like I threw her out, so I lost that side of the family too. They rallied & supported us both, no sides taken which was actually benefical in the long run, just they all wanted us to work it out. That was way back then. They're sick & tired of hearing about the aftermath, op wouldn't leave us in peace either. 2years later I stopped talking about it.

We seemed to be doing all right, & everyone jumped on board babysitting so we could go to counselling & away on dates etc. My own mother is about the only one who has all the details.

Haven't mentioned the current situ to anyone yet. I really don't know what's going on for sure.

'spose so' works well, nodding like that dog churchill(an ad on tv) I can't do it I get a stupid smirk on my face worried she could nearly read my mind I go scarlet.

JMWC95
Naw we really didn't do it RIght after the last one. Definitely did it wrong.

Ok talk to me about sim reader.... do the work on itouch phones?
& how do you turn off the anti-disturb alarm???

NPD - don't know the jury's out on that one, wait till normality returns, we all make mistakes. Some of us just never grew beyond the playground in how to handle them. Her way of getting what she wants is obviously not the best - something that can be learnt & improved on, merely a bad habit I hope - that hurts (the sucks to admit).

Zelmo
asper above re NPD.
I've got the duck in a row.
What would you do in my shoes for the 180??? please tell

Iam & Shinethrough
Did your marriage's survive & thrive??
Cos that's where I want us to be, happy & deeply in love again, watching our children playing.


___________

It would be way too easy to throw this wonderful woman the woman I married with pure love who I chose to create a family with into the debts of destruction, I am in the biz of believing in people especially those who are afraid of believing in themselves.

I am not a victim.
I am here by choice.
I too am free to leave this marriage. Anytime.
Currently I chose to stay.
I still have a deep founded love for the person I am married to.

________

So please throw it at me.

Tell me how to get on & out of these life changing LB's.

I am not perfect far from it.

Judgemental and have been very angry (no s sherlock) that has left my spouse feeling that I am not so trustworthy too.

Help...

I'm sort of with shinethrough on this one. let her go on her trip and wish her a great time. take grandma and grandpa up on the babysitting and plan something fun for yourself. don't make a secret about it.

if your w keeps veiwing you as being afraid to let her go no matter what she does then she will continue to do as she pleases with whom ever she pleases.

she is obviouosly a repeat cheater and it may very well be time to cut your loses.

Yes, the SIM reader works on all phones with a SIM card. It is the little chip behind the battery on the phone.

As for the anti-disturb alarm - is it attached to a bomb? Who cares if it goes off? So she'll be pissed. She's pissed anyway. You are stronger than her, right? She can't pry it away from you. If you want the info on it, grab the phone, take the SIM card out, download it onto your computer, and be done with it. When she goes apesh!t and starts yelling at you, you calmly tell her that you know she is having an affair again, and you aren't going to put up with it. You don't need to explain yourself. She's already proven herself untrustworthy - twice.

I'd also get a GPS on her car to see where she drives off to, and depending how sure I was she was going on a trip with her mother, I might get a PI to tail her out of town.

I think the only way to stop her behavior is to give her a taste of reality. I'm sure she thinks she'll automatically get the children and child support. Challenge her on that and make her think she might lose out by fighting for custody.