Can any of the veterans point me to threads that discuss this topic?

I was at support group meeting last week and, to my surprise, virtually all of the people there who had experienced infidelity on the part of their spouses and who were still under the same roof had told, even their young children, about the affairs.

I'd been told that the children should be protected from this type of information and that the burden of this knowledge would do more harm than good. My kids are 8, 10 and 13.

Any strong opinions out there one way or the other?

Thanks...

-AlexEN

Your children deserve to know that there is an attack on their family. Chances are good that they already know.

I see that the affair has been going on for some time. You probably should be in Plan B.

To my knowledge (and I have strong reason to believe) the PA with OM1 is over; she denies that she is having an EA with OM2 (who lives 1500 miles away), but I strongly suspect otherwise. Tough to "expose" the former and the latter is without "proof".

There is a forum below if you scroll down that is titled: Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn. It doesn't get much activity though. Questions about exposing the A to children tend to get buried in threads that talk about the A on a whole.

I think any parent should always tell their children and not pretend that adultery isn't anything other than what it is...evil, vile and destructive. My children are both under 10 and are aware. No specfic gory details but still the truth. People that are involved in active affairs are not only bad spouses they are bad parents.

I'm sure some vets will chime in shortly with the MB quotes about telling kids the truth.

In them meantime, can you post more about your whole story?

Who has been telling you this?

Believer,

You asked, so here it is... It's long... I apologize in advance...

Have a WW, but the issues seem to be so complex (infidelity, another suspected EA, etc.). What I do know is that I’ve made mistakes, but, based upon what I’ve read on the site, the people who have gone through what I’m going through are probably the ones who are most likely to be able to offer me the best advice as I continue down this challenging path.

I’m confused by the whole idea of going dark (especially while we live under one roof), as that is a trait that my WW says drove her away. Not sure how to walk that tightrope… If I stay detached, it proves her point. I’ve listed some other questions I have at the very bottom of this essay (and I apologize in advance for its length).

It has been an excruciatingly painful journey; one that I realize I was ill-prepared to face. My story is below (and it isn’t at all meant to bash my WW; just to give background to my sitch. Believe it or not, I sometimes find myself defending her, as I spent a lot of time trying to come to grips with how we got where we are.

My world has been turned upside-down for more than a year. There are more twists and turns to this story than I could imagine. If I weren’t living this, I wouldn’t believe it could be happening (in fact, if someone were to write this story, I would label it fiction – unfortunately, it isn’t), but I guess that’s the case for most of the people who find themselves here.

I wish I’d found these forums sooner as I think I’ve made a million mistakes, but I’m looking for any pearls of wisdom I can get to move forward and get out of this bad dream in which I am living… I'm in a much better place now (working on me for my next R whether it be with W or someone else) but still grappling with the exposure and what to tell the kids issue.

Here is short version:

I got the ILYBINILWY work late on the night of 11/6/2007. It shook me (shook me hard), but I shouldn’t have been so completely shocked as things clearly weren’t right in our marriage. I had a feeling that there was something more to it, but naïve being that I was, I thought it was just that – a marriage that needed some care. It shook me enough that I went into my son’s room to sleep. In the morning, my wife came in to my son’s room and said words to the effect of “you’re making a big deal out of nothing”. On 11/8/2007, my wife disclosed a “flirtation” with someone else – there was “mutual interest” but nothing more than that, but that she just wasn’t attracted to me anymore. And, oh, by the way “should I get a boob job” and “maybe we should have an open marriage” (you can’t imagine how out-of-character either of these sentiments would have been to her over the course of our 22 year marriage), as all the while, believe it or not, we were looking for a new house (while sitting on a lot we had bought to build upon)…

In any event, in order to try and shorten this story to the highlights, I’ve finally realized that I have a WW and I do understand how she got to that point (don't know if there is MLC component to this, too, but I think there is to some degree).

She had to get to a point where she just couldn’t stand me anymore in order to tell me what she did. I’ve realized over time that she seems to have re-created history in a way that makes her more comfortable with where she is now. She fully-expected that this disclosure was going to set me off and that I would say, “Well, if that’s the case, let’s get a divorce”. Everything got thrown into limbo when my reaction was exactly the opposite of what she expected. Probably mistake #1, as I was a wreck (and did a complete 180 without knowing what one was then) and, as she later said (although it was “too little, too late”) into the man she always wanted me to be].

The next several months were filled with interactions where she would get mad at me for no reason, accuse me of saying one thing, but knowing that what I was really thinking something else, and being particularly defensive about even the most innocent of comments I would make. Thinking back, during this time period, was when I was probably doing my best DBing, without knowing what it was, as my focus was on being a better me.

A lot of last fall is a blur to me. I read everything I could to try to make sense of a situation that I couldn’t grasp. We still slept in the same bed (still do!) but I was not allowed to touch. She claimed not to be thinking about divorce herself and assured me there was no “affair” beyond the flirtation (of course, that’s before I even knew what an EA was). I led a very sheltered life in that respect.

Her biggest fear, however, was (and still is) looking like “the bad guy” to our three wonderful children (more on them later) so no displays of affection were ever allowed. She agreed to go to counseling, but her participation was “in body only”. She would only reluctantly do the exercises or not do them at all. All the while I was starting to piece things together (I don’t know if others have ever felt the same way, yet despite the head telling you that you are being lied to, the heart still believes the lies that are being told). She has this amazing (although it is now so scary to me) ability to compartmentalize her life. It’s what let’s her act so cheery in front of the kids, while I feel that we’ve been living a lie in front of them.

In early January, I accidently found out that she had a secret phone, I dialed the number and it was her voice saying in a come-hither tone, “Hi, you’ve reached my little red phone, leave me a message and I’ll call you back as soon as I can” or something to that effect. I confronted her about it and actually bought her explanation that she had to have her own phone because she contacted a divorce attorney, “just once”, and needed to have a number for him to call back on. I knew she was lying (she wouldn’t look me in the eyes), but somehow, I guess because I didn’t want to believe the obvious, I let it go at that!

Okay, you can call me an idiot now, but when you’re “living it” it isn’t as obvious as it is from the outside looking in! She became, perhaps understandably, given the compartmentalization and the “flirtation” quite an accomplished liar. All the while, she was letting me believe this was all because of me and our relationship. Truth be told, our marriage was a mess, but I got such a whack on the head that early November night, that I was going through epiphanies of sorts. (Despite the truths I know now, I still know that I will come out of this a better person than I was going in, but that doesn’t make what I’m going through any less painful).

By mid-February, I wasn’t as dense anymore, but I figured out with whom she was having the EA (it was a classmate of ours from College who had occasion to pass through town on a fairly regular basis – turns out his marriage was a mess, too). We live in the mid-west and, to protect identities, I’m going to make up where this OM lived as it is part of a very small world coincidence that reared its head later. So, for purposes of this letter, let’s say the OM form this purported EA lives in Eugene, OR. All the while, I was working on me and wrote her the long letter. At the same time, our counselor was pressing on this “flirtation” and, in early March, she disclosed (what I’m sure many of you figured out already) that the EA was really a PA.

I wasn’t surprised at all, she was shocked at how I took that, too. She drank herself silly telling me, while I told her I really did understand how she got to where she did (I’m no saint) but that the affair was easier to accept than the lies. While it was very difficult for her, she agreed to break things off with him completely (in fact, as I heard the story, he was “angry” with her that she had told me about it (and he even made the same lame joke I did about not ever being able to go to a reunion again!), which she defended because, after all, she “betrayed him” by telling me!

She agreed she wouldn’t contact him for 90 days (I knew right away that a timeline like that wasn’t good news; and felt like I had a ticking clock in the background the whole time, but more on this later). She also agreed to have “vacation sex” with me (oh, I forgot this part of the story; she had been urging me to see her anti-aging doctor a couple of years ago… while I was going through the stress of this whole time period I did go to see him. Turned out I had low testosterone, which he more than cured, making the “no touch policy” particularly hard on me (no pun intended). So, the treatment worked, but there was no outlet for its success.)

Now, I know what I didn’t know then, and the whole sex thing was probably big mistake #2. We went with the kids to Mexico over spring break had a fantastic room with a very private balcony, which we visited quite extensively after the kids were in bed. It was sex and not much more, as she had trouble kissing me (“too intimate”, she said). And, believe it or not, I soon came to realize (even with testosterone coursing through my body) that the sex without the kissing and the “connection” wasn’t really doing it for me either. During this 90 day period, I was, perhaps not surprisingly to those who have been in my shoes, concerned that she was still in contact with the OM. I wanted to believe her, but I had my doubts. I’ve since come to believe that she really wasn’t in touch with him or, more aptly, that he was able to cut it off cold turkey, but that that was harder for her, which, again, in a perverted sort of way, I understand. I think it was much more to her than it was to him (for reasons I will get to later, too).

There were times during that 3 months where things were going relatively well and when she could actually kiss me; I’d joke about how it made me swoon, which was true. The kissing meant more to me than the sex, even though it never got to the point where I could say there was a true connection, but we were getting along very well. The kids even noticed that we rarely fought and would often comment on how nice I was. It really wasn’t a conscious effort; it was more the result of introspection since November, 2007. I took her on a weekend to the Santa Fe (I made ALL the plans, which I never would have done before, including getting a sitter for the kids and arranging for us to have private pottery lessons with a local artist. I even had a rose petal turndown service arranged for us at the quaint hotel we visited.)

I realize now that I was putting too much pressure on both of us too soon (another mistake in the litany), but other than the sex thing, we really were getting along better than ever. We had a few good “dates” in April and May, but she was constantly reminding me that it felt “fake” and that she had trouble “trying”. MWD’s Nike Solution (aka, the Butterfly Solution) doesn’t resonate with my wife. That, in turn, made me feel all the more pressure. I wanted/needed reassurance that she wouldn’t recontact the OM when the time was up, something she was never able to commit to. Her answer was always that she didn’t expect to hear from him (which I told her didn’t answer my question because I wanted to know how she’d respond if he did).

So, here is where the story gets really weird, to me, at least. On June 24th, she took our daughter to camp in upstate NY. I remember that morning well, as it was the first time since everything began that she told me she loved me! Within 48 hours, the whole world had changed. I’ll tell the story first from the perspective of what I knew at the time (and later with what I’ve since learned to be the truth). She called from NY, after she dropped our daughter at camp and sounded really strange to me. I have developed this kind of radar where I instantly could tell by the tone of her voice (or a look on her face when she was present) when she wasn’t being straight up with me (that was what led me down the path to figuring out who the OM was in January and February!). This was one of those times; something wasn’t quite right and I knew it right away (has anyone else had this 6th sense sensation?). I was also in a “checking” phase which many who have been cheated upon go through. I could check our phone records online and I did it all too regularly. I also learned during this time period that one of the nights she was with the OM was 11/7/2007, the day after the ILYBINILWYA talk and the night before the “flirtation” disclosure, but, most anguishing to me, the day upon which she told me I was making a big deal out of nothing.

The morning after she dropped our daughter at camp, I noticed that she had placed some calling card calls from her cell phone. I called her and asked her what the heck she was doing (she had done this before and had promised not to do it again). I asked her if she had contacted the OM. She said she had tried to but had been unsuccessful. I was very upset and suggested rather than staying in NYC for the night, she might want to consider coming straight home. She did that and when I met her at the airport it was, to say the least, very awkward. She wanted to get something to eat before reading a letter to me that she had written on the trip back. Well, that was the letter in which she put “divorce on the table” saying she couldn’t “try” anymore. That it was too “fake” to her and that we had to get on with our lives. I was stunned and did all the things I shouldn’t have done. I begged, cried, pleaded for her to reconsider. I told her that one mistake didn’t mean we had to give up on trying to make things work, but she was resolute. We haven’t been intimate since.

What was stranger to me was how adamant she became about going back a day early to get our daughter when camp was over two weeks later (in the interim, we went to Las Vegas with the two boys, where we already had made plans to see a show and stay in a hotel on the strip one night while her parents watched the kids – man, was that an awkward trip, but I digress). This need to go back early freaked me out and she kept maintaining it shouldn’t matter to me what she does because we should already have been separated as it is. The list of hurtful things she said is too numerous to recount, but is largely irrelevant. In any event, on the night of July 10th she went out to dinner with some girlfriends. I, still being in “checking” mode (forever stopped because of what I found) looked in her bag which she left out only to find Pina Colada Juicy Lube and contraceptive sponges. I felt like I had been bludgeoned but I also felt dirty for having gone through her bag. I was sure her reason for going back to get our daughter a day early was so she could have a rendezvous with the OM.

Believe it or not, the truth, if it is the truth, is stranger (but, I’ll get to that later). I can’t remember what led to it, but somehow we got into a huge fight when she got home the night before she left to get our daughter; I wasn’t going to disclose what I found, but somehow I’m sure I picked a fight (among the traits of how we related before was that since there was little positive attention between the two of us, negative attention was better than nothing. Obviously, that’s not true, but it is how we related) hoping she would come clean. When I dropped her at the airport, she assured me she had no plans of seeing Alex (the OM shares my name!).

I didn’t believe her. In fact, after conferring with a friend, I called Alex that morning on his cell phone, not out of anger, but to ask him as a gentleman to not see my wife and contribute to circumstances that could have everlasting consequences to our children. The first words out of his mouth were an apology, something my wife had never done. I told him I no more blamed him than I blamed my wife or I blamed myself for what had happened and that that wasn’t my point in contacting him. Of course, it could have been rehearsed, but he sounded sincere and made a point of telling me he had told my wife to “work on her marriage”. He told me he hadn’t talked to her since she had dropped my daughter off at camp. Odd, because she said that she’d tried to reach him but had been unsuccessful. Not that other things added up, but nothing was adding up here.

He then said words which struck me as very odd, but which didn’t have a whole lot of meaning until several months later. After saying he was in my town and could have reached out to my wife if he still wanted to see her (which led me to believe he had no idea that she wasn’t in town) he said: “I am not your problem anymore”. So, what the heck was going on? Why did she pack what she packed? I was somewhat relieved, but had no idea what was going on. Was she seeing if I was spying on her and setting me up? Was she planning to go out and pick someone up? I had no answers, but certainly had questions.

The summer went on. We even took the kids to Disney (all of which was completely awkward to me, as I feel like we’re living a lie in front of them). She was, however, becoming increasingly distant and defensive and acting more and more like she was when she was having the affair. I was sure she was back in touch with Alex. She assured me she was not and, given my prior conversation with him, I believed she was not. (I bet some of you think you know the punch line now, but I guaranty you do not).

September came and the distance was increasing, but moreover, the defensiveness and the making fights out of nothing were killing me. Finally, one night I told her I was sure if she wasn’t seeing Alex that she was seeing someone else and would she please come clean. She sat there took some deep breaths and told me that she had been in contact since February with, of all people, her first love from College. She assured me it wasn’t “anything” and that they were just friends. Yet, she also disclosed that she had a new private phone just for him (she had given me the first one when she agreed to the 90-day no contact period).

Coincidentally, he, James, is going through a divorce, too, and, to make matters even stranger, he happens to be living in, of all places, Eugene! He is a Professor at another school, but is/was a visiting professor at a Law School in Eugene! Stranger still, the reason she had gotten in touch with him to begin with was at the suggestion of Alex. Alex and Amy had been talking about past loves when Amy mentioned James. Alex suggested that she get in touch with James to catch up, so she did in early February and once or twice a month while she was ostensibly “trying” to work on our marriage. She claims the contact was irregular (and “meant nothing”) but that when the 90 day period of non-contact with Alex was up, she had this uncontrollable urge to contact James. Well, it was he whom she had contacted with the calling card when she was dropping our daughter at camp, not Alex! She only called Alex because she was afraid I would contact him (which, I did do, but not until 3 weeks later) and read him the riot act, when he was now just a bystander to this whole mess!

While it probably doesn’t matter to the story, she claims she still hasn’t seen James. When I ultimately confronted her with the fact that I had found the contraceptives, she claims it was just wishful thinking on her part and that she never saw him.

Having said all of this, I don’t understand several things. In my head, I think I should hate her right now, but I don’t. Like the old Beatles song, I don’t like her, but I love her and it really doesn’t make sense to me. I can forgive everything that’s happened, but I’m having the most trouble accepting that she can’t/won’t try to see if we could fix things.

I’ve never had expectations that things would work out, but always the hope. It would be much easier for me to move on if there were a hint even of what I would call a “sincere effort”, but I realize that isn’t under my control, but something is keeping me from being able to go along with her desire for a divorce. I haven’t talked about it much here, but my biggest fear is for our children. Our oldest is bipolar, so the deck is stacked against him to begin with. I’m so sad when I put them to bed each night thinking that they will be robbed of an intact family when it just doesn’t have to be that way. And how should I be acting in front of the kids, when the life we are leading in front of them seems so phony?

I know she wants me to be able to say to the kids with her that this is a place where “we both got to”. But, I want to be honest with them; it isn’t true that it’s a place that Daddy has gotten to, because I don’t think we’ve done everything in our power to make sure things really couldn’t work out. I will not present a united face with her if it means lying to the children.

I’m also confused as to how I can stay detached when we live under one roof? One of the things she always complained about is me not telling her how much I loved her and appreciated her, yet, if I understand the Plan, I’m not supposed to do that at all. Doesn’t that just reinforce in her mind that she was right? I look at the defensiveness and subconscious fight-starting similarly. It seems she does that to get me to react so she can reinforce that the decision she’s made (that we must divorce) is the right one.

Am I a fool to think this can have a happy ending? Why do I care so much still? I can’t even figure it out anymore, but there’s something holding me back from leaving her. I can’t help but think that she just isn’t herself right now. In a strange way, at some level, I feel sorry for her right now, because, despite the fact that she thinks she’s found herself, I think she’s lost and confused and trying to refind her youth (which, in her fog, I have stolen from her).

Unless she learns to deal with her anger and defensiveness, this pattern of shutting people out of her life when they don’t live up to her expectations will continue. I fear the same thing ultimately happening with her children and can think of nothing sadder. Ironically, she ran away from her mother to James (as her first love) and she is running away from me to him, too. I guess I’m still hoping against hope that she can have the same epiphany I did and learn that blaming someone else for life’s disappointments isn’t the solution.

-AlexEN

Raven,


Even my IC has said this; and I have my doubts. His point is that there will be a "right side and a wrong side of history" and ultimately they will find out the truth. My counter is, yeah, but what good does that do 10 years from now when the damage to their lives will have been done?

-AlexEN

Hopefully Melody Lane will chime in as she has some links to some great articles on this.

It is very important to tell the children for many reasons. Children instinctively blame themselves. It's not enough to say "there, there, dear, it's not your fault" - they will blame themselves until they understand clearly what happened. They will carry this guilt with them for the rest of their lives.

Children also need to understand that right and wrong and resulting consequences apply to everyone, including adults.

They need an opportunity to be angry at the parent who is breaking up their family due to an affair. They need to know you can love someone and be angry with them at the same time.

Even very young children can understand basic concepts about it. "Daddy and Mommy can no longer stay married because Mommy has a boyfriend, and you can't stay married if you have a boyfriend." This simple statement lets them know why their world is turning upside down, as well as who's responsible so they can have an outlet of their anger and KNOW they aren't to blame. It's very critical.

I really think you need to tell the kids and then go into Plan B.

In your time line you write:



If your wife is going forward with her plans to divorce or plans to continue her adultery, your children need to know about the OM. Your children have a good chance of being introduced to OM if your wife continues her adultery.



If your wife immediately stops her adultery and she starts repairing the marriage - your children don't necessarily need to be told.

And in the meantime think their mother is such a lovely woman who would NEVER hurt her kids or other innocent people. :RollieEyes: It's called fraud.

At the risk of sounding completely naive, I AM quite certain the PA is over; the EA (which she denies) is with someone who lives 1500 miles away. What also complicates this is that a lot of it is in her mind... She is in love with the fantasy of it all... The real world doesn't have enough drama... She isn't seeing the CONSEQUENCES at all and has rationalized everything to be my (or our marriage's) fault.


She has no intention of introducing the kids to him...

I'm more intereseted in this topic in terms of the notion of exposure, if that makes sesne...

Alex,

You have created a good place to gather a lot of experienced thought. Although I have said elsewhere that I intend to tell the truth to the k's, obviously easier said than done. Actually, telling them isn't the issue - what to say is.

I am following what is being said here...

Lost

Keep those cards and letters coming!



I agree completely; I do want to tell them in an age-appropriate way, but am convinced the truth is important for them to hear....

My son is seven. and I think I got the idea of what to say on here. He was believing that he may have had something to do with it or he had known about daddys "friend". and I didnt want him to think this happened because of him or just because daddy has a friend.

I told him

mommy and daddy got married. god brought us together. when you get married it means you share a special kind of love (like we kiss). That special love is only for mommy and daddy to share.
daddy shared that special kind of love with another girl. and now he has left me and you for that girl. that is why mommy is so hurt. you have nothing to do with this. mommy and daddy love you very much. and we will always love you. you are our son. what daddy did was wrong. that doesnt mean he is a bad person. he is just making very bad choices right now. Mommy loves daddy very much and wants him to come home where he belongs with his family.

my son was so happy when i told him because he had no clue what was goin on. why WH left. he told me he gets it and was happy i explained it that way.

Still,

Thanks... My IC was telling me the kids don't need to know details, and I think that's the same as lying to them. IMO, they have a right to know as long as it is in age-appropriate language.


Not telling them something ultimately brands us both as liars. I feel badly enough that I'm party to this lie we've been living, though I can rationalize that in the sense that until recently I still believed she would come out of her fog (which, if it were the case, would obviate the need for them to know). I'm sure some ethicists would feel differently, but when they are about to face such upheaval, they have a right to know more or the lesson they will ultimately get is that covering up the truth is acceptable for them (after all, it was acceptable to their parents).

-AlexEN

You dont know what is in your kids minds. my therapist told me it was too grown too tell my son. but when i explained how i was gonna tell him. she said it was age appropriate.

My husband and I had mutual friends that are married and sometimes my friends husband would stop by. He has depression like me and after what happened he would check up on me to make sure i wasnt isolating myself. I didnt want my son thinking "ok mommy has a guy friend why is it not okay for daddy to have a girlfriend" you know.

and i didnt want to look like the bad guy in Plan b. my husband would say to him "but mommy wont talk to me or let me in the house." I told my son this was because what he did hurt me badly and until he stopped seeing this OW mommy felt better if she didnt see or talk to him. but i made sure to tell him that WH was his dad and I want him to spend time with him, this was betw. mommy and daddy. And that i would love WH to come home and talk to me if he would stop hurting me and stop seeing OW.


I want to teach my son right from wrong. And leaving your family is WRONG.

My son has adjusted very well. well better than you would expect in this situation. but also my WH spends time with him regularly so that helps him a lot too.


Good luck and hang in there. I know it s*cks.

Our boys are 12 & 14 and I told them. I kept it quiet for awhile hoping they wouldn't have to know but they knew something was wrong. They were shocked and mad. They asked questions and I answered them honestly. I felt like they were old enough to understand. They both still get along with their dad but don't trust him at all. The youngest always says he feels betrayed, the oldest is just plain mad. When WH left to stay with his sister for 3 days the oldest didn't want him to come home. WH doesn't know that, I didn't want to cause anymore distance between them. They know who the OW is, and considering she is a bus driver for their school corp. they see her occasionally. The oldest wants to confront her, I have told him he can't do that. 4 months ago we had a "family meeting" because WH was p*ssed that I had told them, he thought I only told my side, he was shocked when he asked them questions and they were very blunt with him and obviously upset with him for his actions. This has been hard on the kids but I couldn't continue to lie to them. At one point early on one of them asked me if there was someone else involved and I said I didn't know, I felt soooo guilty for lying to them. I didn't want to admit it to them because I didn't want to believe it myself. I was actually releived after I told them, I didn't have to keep telling them "I just don't feel good" and them think it was my MS. All this stress has made the MS worse, the stress alone would make me sick without the MS. I have been very honest with the kids, when something has happened I tell them. Some people don't agree with that but you can't shelter kids from life and unfortunately this is part of it. Maybe they will learn something from all of this and not do the things their dad has done. I don't think they will ever trust him again totally and they have lost a lot of respect for him, so have I. He has to earn it back with all of us. He didn't just do this to me, he was tearing our whole family apart.
Tell the kids in an age appropriate way.

Farmwife, I have depression, His reason for having an affair, and it has been extremely hard on me. I cant imagine what you are going thru. Im praying for you

Yes I think you do need to tell your kids. why should we have to keep lying to them and then we feel worse. Its better for our kids for us to be healthy. we dont need the added stress of lying to them.

My son kept saying, before i told him, when are you going to let dad come home. WS did this, let them deal with the answer to that ? not BS.